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Forums - Sales Discussion - Nintendo DS Becoming Best Selling Console of All Time in a Couple of Days

Ninten78 on 29 November 2010

It probably  #1 as we speak



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NYANKS on 29 November 2010
Ninten78 said:

It probably  #1 as we speak

Nah, the PS2 was actually shown to be pretty grossly undertracked in the most recent quarterly numbers,by possibly a few million even, but site has not altered the numbers.  I don't know where to find them right now, but perhaps Carl or someone knows.  I would just say don't be surprised if DS "passes" soon, and has to do it again down the line lol.



radiantshadow92 on 29 November 2010
Christian973 said:

Nintendo has done more this generation than what Sony did in the past 2 generations lol


wha? 



radiantshadow92 on 29 November 2010

so then if the DS is a console. Is the ipod touch a console?



NYANKS on 29 November 2010
radiantshadow92 said:

so then if the DS is a console. Is the ipod touch a console?


Not necessarily.  It seems like there are slightly different definitions, but most seem to think that a console should be a machine dedicated to games, at least that should be the foremost priority.  Games are just kind of an add on for Apple products at the moment.  But I'm sure people may have a different opinion.  Games are certainly big on Apple's products...



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c0rd on 29 November 2010
NYANKS said:

Rol actually said the DS has finally changed problems with handhelds sufficiently that the problems do not offset the inherent advantages of handhelds.  The screen, amazing support, its portability and its tendency to have many copies in a single household (leading inevitably, to the price difference), are all enhancing its sales.  Home consoles can't beat that when done well.  The perfectly executed handheld console will defeat the perfectly executed home console, at least as of now and demonstrated by the PS2 and DS.  The Blu ray effect was not terribly large, and it also had to offset a 600 dollar initial price tag.  The Wii's motion, while humongous, can be compared to PS1's change to CD, not in innovation necessarily, but in effect.  

All the consoles have games that appeal to all.  Yes, handhelds tend to accentuate this to make up for their lack of horsepower.    This has always existed.  You can't really package Tetris for 60 bucks on a home console and expect not to get laughed at.  

The PS2 vs DS isn't really a fair comparison for you to make this assumption, as the PS2 is from the generation before. I would agree with the DS getting more things right (in regards to handhelds), but you must also consider all the things the home consoles have gotten wrong this gen.

We all know the Wii won't be passing the DS now, but who's to say it couldn't have if it had major third party support? What if the console were powerful enough, that games like CoD / GTA were specifically developed for it? What if the Wii had dominated the home console marketshare like the PS2 did?

Sure, in theory, it may seem like a perfectly executed handheld platform will have the advantage. However, I'm not convinced that's the case, in reality. The total home console sales outpacing the handhelds this gen still have me in doubt.



radiantshadow92 on 29 November 2010
NYANKS said:
radiantshadow92 said:

so then if the DS is a console. Is the ipod touch a console?


Not necessarily.  It seems like there are slightly different definitions, but most seem to think that a console should be a machine dedicated to games, at least that should be the foremost priority.  Games are just kind of an add on for Apple products at the moment.  But I'm sure people may have a different opinion.  Games are certainly big on Apple's products...


They sell huge on Apple products, and there are devs that specifically design games for the Itouch. I just can't grasp the DS being compared to the ps2. It is a console, but not a home console imo.



NYANKS on 29 November 2010
radiantshadow92 said:
NYANKS said:
radiantshadow92 said:

so then if the DS is a console. Is the ipod touch a console?


Not necessarily.  It seems like there are slightly different definitions, but most seem to think that a console should be a machine dedicated to games, at least that should be the foremost priority.  Games are just kind of an add on for Apple products at the moment.  But I'm sure people may have a different opinion.  Games are certainly big on Apple's products...


They sell huge on Apple products, and there are devs that specifically design games for the Itouch. I just can't grasp the DS being compared to the ps2. It is a console, but not a home console imo.

I kind of agree, but comparisons can be made as long as you put things in perspective.  Some people don't want to do this though, hence the neverending subject lol.    :)



The Ghost of RubangB on 29 November 2010
NYANKS said:
RolStoppable said:
NYANKS said:

This is true, but I also feel like people who choose to invest in handhelds care less, whether by simply expecting the same support from the past to continue or whatever.  Do you need to a top tier team to put out many of the games that do well on handhelds?  Not really.  There are a lot of remakes, easy.  Puzzle focused games, the friggin Imagine Series, tower defense games that would on consoles be a twenty dollar PSN game, etc.  People generally expect less from handhelds, so the lack of mega dev team support isn't a big deal.  Does anyone care the Santa Monica isn't doing Ghost of Sparta? No.  So many big DS games, people here probably don't even know the actual devs, because they were outsourced.  I mean, do you always need a AAA team to do the 146th port of Tetris?

I wasn't talking about the types of games in my previous post, but the impact of individual titles. In other words, games that actually make people consider to buy the hardware. There's much more of them made for home consoles than handhelds. Remakes never reach the same sales level as a true sequel. The Imagine Series consists of dozens of different games and only a few of them crossed the million mark which isn't that big in this day and age of multimillion sellers.

Does anyone care that Santa Monica isn't doing Ghost of Sparta? Probably not, because as you said, most people don't know the actual developer of a specific game. But the PSP GoW aren't full entries in the series, they are merely sidestories. As a result they don't have the same impact as the home console games, not in software sales and also not in hardware moving capabilities. That's the problem handhelds in general are facing: they usually don't get the big games and the majority of gamers tends to go where the big games are. A quick example: Final Fantasy remakes on the DS sell okay, but Dragon Quest IX makes Japan go bonkers.

Handhelds have the advantage to sell to two or more people in the same household, yes. That's why they should routinely beat the home consoles in each generation in sales, right? But that didn't happen, so the great imbalance between handhelds and home consoles when it comes to big games has definitely been a huge advantage for home consoles in the past. A bigger advantage than what handhelds have over home consoles.

So if handhelds are churning out an inferior product, how do you explain the sales?  If they are cheaper, portable, and the games are not of the quality of consoles, to what do you attribute the success?


This is the first generation in which the development costs of non-portable games increased beyond the point of no return, and now most developers can't afford to make non-portable games.  This led to a huge shift in software development from non-portable consoles to portable consoles.  This led to the hugest and most diverse software library belonging to the DS instead of any non-portable console.

Also, I think that past generations have led most gamers to expect experimental games and niche games on handhelds, while reserving home consoles for traditional, boring, AAA blockbuster sequels.  The DS is getting both.  Dragon Quest 9 on a handheld?  People actually laughed when that was announced.  And in the last 4 years, the Wii has only gotten a rail-shooter out of The Legend of Zelda, while the DS already got 2 whole Wind Waker sequels.  The DS even got the first 2D Mario platformer in 15 or so years.

 

So while the software has been moving to handhelds because home systems are too expensive... that's not exactly the DS's fault.  The rest of the industry did that to themselves.  I think the DS's greatest success was marketing itself toward people who don't look down at portable gaming due to its lack of big budget AAA sequels.  It sold itself with Nintendogs and Brain Age until everything else fell into place.


TL;DR
The big budget console business is slowly killing itself.  They didn't just price themselves out of the competition for consumers; they priced themselves out of the competition for actual developers.  The DS is expanding the market while picking up the pieces the old dying market is leaving behind.



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NYANKS on 29 November 2010
c0rd said:
NYANKS said:

Rol actually said the DS has finally changed problems with handhelds sufficiently that the problems do not offset the inherent advantages of handhelds.  The screen, amazing support, its portability and its tendency to have many copies in a single household (leading inevitably, to the price difference), are all enhancing its sales.  Home consoles can't beat that when done well.  The perfectly executed handheld console will defeat the perfectly executed home console, at least as of now and demonstrated by the PS2 and DS.  The Blu ray effect was not terribly large, and it also had to offset a 600 dollar initial price tag.  The Wii's motion, while humongous, can be compared to PS1's change to CD, not in innovation necessarily, but in effect.  

All the consoles have games that appeal to all.  Yes, handhelds tend to accentuate this to make up for their lack of horsepower.    This has always existed.  You can't really package Tetris for 60 bucks on a home console and expect not to get laughed at.  

The PS2 vs DS isn't really a fair comparison for you to make this assumption, as the PS2 is from the generation before. I would agree with the DS getting more things right (in regards to handhelds), but you must also consider all the things the home consoles have gotten wrong this gen.

We all know the Wii won't be passing the DS now, but who's to say it couldn't have if it had major third party support? What if the console were powerful enough, that games like CoD / GTA were specifically developed for it? What if the Wii had dominated the home console marketshare like the PS2 did?

Sure, in theory, it may seem like a perfectly executed handheld platform will have the advantage. However, I'm not convinced that's the case, in reality. The total home console sales outpacing the handhelds this gen still have me in doubt.

I also feel you have to be careful when comparing across gens.  Things change, fan bases grow.  That's kind of what I believe, at least partly.  The failings of home consoles this gen coupled with recession and the amazing execution of the DS made it excel.  If the Wii WAS the next PS2 (which it is not by most measures), I still think the DS would win, unless the Wii would directly eat at DS's sales.

I agree it is kind of difficult to gauge.  We may never get to see monopolisitc domination like the PS2 again, and surely not on the handheld and home console sides in the same gen.  So it's tough.