There were 14.0 million PS2s sold in Japan when GT4P released.

There were 1.6 million PS3 sold in Japan when GT5p released.  (There are 5.7 million PS3 in Japan Now. )

According to polyphony webssite, Japan sales are

GT4p - 790,000
GT5P - 740,000

Look at the sales and user base.

I have a probelm with your points casue they are plain wrong.  They are just ignorant thoughts from some one that lacks intelligence facts and knowledge on the matter (it being Gran Turismo)

 I wont waste my time on the other points, they are no better. 

I personlly  can't see how any intelligent person could interpret that as a weakness or con, if any one other then Michael-5 sees that as a con or some proof of current GT franchise weakness and/or likely hood GT5 will sale less then previous GTs.   Please do explain it to me.  

fyi

Japan sales according to Polyphony.

GT4p 790k

GT5p 740k

Note: Some one lacks ability to collect the correct facts and numbers and the ability to look at the bigger picture - PS2 Japan sales were at 14 million before GT4s release, PS3 was at less then 2 million before GT5p released. 

Just saying.

Since I agree with your pro's I'll just comment on your con's:

1. Yeah a 5 year wait maybe will put off some people....but I doubt it will do major harm as a lot of GT's fan base is pretty semi casual and a lot of GT's market will buy it no matter what. Also many people will buy it just because ITS FINALLY HERE after the wait!

2. Currently it looks like a November 30th - December 5th release....between that. If its announced this week SONY have ample time to market it massively. REMEMBER we are in the holidays.....people will have impulse buys

3. Sure we've seen change in gaming habits....but it isn't that extreme because MGS4, RE5, FFXIII still sold very well well in the West. And Gran Turismo is a completely different beast in itself....its a game that is known as the leader of its genre....trends may change, but GT5 itself may end up changing trends.

4. Having no porsche won't bring down sales....most people won't even know this. "too hard getting cars"......thats always been there in GT, nothing different from past games really.

5. Don't see this as an issue......70 track variations itself is a huuuuge.

6. Yes it may be weaker in Japan....but lately PS3's growth in Japan has been huge compared to before....GT5:P came to PS3 in Japan when it was a wounded beast.

I don't see how limited cosmetic damage is a flaw in the game. If it WEREN'T in the game, people would be complaining. Its an ADDITION that is only available on a select few. Its not a REDUCTION that was done for any specific reason.

How is something that was implemented for the thrill a game design flaw? Thats like saying the addition of lambo is a game design flaw because not EVERY car is a lambo....

Serious GAMERS? You got it all wrong. Serious car lovers suits it.

Yes, Digital downlods, I'll use the Polyphony figure.

Still GT5P sales are lower then GT4P sales despite have 3 times as long to sell.

And are you making a userbase arguement? Do you really want me to put down lifetime expected 70 million PS3's compared to the better selling PS1's and PS2's as an arguement?

People argue that userbase is meaningless (me included), GT3 was released on the PS2 when it was a fresh console, and it was the best selling GT game by far. So please don't use that very same userbase arguement in the opposite direction to justify the poorer sales of GT5P in Japan.

I mean look at Halo, Halo 3 sales are basically equal to Halo Reach sales despite the smaller fanbase. Even in GT, GT1 and GT3 are bigger then GT2 and GT4 respectivly, how does this follow the userbase arguement when there were more PS1's and PS2's at the time GT2 and GT4 were released?

Also please watch your language man, some of your posts are quite aweful.

Oh come on. I got all the best cars in Gt 2 for fun thanks to the reward system being so easy. Shouldnt be any different in this game.

Many of the points are mine as this thread is still fresh, but I hope for that to change in a day or two.

I also said many of these points are likely to cause little to no effect at all in total sales. This is a subjective list, merely designed to point out the reasons for the hype and concerns for the game.

Also thank you for at least stating that you agree with all the pros.

1. I agree, but some people may have moved on. A lot or a little, some people may have moved on.

2. Speculations, and it won't get the marketing say Halo got (it's release date was known months prior, and it was marketed extensivly)

3. I agree, but it's still a valid point. FPS's have the spotlight this generation, where in the PS2 era it was sandbox/racing, and before that it was Platformer, RPG, racing.

4. Hm... what's your take on damage modeling?

5. This one I debated putting on. I only wanted to show compeditor Sims have more. I wanted 1 pro to be most cars, 1 con to be less tracks then Forza, but I'm not sure how good this point is. Maybe I should add it to another larger point.

6. Still a valid con, but you don't have to agree, this is just a list of potential pros/cons.

Good post btw

I put damage in both cons and pros. Pro because it's a new addition like you mentioned, con because compeditor simulation racers have a much more robust damage modelling system (GRID, Forza).

As for your Lambo example: Addition of Lambo's is a Pro, still no porsche is a con. However the addition of Lambo is a bigger pro then no cons, thats why it has it's own bullet and the no Porsche is under the design flaws bullet.

I only have about 60ish cars in GT3, and less in GT4. I have over 150 in Forza Motorsport 3, but I dunno exactly how many because I never counted. Amount of time played between GT3 and Forza 3 is about equal, GT4 got a little less love cause my PS2 broke.