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Forums - Sales Discussion - Nintendo DS Becoming Best Selling Console of All Time in a Couple of Days

The Ghost of RubangB said:
NYANKS said:
RolStoppable said:
NYANKS said:

This is true, but I also feel like people who choose to invest in handhelds care less, whether by simply expecting the same support from the past to continue or whatever.  Do you need to a top tier team to put out many of the games that do well on handhelds?  Not really.  There are a lot of remakes, easy.  Puzzle focused games, the friggin Imagine Series, tower defense games that would on consoles be a twenty dollar PSN game, etc.  People generally expect less from handhelds, so the lack of mega dev team support isn't a big deal.  Does anyone care the Santa Monica isn't doing Ghost of Sparta? No.  So many big DS games, people here probably don't even know the actual devs, because they were outsourced.  I mean, do you always need a AAA team to do the 146th port of Tetris?

I wasn't talking about the types of games in my previous post, but the impact of individual titles. In other words, games that actually make people consider to buy the hardware. There's much more of them made for home consoles than handhelds. Remakes never reach the same sales level as a true sequel. The Imagine Series consists of dozens of different games and only a few of them crossed the million mark which isn't that big in this day and age of multimillion sellers.

Does anyone care that Santa Monica isn't doing Ghost of Sparta? Probably not, because as you said, most people don't know the actual developer of a specific game. But the PSP GoW aren't full entries in the series, they are merely sidestories. As a result they don't have the same impact as the home console games, not in software sales and also not in hardware moving capabilities. That's the problem handhelds in general are facing: they usually don't get the big games and the majority of gamers tends to go where the big games are. A quick example: Final Fantasy remakes on the DS sell okay, but Dragon Quest IX makes Japan go bonkers.

Handhelds have the advantage to sell to two or more people in the same household, yes. That's why they should routinely beat the home consoles in each generation in sales, right? But that didn't happen, so the great imbalance between handhelds and home consoles when it comes to big games has definitely been a huge advantage for home consoles in the past. A bigger advantage than what handhelds have over home consoles.

So if handhelds are churning out an inferior product, how do you explain the sales?  If they are cheaper, portable, and the games are not of the quality of consoles, to what do you attribute the success?


This is the first generation in which the development costs of non-portable games increased beyond the point of no return, and now most developers can't afford to make non-portable games.  This led to a huge shift in software development from non-portable consoles to portable consoles.  This led to the hugest and most diverse software library belonging to the DS instead of any non-portable console.

Also, I think that past generations have led most gamers to expect experimental games and niche games on handhelds, while reserving home consoles for traditional, boring, AAA blockbuster sequels.  The DS is getting both.  Dragon Quest 9 on a handheld?  People actually laughed when that was announced.  And in the last 4 years, the Wii has only gotten a rail-shooter out of The Legend of Zelda, while the DS already got 2 whole Wind Waker sequels.  The DS even got the first 2D Mario platformer in 15 or so years.

 

So while the software has been moving to handhelds because home systems are too expensive... that's not exactly the DS's fault.  The rest of the industry did that to themselves.  I think the DS's greatest success was marketing itself toward people who don't look down at portable gaming due to its lack of big budget AAA sequels.  It sold itself with Nintendogs and Brain Age until everything else fell into place.


TL;DR
The big budget console business is slowly killing itself.  They didn't just price themselves out of the competition for consumers; they priced themselves out of the competition for actual developers.  The DS is expanding the market while picking up the pieces the old dying market is leaving behind.

So it is a bit of an anomaly that the DS is so dominant this gen, yes?  But you also believe it will be this way from here on out....this makes sense.  So the DS owes a big part of its success to the failings of the rest of the industry and not necessarily its own doing.  Had console games not cost astronomical sums, the DS may have done the same as previous handhelds proportionately, am I on track here? 

Also, like C0rd said, it may be imperfect to compare sales across gens, kind of like baseball stats across decades.  Userbases increase a lot each gen.



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NYANKS said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
NYANKS said:
RolStoppable said:
NYANKS said:

This is true, but I also feel like people who choose to invest in handhelds care less, whether by simply expecting the same support from the past to continue or whatever.  Do you need to a top tier team to put out many of the games that do well on handhelds?  Not really.  There are a lot of remakes, easy.  Puzzle focused games, the friggin Imagine Series, tower defense games that would on consoles be a twenty dollar PSN game, etc.  People generally expect less from handhelds, so the lack of mega dev team support isn't a big deal.  Does anyone care the Santa Monica isn't doing Ghost of Sparta? No.  So many big DS games, people here probably don't even know the actual devs, because they were outsourced.  I mean, do you always need a AAA team to do the 146th port of Tetris?

I wasn't talking about the types of games in my previous post, but the impact of individual titles. In other words, games that actually make people consider to buy the hardware. There's much more of them made for home consoles than handhelds. Remakes never reach the same sales level as a true sequel. The Imagine Series consists of dozens of different games and only a few of them crossed the million mark which isn't that big in this day and age of multimillion sellers.

Does anyone care that Santa Monica isn't doing Ghost of Sparta? Probably not, because as you said, most people don't know the actual developer of a specific game. But the PSP GoW aren't full entries in the series, they are merely sidestories. As a result they don't have the same impact as the home console games, not in software sales and also not in hardware moving capabilities. That's the problem handhelds in general are facing: they usually don't get the big games and the majority of gamers tends to go where the big games are. A quick example: Final Fantasy remakes on the DS sell okay, but Dragon Quest IX makes Japan go bonkers.

Handhelds have the advantage to sell to two or more people in the same household, yes. That's why they should routinely beat the home consoles in each generation in sales, right? But that didn't happen, so the great imbalance between handhelds and home consoles when it comes to big games has definitely been a huge advantage for home consoles in the past. A bigger advantage than what handhelds have over home consoles.

So if handhelds are churning out an inferior product, how do you explain the sales?  If they are cheaper, portable, and the games are not of the quality of consoles, to what do you attribute the success?


This is the first generation in which the development costs of non-portable games increased beyond the point of no return, and now most developers can't afford to make non-portable games.  This led to a huge shift in software development from non-portable consoles to portable consoles.  This led to the hugest and most diverse software library belonging to the DS instead of any non-portable console.

Also, I think that past generations have led most gamers to expect experimental games and niche games on handhelds, while reserving home consoles for traditional, boring, AAA blockbuster sequels.  The DS is getting both.  Dragon Quest 9 on a handheld?  People actually laughed when that was announced.  And in the last 4 years, the Wii has only gotten a rail-shooter out of The Legend of Zelda, while the DS already got 2 whole Wind Waker sequels.  The DS even got the first 2D Mario platformer in 15 or so years.

 

So while the software has been moving to handhelds because home systems are too expensive... that's not exactly the DS's fault.  The rest of the industry did that to themselves.  I think the DS's greatest success was marketing itself toward people who don't look down at portable gaming due to its lack of big budget AAA sequels.  It sold itself with Nintendogs and Brain Age until everything else fell into place.


TL;DR
The big budget console business is slowly killing itself.  They didn't just price themselves out of the competition for consumers; they priced themselves out of the competition for actual developers.  The DS is expanding the market while picking up the pieces the old dying market is leaving behind.

So it is a bit of an anomaly that the DS is so dominant this gen, yes?  But you also believe it will be this way from here on out....this makes sense.  So the DS owes a big part of its success to the failings of the rest of the industry and not necessarily its own doing.  Had console games not cost astronomical sums, the DS may have done the same as previous handhelds proportionately, am I on track here?

Also, like C0rd said, it may be imperfect to compare sales across gens, kind of like baseball stats across decades.  Userbases increase a lot each gen.

Yeah sounds like we're on the same page here.

I think handhelds are now at the point where they're "good enough" to really compete with home consoles.  It's not about the Super NES making the Game Boy look bad with its "4 shades of cream spinach color" anymore.  Now it's about home consoles wishing they had Nintendogs or Brain Age, and trying to make cheap clones of them.

Honestly I think the DS did every single thing right while at the same time, the rest of the industry did every single thing wrong.  I think the 3DS will be picking up on this momentum and it'll hit the ground running.  I don't think the industry will ever go back.  It's just a matter of time before the rest of the big AAA devs/pubs realize that handheld gaming isn't a secondary market for their B-teams and kids' games, and that there is tons of money to be made there if they just treat it right.



radiantshadow92 said:

so then if the DS is a console. Is the ipod touch a console?

Nope, as it not a deticated game machine. It is a music player that also happens to play games. DS exists for the sole purpose of playing video games.



The Ghost of RubangB said:
NYANKS said:
RolStoppable said:
NYANKS said:

This is true, but I also feel like people who choose to invest in handhelds care less, whether by simply expecting the same support from the past to continue or whatever.  Do you need to a top tier team to put out many of the games that do well on handhelds?  Not really.  There are a lot of remakes, easy.  Puzzle focused games, the friggin Imagine Series, tower defense games that would on consoles be a twenty dollar PSN game, etc.  People generally expect less from handhelds, so the lack of mega dev team support isn't a big deal.  Does anyone care the Santa Monica isn't doing Ghost of Sparta? No.  So many big DS games, people here probably don't even know the actual devs, because they were outsourced.  I mean, do you always need a AAA team to do the 146th port of Tetris?

I wasn't talking about the types of games in my previous post, but the impact of individual titles. In other words, games that actually make people consider to buy the hardware. There's much more of them made for home consoles than handhelds. Remakes never reach the same sales level as a true sequel. The Imagine Series consists of dozens of different games and only a few of them crossed the million mark which isn't that big in this day and age of multimillion sellers.

Does anyone care that Santa Monica isn't doing Ghost of Sparta? Probably not, because as you said, most people don't know the actual developer of a specific game. But the PSP GoW aren't full entries in the series, they are merely sidestories. As a result they don't have the same impact as the home console games, not in software sales and also not in hardware moving capabilities. That's the problem handhelds in general are facing: they usually don't get the big games and the majority of gamers tends to go where the big games are. A quick example: Final Fantasy remakes on the DS sell okay, but Dragon Quest IX makes Japan go bonkers.

Handhelds have the advantage to sell to two or more people in the same household, yes. That's why they should routinely beat the home consoles in each generation in sales, right? But that didn't happen, so the great imbalance between handhelds and home consoles when it comes to big games has definitely been a huge advantage for home consoles in the past. A bigger advantage than what handhelds have over home consoles.

So if handhelds are churning out an inferior product, how do you explain the sales?  If they are cheaper, portable, and the games are not of the quality of consoles, to what do you attribute the success?


This is the first generation in which the development costs of non-portable games increased beyond the point of no return, and now most developers can't afford to make non-portable games.  This led to a huge shift in software development from non-portable consoles to portable consoles.  This led to the hugest and most diverse software library belonging to the DS instead of any non-portable console.

Also, I think that past generations have led most gamers to expect experimental games and niche games on handhelds, while reserving home consoles for traditional, boring, AAA blockbuster sequels.  The DS is getting both.  Dragon Quest 9 on a handheld?  People actually laughed when that was announced.  And in the last 4 years, the Wii has only gotten a rail-shooter out of The Legend of Zelda, while the DS already got 2 whole Wind Waker sequels.  The DS even got the first 2D Mario platformer in 15 or so years.

 

So while the software has been moving to handhelds because home systems are too expensive... that's not exactly the DS's fault.  The rest of the industry did that to themselves.  I think the DS's greatest success was marketing itself toward people who don't look down at portable gaming due to its lack of big budget AAA sequels.  It sold itself with Nintendogs and Brain Age until everything else fell into place.


TL;DR
The big budget console business is slowly killing itself.  They didn't just price themselves out of the competition for consumers; they priced themselves out of the competition for actual developers.  The DS is expanding the market while picking up the pieces the old dying market is leaving behind.


This is something I dont understand. How many developers have closed this Gen over one or two flops? Yet they keep freaking doing it? How in the hell does this make any sense? They are not stupid or they would not be able to make a game in the first place, but come on use your fund wisely for once. When  you make a new IP dont spend 50million or w/e they have been on it. A game does not have to look real as can be to be successfull. Make it look pretty decent and make it fun. Bam success and if not well least you have funds left to give it another go.



I find this thread (well really the debate within it) humorous 




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I think, DS will outsell PS 2. Where are the 150 milion Numbers? Show the Source! 150 Shipments maybe, but we are talking about SALES!

 

Wii can reach 100 Milion, but not 130 or so. Because, Kinect will push XBOX 360 in Europe and America. In japan Wii can beat the PS 3 easily, GT5 ist not THE Game of this Gen, or only one, Wii has dozen of Games of this Gen.

 

DS is like Game Boy, it is a Console and will be on Top as 3DS too.



SEGA, the Game is never over!

Metallicube said:
radiantshadow92 said:

so then if the DS is a console. Is the ipod touch a console?

Nope, as it not a deticated game machine. It is a music player that also happens to play games. DS exists for the sole purpose of playing video games.


it depends on the consumer. There are tons of people that buy ps3 or psp simply just for their media. the DS can live for the sole purpose of playing music for example. So that logic doesn't really apply here. Like said before, i think it really depends who you ask, and there is no right answer. 



It is good to see the DS is / will be on top. It will happen or it has happened already either way is just a question of when you ask the question.

Anyway im proud to see the DS as the champion because Nintendo used no dirty tactics, they didn't try to drive competitors out of the market and they didn't make silly boasts and act as if they were they king of everything. In this respect the good guys have won and we all like to see the good guys win.

 



Tease.

radiantshadow92 said:
Metallicube said:
radiantshadow92 said:

so then if the DS is a console. Is the ipod touch a console?

Nope, as it not a deticated game machine. It is a music player that also happens to play games. DS exists for the sole purpose of playing video games.


it depends on the consumer. There are tons of people that buy ps3 or psp simply just for their media. the DS can live for the sole purpose of playing music for example. So that logic doesn't really apply here. Like said before, i think it really depends who you ask, and there is no right answer. 

Well, this is a sales site for video games systems. I can't seem to find the iPod on the front page. But there's the DS...



VGChartz

milkyjoe said:
radiantshadow92 said:
Metallicube said:
radiantshadow92 said:

so then if the DS is a console. Is the ipod touch a console?

Nope, as it not a deticated game machine. It is a music player that also happens to play games. DS exists for the sole purpose of playing video games.


it depends on the consumer. There are tons of people that buy ps3 or psp simply just for their media. the DS can live for the sole purpose of playing music for example. So that logic doesn't really apply here. Like said before, i think it really depends who you ask, and there is no right answer. 

Well, this is a sales site for video games systems. I can't seem to find the iPod on the front page. But there's the DS...

I am sure if vgchartz could track iPods, it would. It would bring a billion more hits to the site.