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theprof00 said:
It wasn't an elaborate move, and neither was the move you are referencing elaborate. The tieing up is very simple. It's not complicated, linkz. I don't like this tone I'm starting to get from you. It reeks of undermining. Calling simple strategy elaborate, calling a change of heart flip flopping, or some vague "I don't like how it all went down" to my confusion over scottie's first game.

Scottie hasn't been causing any confusion. It's his first game EVER, on any forum. He said it himself. His last words reek of butthurt, and he seriously thought he was helping.

This is different from Radish last game.

I would like, but do not expect, a full reason why scottie is a better lynch than SaK, and I KNOW you're very insightful, so I'd like to see what your reasoning is, because I haven't seen anything that is more suspicious about scottie than SaK.

It was an overstatement. But FF is right, it's somewhere in the middle.

If I thought it was just a simple change of heart I wouldn't have said anything:
First you gave scottie a HoS and said you were for lynching a lurker, most likely scottie. 
Then, you turn around and say you don't think scottie is actually lurking, and in your experience someone gone a long time is often a townie. Also it reads as those that reappear after being accused of lurking are often mafia, yet you make no further comments on scottie for quite a while, even though several players quoted you on that. 
Here in the midst of 'Truck's timing' you say you were still suspicious of scottie. For what? Only times you mentioned him(other than repeating j0's question of it being his first game/being inexperienced for the concrete limit) were for being on ST's list of day one people yet to post(which scottie didn't actually belong on since he had two posts) and for saying you'd like to lynch him for lurking. Yet as pointed above you then stated you didn't think he was lurking. 
Next up is the vote for scottie with no reasoning at the time, but quickly backed up by saying scottie has only posted in defense of himself/active lurking. 
Later you reveal the "elaborate scheme" of tying up the votes to flush out scum, but you're also adamant that scottie made an extremely scummy post that was worse than what radish did last round and scottie "really [HAS] to die." 
More "elaborate schemes. Apparently you set up a ruse to try to get scottie to confess. Also now you're saying you defended scottie earlier(I guess saying he wasn't lurking and probably not mafia?) to play along with Gnizmo who you suspect is trying to outwit you.

Finally you switch your vote back to SAK. A move I question is another effort to flush out scum, as I already stated, or is it who you think most should be lynch? By saying your defense of scottie was part of playing along, it seems you've really been leaning on scottie this entire time. But you're backing off now because scottie's last words reek of "butthurt."

 

I don't mind your strategies, no matter how simple or complex, as efforts to flush out scum. However, do realize that I nor anyone else can know anything besides what you actually post, and to me your actions especially as far as scottie goes don't give me a good feeling. It's vague(same for the first/second game thing, which I'll also get to) because I can't describe it any better. I don't think you're scum because of it, but as opposed to usually looking forward to a prof post I've now grown to feeling like I should just skim past them for the rest of day two. I think a lot of that feeling can be attributed to the fact that we've trickled down to 4 or 5 players as well.

On the first/second game thing. When you first said you played two games with scottie and then posted you were sure of it since day 1, I immediately thought that you didn't know that during day one, but scottie could have pointed it out to you during the first night. Now that scottie says it's his very first forum game, I do believe that you really just weren't sure at all. On the other hand, your statement that you knew it at the start and you knew it very recently gives me that vague feeling as I said.

 

Yes, scottie has been causing confusion. Well he would be if there were anyone here to actually confuse. He thought about the results of his words['Nen is town, doc should save him from mafia!' means mafia won't kill him, which means doc can try to save someone else] but never bothered to think about the fact that as a non-cop his words alone aren't significant enough to others OR the fact that he doesn't actually know what nen is and could be protecting scum? Seriously, that I really would call elaborate or a scheme, but it fails in logic so much that I feel it was just thrown together to confuse the town. I do think scottie will flip scum and I really don't know what to make of the relationship with nen. I had thought nen was town earlier, but his vote of SAK has made me lean otherwise. Though now scottie's behavior has confused me a great deal as to nen's alignment.



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Stefl1504 said:

I believe that it is a pretty good idea to end the day finally, and I also find it really funny that I was the only one mentioned by name who was lurking today and yesterday... there were seven players active during that period if we go back to the 25th there were an aditional player who posted more than once... okay... but that does not matter now... if we are lynching SAK today and he turns out to be scum I think everyone who voted for Scottie today looks scummy, same the other way around, also if the one lynched turns up town and then later the other one is scum it has the same effect... the only ones who will look scummy either way if one turns out to be scum are the three people who switched between the two... and finally...what do we do if both turn out to be scum?... oh... and if both are town... we screwed up the start. I demand (lol) that if the one who is lynched today is town we try lynch the other one!

Man... demanding is stressful...

You were the only one mentioned because I quoted a post of mine directed at you that you've now failed TWICE to answer. I still want to know your thoughts on j0.

I didn't mention the other names because I'd rather they show up on their own then pop up because I called them out. You know, exactly the way you just did. There are three other players that haven't been seen since before your last post, and ST was another (from recently after yours) on my list that just showed up.

I see what you're saying about lynching one and the flip being scum, but the trouble is townies don't know if they're on/off board a lynching of scum until after the flip. For example of SAK ends up being lynched and flipping scum, would you say you're scummy because you voted for scottie and not SAK?

I'd say anyone that intentionally avoids the lynching of scum could be scummy, but I wouldn't make it a blanket statement that everyone not voting for scum is so. There's a good chance scum are/will be voting for both scottie and SAK already, so don't be quick to say those voting for a scum lynch are "unscummy" either. If both turn out to be scum then we celebrate for taking down two mafia. If both are town, then that would suck and I would demand (lol) that you be lynched afterwards.



Linkzmax said:
theprof00 said:
It wasn't an elaborate move, and neither was the move you are referencing elaborate. The tieing up is very simple. It's not complicated, linkz. I don't like this tone I'm starting to get from you. It reeks of undermining. Calling simple strategy elaborate, calling a change of heart flip flopping, or some vague "I don't like how it all went down" to my confusion over scottie's first game.

Scottie hasn't been causing any confusion. It's his first game EVER, on any forum. He said it himself. His last words reek of butthurt, and he seriously thought he was helping.

This is different from Radish last game.

I would like, but do not expect, a full reason why scottie is a better lynch than SaK, and I KNOW you're very insightful, so I'd like to see what your reasoning is, because I haven't seen anything that is more suspicious about scottie than SaK.

It was an overstatement. But FF is right, it's somewhere in the middle.

If I thought it was just a simple change of heart I wouldn't have said anything:
First you gave scottie a HoS and said you were for lynching a lurker, most likely scottie. 
Then, you turn around and say you don't think scottie is actually lurking, and in your experience someone gone a long time is often a townie. Also it reads as those that reappear after being accused of lurking are often mafia, yet you make no further comments on scottie for quite a while, even though several players quoted you on that. 
Here in the midst of 'Truck's timing' you say you were still suspicious of scottie. For what? Only times you mentioned him(other than repeating j0's question of it being his first game/being inexperienced for the concrete limit) were for being on ST's list of day one people yet to post(which scottie didn't actually belong on since he had two posts) and for saying you'd like to lynch him for lurking. Yet as pointed above you then stated you didn't think he was lurking. 
Next up is the vote for scottie with no reasoning at the time, but quickly backed up by saying scottie has only posted in defense of himself/active lurking. 
Later you reveal the "elaborate scheme" of tying up the votes to flush out scum, but you're also adamant that scottie made an extremely scummy post that was worse than what radish did last round and scottie "really [HAS] to die." 
More "elaborate schemes. Apparently you set up a ruse to try to get scottie to confess. Also now you're saying you defended scottie earlier(I guess saying he wasn't lurking and probably not mafia?) to play along with Gnizmo who you suspect is trying to outwit you.

Finally you switch your vote back to SAK. A move I question is another effort to flush out scum, as I already stated, or is it who you think most should be lynch? By saying your defense of scottie was part of playing along, it seems you've really been leaning on scottie this entire time. But you're backing off now because scottie's last words reek of "butthurt."

 

I don't mind your strategies, no matter how simple or complex, as efforts to flush out scum. However, do realize that I nor anyone else can know anything besides what you actually post, and to me your actions especially as far as scottie goes don't give me a good feeling. It's vague(same for the first/second game thing, which I'll also get to) because I can't describe it any better. I don't think you're scum because of it, but as opposed to usually looking forward to a prof post I've now grown to feeling like I should just skim past them for the rest of day two. I think a lot of that feeling can be attributed to the fact that we've trickled down to 4 or 5 players as well.

On the first/second game thing. When you first said you played two games with scottie and then posted you were sure of it since day 1, I immediately thought that you didn't know that during day one, but scottie could have pointed it out to you during the first night. Now that scottie says it's his very first forum game, I do believe that you really just weren't sure at all. On the other hand, your statement that you knew it at the start and you knew it very recently gives me that vague feeling as I said.

 

Yes, scottie has been causing confusion. Well he would be if there were anyone here to actually confuse. He thought about the results of his words['Nen is town, doc should save him from mafia!' means mafia won't kill him, which means doc can try to save someone else] but never bothered to think about the fact that as a non-cop his words alone aren't significant enough to others OR the fact that he doesn't actually know what nen is and could be protecting scum? Seriously, that I really would call elaborate or a scheme, but it fails in logic so much that I feel it was just thrown together to confuse the town. I do think scottie will flip scum and I really don't know what to make of the relationship with nen. I had thought nen was town earlier, but his vote of SAK has made me lean otherwise. Though now scottie's behavior has confused me a great deal as to nen's alignment.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

The confusion with scottie had to do with a lot of changing opinions, and missed posts. Like I said, I was at my gf's family's place and only had any real time to post during the late hours.

To explain, I suspected scottie when Gniz "defended" him, but then realized that Gniz might be trying to trick me, so, I decided to pressure scottie due to the lurking in case Gniz was ACTUALLY defending him, but I kept an open mind in case Gniz was pretending.

So, I pressured him as did others. When he didn't show up to respond, I thought he might be actually a townie, equating to possible Gniz trickery.

I didn't notice him reappear, or ff or your posts until later on. Notice that I disappeared for many hours soon after that post. By the time I had written the potals, and found that post by scottie in 'truck's timing', I thought it had happened before I said "i don't think he's lurking". That was a mistake on my part, partially because I wrote the list of suspicious posts at 3am.

By the end of potals, I had my suspects, and some possible evidence on Gniz.

I didn't care about scottie.

I had my vote on SaK, and then decided to even the votes between them just to see if I could get some reinforcement on my suspicions as I've mentioned. The "scottie has shown that he only shows up when in trouble", was merely a convincing statement as to cover my "evening of the vote". Naturally, I didn't want to give any impression that I was voting for Scott for any other reason.

Later on though, scottie made several bad posts. I was convinced at that point that he was scum and saw those posts as a mafia death-rattle.

However, his subsequent reasoning as to why he was protecting nen changed the tone of those posts from "desperate scum" to "newbie logic failure", IMO.

So, I voted back to SaK, who I've provided plenty of evidence already of active lurking and poor decisions.

 

 

I wasn't defending scottie to play along. I was attacking scottie to play along. I thought that was clear.

 

I'm frankly a little sad that I've made you want to skim my posts. I attribute that to my absence and the attempt to flush out scum with the scottie thing. I haven't been paying close enough attention. But I also, attribute it to the lack of people posting at all. Probably none of that scheming would have happened had people been playing and voting besides the same 7 people.

Responding to the final paragraph. I agree again, but come to a different conclusion.

"He thought about the results of his words['Nen is town, doc should save him from mafia!' means mafia won't kill him, which means doc can try to save someone else] but never bothered to think about the fact that as a non-cop his words alone aren't significant enough to others OR the fact that he doesn't actually know what nen is and could be protecting scum?"

It does fail in logic hard. But that doesn't say to me "confusion ploy", it says, "noob townie". And just in case you were caught up or not, I do not suspect nen either, even if scottie flips mafia.



Linkzmax said:
Stefl1504 said:
...

You were the only one mentioned because I quoted a post of mine directed at you that you've now failed TWICE to answer. I still want to know your thoughts on j0.

I didn't mention the other names because I'd rather they show up on their own then pop up because I called them out. You know, exactly the way you just did. There are three other players that haven't been seen since before your last post, and ST was another (from recently after yours) on my list that just showed up.

I see what you're saying about lynching one and the flip being scum, but the trouble is townies don't know if they're on/off board a lynching of scum until after the flip. For example of SAK ends up being lynched and flipping scum, would you say you're scummy because you voted for scottie and not SAK?

I'd say anyone that intentionally avoids the lynching of scum could be scummy, but I wouldn't make it a blanket statement that everyone not voting for scum is so. There's a good chance scum are/will be voting for both scottie and SAK already, so don't be quick to say those voting for a scum lynch are "unscummy" either. If both turn out to be scum then we celebrate for taking down two mafia. If both are town, then that would suck and I would demand (lol) that you be lynched afterwards.

My problem with jO is that he was not my radar and then someone starts suspecting him which has put me into the position of wanting to know why... I do get what prof means... j0 did not conribute at all and that hasn't changed that much, but up until the moment he pointed it out I just did not find anything on him. So I am still quite neutral regarding j0, while I don't think he is of any use, he has not disturbed town with any stupid stunts or other things that hurt the town masively, that is why he also has a low priority on my list so far.

Looking on the situation as it is now, I believe that if one of them is scum every possible scumvote is on the other one, if they both are town I also believe they have their votes focused, if both are scum it is likely that the votes of scum are scattered...



Stefl1504 said:

My problem with jO is that he was not my radar and then someone starts suspecting him which has put me into the position of wanting to know why... I do get what prof means... j0 did not conribute at all and that hasn't changed that much, but up until the moment he pointed it out I just did not find anything on him. So I am still quite neutral regarding j0, while I don't think he is of any use, he has not disturbed town with any stupid stunts or other things that hurt the town masively, that is why he also has a low priority on my list so far.

Looking on the situation as it is now, I believe that if one of them is scum every possible scumvote is on the other one, if they both are town I also believe they have their votes focused, if both are scum it is likely that the votes of scum are scattered...

But that's the thing, if a vote is really one sided, as it looks with scottie, then it's very possible that all the scumvotes are on scum.

But the other thing to look at is possibly that there are no scumvotes on either one of them.



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ooh... and you also asked me why I was not asking about myself... I believe that everyone has a reason to tell that he suspects someone, and I knew at that time that I did not really play as I wanted too, like somehow being helpful, and that caused me to not question why someone suspects me... the problem I have now is that I still feel pretty much useless...also it is not my job to question others about why they question me, my job is to prove that I am town by helping the town somehow... and it is to find out what people think about others and, if they make a plausible statement, to add it to my own list.

The first thing where I might be on the right track in this game is the situation with the two lynch targets - I believe that at least one of the two is scum and since Scottie did, I would call it ... stupid, things, my vote is with him. The only thing that disturbes me right now is how to categorise profs action and you pretty much helped me there... well and prof himself, I know I am going to regret this, but somehow you made him appear "harmless" to me, in the sense of "he might really be pro town"...



ooh... and you also asked me why I was not asking about myself... I believe that everyone has a reason to tell that he suspects someone, and I knew at that time that I did not really play as I wanted too, like somehow being helpful, and that caused me to not question why someone suspects me... the problem I have now is that I still feel pretty much useless...also it is not my job to question others about why they question me, my job is to prove that I am town by helping the town somehow... and it is to find out what people think about others and, if they make a plausible statement, to add it to my own list.

The first thing where I might be on the right track in this game is the situation with the two lynch targets - I believe that at least one of the two is scum and since Scottie did, I would call it ... stupid, things, my vote is with him. The only thing that disturbes me right now is how to categorise profs action and you pretty much helped me there... well and prof himself, I know I am going to regret this, but somehow you made him appear "harmless" to me, in the sense of "he might really be pro town"...



ooh... and you also asked me why I was not asking about myself... I believe that everyone has a reason to tell that he suspects someone, and I knew at that time that I did not really play as I wanted too, like somehow being helpful, and that caused me to not question why someone suspects me... the problem I have now is that I still feel pretty much useless...also it is not my job to question others about why they question me, my job is to prove that I am town by helping the town somehow... and it is to find out what people think about others and, if they make a plausible statement, to add it to my own list.

The first thing where I might be on the right track in this game is the situation with the two lynch targets - I believe that at least one of the two is scum and since Scottie did, I would call it ... stupid, things, my vote is with him. The only thing that disturbes me right now is how to categorise profs action and you pretty much helped me there... well and prof himself, I know I am going to regret this, but somehow you made him appear "harmless" to me, in the sense of "he might really be pro town"...



Current votes (10 required to lynch):

[2, L-8] ZEX: GNIZ, DTEWI

[2, L-8] HAT: (PROF), WONK, VET

[0, L-10] WONK: (HAT)

[1, L-9] NEN: (ST), (PROF), (FF), SAK, (ZEX)

[0, L-10] ST: (TRUCK), (NEN), (SCOTT)

[8, L-2] SCOTT: MG, RAD, ST, STEF, (PROF), HAT, FF, J0, LINK

[0, L-10] MG: (SCOTT)

[5, L-5] SAK: NORD, (LINK), (PROF), (FF), NEN, ZEX, SCOTT, PROF



Tomorrow!

Me post tomorrow!

Winter break has been relatively entertaining, so I've been coming  in and out of VGC. 



 Tag (Courtesy of Fkusumot) "If I'm posting in this thread then it's probally a spam thread."