Make you a deal.

Name one game for the xbox that has outsold any single one of the gran turismo games.

Hint... It cant be done. Gran turismo will sell consoles just as the games you mentioned will sell consoles.

Now I own a ps3 and an xbox 360 and will probably own all the game you and I mentioned. The point is the playstation 3 will sell plenty of consoles as will the xbox 360.

Also, the argument i was making was that if you take into consideration the late Europe release for the ps3 it did fair better in its first year compared directly to the 360. However, as i stated I still feel it was a disappointment considering one thing. It has the playstation name.

What the hell are you babbling about? I own a PS3 and played Warhawk, beat Heavenly Sword, and will play Uncharted in the next week or so (finally!). And sorry but I'm not biting on Sony's bullshit idea of charging me $40 for an extended demo. They can suck it, I won't be paying a dime for anything Gran Turismo until the full game hits shelves.

And what the hell does that have to do with my point anyway? 

I won't argue with any of your points. Although I think Playstation fans are going to be in for a disappointment when GTA IV, MGS4, FFXIII, and GT5 sales numbers hit in the next 18 months. Those games won't be moving 10m+ without the convenient 100 million userbase of the PS1 and PS2 behind them.

I'm not saying that the PS3 will never sell more than the 360... I just believe that if it ever does, it will be too little, too late. Shit, it already is. In Microsoft's eyes, they've already won this generation. They went from an also-ran with a 90m console deficit to fighting the only other home media entertainment system on the market for a solid second place. Sure, they'd like to be in Nintendo's place right now but compared to last generation, they have to be pretty happy with how Sony has responded with the PS3. 

Guys the difference is Japan DUH.

I agree that sales will be lower then many are expecting. It is also important to note however, that gran turismo 3 sold about 14 million and it launched early in the life of the ps2.

Also, I agree with you that ms must be excited with their position this gen.

In the end i believe sony will outsell ms but they will not be happy with how things turned out this gen compared to last.

By the way...do you think ps2 hits 135 before it is retired

Reading comprehension FTL.

Here is what I typed (without your convenient edit):

I wasn't even talking about the staggered launch date comparison. I addressed how useless that was in an earlier post. 

It might... Remember that the console should have 3-4 more years of legs in developing countries after the market dries up in the industrial world. I also believe that the Wii is inadvertently adding life to Sony's old console because it's so easy to create a Wii/PS2 game on the same engine.

Who knows how long it will be before that bloody console stops selling... 

 PS2 still has a lot of steam left but 20 million, I say it will retire at 130M no higher.