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jneul said:
highwaystar101 said:
jneul said:
highwaystar101 said:
jneul said:

we will only know when revelations comes true

OT: different people have different beliefs, I myself believe the universe too complicated to be created by accident (i.e big bang), just think about what it would take to create the perfect solar system for earth and it just happened to be habitable, funny if it happened by accident, because that would be lucky

The Big Bang wasn't an accident per se. But that's not the point.

The Big Bang theory is well supported, and I would love for people to understand the evidence a little better because it's such a beautiful and fascinating theory. For example, the Big Bang theory is supported by the metric expansion of space, which has been observed in detail many times through the colour shift (from the Doppler effect) in other galaxies. If you extrapolate the expansion backwards you find that everything in the universe had to be part of a singularity around 13.7 - 0.02 Bn years ago.

I mean, that's just incredible and it's even more amazing that we've sat and worked it out.

I asked Pizzahut what his interpretation of this was because he didn't accept the Big Bang theory either (well, he called it a retarded theory), but he never replied. And I would love to genuinely know how Big Bang sceptics treat that evidence.

The Big Bang is also interesting because it doesn't involve removing the notion of god, yet many people treat it like it does. I can note many people who have been religious and accepted the Big Bang theory, such a pope Pius XII, pope John Paul II, George Lemaitre, etc. i don't understand the automatic reflex against it.

It doesn't involve the removal of god and it it is backed up with lots of compelling and wonderful evidence. 

no i accept god could have started the big-bang but it was no accident that's what i ment, which is why the universe is so complicated, just my view of course.

Sorry, I didn't get that

In that case you need to extend this to the anthropic principle, which is my view. Essentially it is the notion that it takes life to observe life, and no matter how unlikely life is, the illusion of high chances is removed because only life can recognise that life exists.

I liken it to winning the lottery. reality is a place full of desperate odd, but with those desperate odds are high numbers to accommodate them. Week in week out people win the lottery, but the odds of you winning are astronomical.

Only those who win the lottery know what it is like to live the life of a lottery winner, and the average person is extremely unlikely to live that life, yet people do.

 

This all also assumes that we are the only combination of life that can exist. That us fleshy Carbon based life forms are the only ones.

In a different Universe with different laws of physics another type of life would exist. A lifeform in a Universe with no gravity would be different to us, but it has been hypothesised and well supported that such life can exist. A lifeform in a Universe with little Carbon could probably use Silicon as their base element.

We mustn't forget the very real likelihood that our type of life is the type of life that is supported by our universe, yet in another universe with different laws of nature a different type of life will exist.

in a way that makes a lot of sense to me when I actually think about it, I just never did, in a way you are right and we could have adapted to our environment to put it in simple terms, I mean just look at people who ,live in hotter areas of the earth they are more resilient to the heat but feel the cold more, and people who went to live at higher altitude's have stated it took them a while to adapt and they thought it would be impossible to have children in new situations, but it eventually happened and apparently the children were acclimatised, just some info I found out on the internet

does this make sense to you, did I understand right??

Well, yes you are mostly right, but one thing I would add.

You are right in saying that life will adapt to the nature that allows it. But I also believe that life has the potential to be extremely diverse, and from this diverse potential types of life, only one (or maybe more?) can exist in a universe that allows it. We, for example, may be able to adapt to a slightly different universe, but could never adapt to a universe with small amounts of Carbon or no gravity. But that is not to say a Universe with no Carbon or gravity couldn't support another type of life.

Yet life that is different from us could potentially thrive in universes like that.

To extend your analogy. It's kind of like saying this human can adapt to live on a mountain, but they can't adapt to live on the moon of Europa. However, Europa may accommodate another type of life that is different to us. You just extend this idea to the laws of nature too.



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highwaystar101 said:
jneul said:
highwaystar101 said:
jneul said:
highwaystar101 said:
jneul said:

we will only know when revelations comes true

OT: different people have different beliefs, I myself believe the universe too complicated to be created by accident (i.e big bang), just think about what it would take to create the perfect solar system for earth and it just happened to be habitable, funny if it happened by accident, because that would be lucky

The Big Bang wasn't an accident per se. But that's not the point.

The Big Bang theory is well supported, and I would love for people to understand the evidence a little better because it's such a beautiful and fascinating theory. For example, the Big Bang theory is supported by the metric expansion of space, which has been observed in detail many times through the colour shift (from the Doppler effect) in other galaxies. If you extrapolate the expansion backwards you find that everything in the universe had to be part of a singularity around 13.7 - 0.02 Bn years ago.

I mean, that's just incredible and it's even more amazing that we've sat and worked it out.

I asked Pizzahut what his interpretation of this was because he didn't accept the Big Bang theory either (well, he called it a retarded theory), but he never replied. And I would love to genuinely know how Big Bang sceptics treat that evidence.

The Big Bang is also interesting because it doesn't involve removing the notion of god, yet many people treat it like it does. I can note many people who have been religious and accepted the Big Bang theory, such a pope Pius XII, pope John Paul II, George Lemaitre, etc. i don't understand the automatic reflex against it.

It doesn't involve the removal of god and it it is backed up with lots of compelling and wonderful evidence. 

no i accept god could have started the big-bang but it was no accident that's what i ment, which is why the universe is so complicated, just my view of course.

Sorry, I didn't get that

In that case you need to extend this to the anthropic principle, which is my view. Essentially it is the notion that it takes life to observe life, and no matter how unlikely life is, the illusion of high chances is removed because only life can recognise that life exists.

I liken it to winning the lottery. reality is a place full of desperate odd, but with those desperate odds are high numbers to accommodate them. Week in week out people win the lottery, but the odds of you winning are astronomical.

Only those who win the lottery know what it is like to live the life of a lottery winner, and the average person is extremely unlikely to live that life, yet people do.

 

This all also assumes that we are the only combination of life that can exist. That us fleshy Carbon based life forms are the only ones.

In a different Universe with different laws of physics another type of life would exist. A lifeform in a Universe with no gravity would be different to us, but it has been hypothesised and well supported that such life can exist. A lifeform in a Universe with little Carbon could probably use Silicon as their base element.

We mustn't forget the very real likelihood that our type of life is the type of life that is supported by our universe, yet in another universe with different laws of nature a different type of life will exist.

in a way that makes a lot of sense to me when I actually think about it, I just never did, in a way you are right and we could have adapted to our environment to put it in simple terms, I mean just look at people who ,live in hotter areas of the earth they are more resilient to the heat but feel the cold more, and people who went to live at higher altitude's have stated it took them a while to adapt and they thought it would be impossible to have children in new situations, but it eventually happened and apparently the children were acclimatised, just some info I found out on the internet

does this make sense to you, did I understand right??

Well, yes you are mostly right, but one thing I would add.

You are right in saying that life will adapt to the nature that allows it. But I also believe that life has the potential to be extremely diverse, and from this diverse potential types of life, only one (or maybe more?) can exist in a universe that allows it. We, for example, may be able to adapt to a slightly different universe, but could never adapt to a universe with small amounts of Carbon or no gravity. But that is not to say a Universe with no Carbon or gravity couldn't support another type of life.

Yet life that is different from us could potentially thrive in universes like that.

To extend your analogy. It's kind of like saying this human can adapt to live on a mountain, but they can't adapt to live on the moon of Europa. However, Europa may accommodate another type of life that is different to us. You just extend this idea to the laws of nature too.


yeah that makes much sense thanks for the insight, i owe you for enlightenment



it's the future of handheld

PS VITA = LIFE

The official Vita thread http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=130023&page=1

if so I want a brontosauraus



Wiintendo said:


 

@highwaystar101

Yes, you understand right, I'm a Young Earth Bible Believing Authorized King James Using Self Professed Christian.

 

Geological column - stratigraphic layers, radiometric dating, carbon dating, and all the like have been address and explained numerous times by creation scientists many times before.

 

Of their ilk Kent Hovind is the creationist with whom I agree most with, I've also studied his work more so than other creationists.  If you'd like to understand these points better, and at the same time gaining both sides of the argument I'd recommend watching some debates (may'be search for some with your favorite scientists.)

 



So you believe in Kent Hovind? The same guy thats in jail right now? The guy that has recieved all his degrees from non-accredited universities that are known as being "diploma mills".

You do realize that the man has had no scientific education what so ever right?

Hovind is one of the biggest conspiracy nuts out there. I mean the things he believes in are down right insane. He thinks that laetrile, a cyanid releasing component, is a cancer cure that is being held from the public by the US government, and that is one of his more reasonable conspiracy theories.

Read this theory written by a man with no scientific background

Hovind summarizes his version of the young Earth creation story into the eponymous "Hovind Theory" taken from a variety of creationist sources.[40][41] The "Hovind Theory" was presented at Hovind lectures and in his work "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution".[41] Hovind explained the Biblical account of Noah as follows: Noah's family and two of every "kind" of animal (including young dinosaurs)[42] safely boarded the Ark before a −300 °F (−184 °C) ice meteor came flying toward the earth and broke up in space. Some of the meteor fragments became rings and others caused the impact craters on the moon and some of the planets. The remaining ice fragments fell to the North and South poles of the Earth, concentrated towards those regions by the Earth's magnetic field.

He explains the fossils were created by billions of organisms that were washed together by the mass destruction of the worldwide flood, completely buried, and rapidly fossilized.[43]

The resulting "super-cold snow" fell near the poles, burying the mammoths standing up.[41] Ice on the North and South pole cracked the crust of the earth releasing the fountains of the deep, which in turn caused certain ice age effects, namely the glacier effects. This made the earth "wobble around" and collapsed the vapor canopy that protected it.

During the first few months of the flood, the dead animals and plants were buried, and became oil and coal, respectively. The last few months of the flood included geological instability, when the plates shifted. This period saw the formation of both ocean basins and mountain ranges and the resulting water run-off caused incredible erosion – Hovind states that the Grand Canyon was formed in a couple of weeks during this time.[44] After a few hundred years, the ice caps slowly melted back retreating to their current size and the ocean levels increased, creating the continental shelves. The deeper oceans absorbed much of the carbon dioxide in earth’s atmosphere and thus allowed greater amounts of radiation to reach the earth's surface. As a result, human lifespans were shortened considerably in the days of Peleg.


You have to be completely blind to believe the things that man says. I believe in God. I also believe God gave me a brain to use, not to follow ignorant people like sheep.



                                           

                      The definitive evidence that video games turn people into mass murderers

Mendicate Bias said:
Wiintendo said:


 

@highwaystar101

Yes, you understand right, I'm a Young Earth Bible Believing Authorized King James Using Self Professed Christian.

 

Geological column - stratigraphic layers, radiometric dating, carbon dating, and all the like have been address and explained numerous times by creation scientists many times before.

 

Of their ilk Kent Hovind is the creationist with whom I agree most with, I've also studied his work more so than other creationists.  If you'd like to understand these points better, and at the same time gaining both sides of the argument I'd recommend watching some debates (may'be search for some with your favorite scientists.)

 



So you believe in Kent Hovind? The same guy thats in jail right now? The guy that has recieved all his degrees from non-accredited universities that are known as being "diploma mills".

You do realize that the man has had no scientific education what so ever right?

Hovind is one of the biggest conspiracy nuts out there. I mean the things he believes in are down right insane. He thinks that laetrile, a cyanid releasing component, is a cancer cure that is being held from the public by the US government, and that is one of his more reasonable conspiracy theories.

Read this theory written by a man with no scientific background

Hovind summarizes his version of the young Earth creation story into the eponymous "Hovind Theory" taken from a variety of creationist sources.[40][41] The "Hovind Theory" was presented at Hovind lectures and in his work "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution".[41] Hovind explained the Biblical account of Noah as follows: Noah's family and two of every "kind" of animal (including young dinosaurs)[42] safely boarded the Ark before a −300 °F (−184 °C) ice meteor came flying toward the earth and broke up in space. Some of the meteor fragments became rings and others caused the impact craters on the moon and some of the planets. The remaining ice fragments fell to the North and South poles of the Earth, concentrated towards those regions by the Earth's magnetic field.

He explains the fossils were created by billions of organisms that were washed together by the mass destruction of the worldwide flood, completely buried, and rapidly fossilized.[43]

The resulting "super-cold snow" fell near the poles, burying the mammoths standing up.[41] Ice on the North and South pole cracked the crust of the earth releasing the fountains of the deep, which in turn caused certain ice age effects, namely the glacier effects. This made the earth "wobble around" and collapsed the vapor canopy that protected it.

During the first few months of the flood, the dead animals and plants were buried, and became oil and coal, respectively. The last few months of the flood included geological instability, when the plates shifted. This period saw the formation of both ocean basins and mountain ranges and the resulting water run-off caused incredible erosion – Hovind states that the Grand Canyon was formed in a couple of weeks during this time.[44] After a few hundred years, the ice caps slowly melted back retreating to their current size and the ocean levels increased, creating the continental shelves. The deeper oceans absorbed much of the carbon dioxide in earth’s atmosphere and thus allowed greater amounts of radiation to reach the earth's surface. As a result, human lifespans were shortened considerably in the days of Peleg.


That's really some of the biggest bullshit I've ever heard.



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jneul said:

yeah that makes much sense thanks for the insight, i owe you for enlightenment


You're welcome, I'm always willing to get into a good philosophical debate



evolution is a lie, nice one. its a scientific fact that people get 90% of their genes depending on their enviorment.



Being in 3rd place never felt so good

Mendicate Bias said:
Wiintendo said:


 

@highwaystar101

Yes, you understand right, I'm a Young Earth Bible Believing Authorized King James Using Self Professed Christian.

 

Geological column - stratigraphic layers, radiometric dating, carbon dating, and all the like have been address and explained numerous times by creation scientists many times before.

 

Of their ilk Kent Hovind is the creationist with whom I agree most with, I've also studied his work more so than other creationists.  If you'd like to understand these points better, and at the same time gaining both sides of the argument I'd recommend watching some debates (may'be search for some with your favorite scientists.)

 



So you believe in Kent Hovind? The same guy thats in jail right now? The guy that has recieved all his degrees from non-accredited universities that are known as being "diploma mills".

You do realize that the man has had no scientific education what so ever right?

Hovind is one of the biggest conspiracy nuts out there. I mean the things he believes in are down right insane. He thinks that laetrile, a cyanid releasing component, is a cancer cure that is being held from the public by the US government, and that is one of his more reasonable conspiracy theories.

Read this theory written by a man with no scientific background

Hovind summarizes his version of the young Earth creation story into the eponymous "Hovind Theory" taken from a variety of creationist sources.[40][41] The "Hovind Theory" was presented at Hovind lectures and in his work "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution".[41] Hovind explained the Biblical account of Noah as follows: Noah's family and two of every "kind" of animal (including young dinosaurs)[42] safely boarded the Ark before a −300 °F (−184 °C) ice meteor came flying toward the earth and broke up in space. Some of the meteor fragments became rings and others caused the impact craters on the moon and some of the planets. The remaining ice fragments fell to the North and South poles of the Earth, concentrated towards those regions by the Earth's magnetic field.

He explains the fossils were created by billions of organisms that were washed together by the mass destruction of the worldwide flood, completely buried, and rapidly fossilized.[43]

The resulting "super-cold snow" fell near the poles, burying the mammoths standing up.[41] Ice on the North and South pole cracked the crust of the earth releasing the fountains of the deep, which in turn caused certain ice age effects, namely the glacier effects. This made the earth "wobble around" and collapsed the vapor canopy that protected it.

During the first few months of the flood, the dead animals and plants were buried, and became oil and coal, respectively. The last few months of the flood included geological instability, when the plates shifted. This period saw the formation of both ocean basins and mountain ranges and the resulting water run-off caused incredible erosion – Hovind states that the Grand Canyon was formed in a couple of weeks during this time.[44] After a few hundred years, the ice caps slowly melted back retreating to their current size and the ocean levels increased, creating the continental shelves. The deeper oceans absorbed much of the carbon dioxide in earth’s atmosphere and thus allowed greater amounts of radiation to reach the earth's surface. As a result, human lifespans were shortened considerably in the days of Peleg.


You have to be completely blind to believe the things that man says. I believe in God. I also believe God gave me a brain to use, not to follow ignorant people like sheep.

 

I love the "Mr Hovind theory", he plays it fast and loose with the word theory from that start, and that really is all you need to know.

There's literally dozens of points where known laws of physics falsify his "theory" straight away. I've already covered the Ice shield, which I could talk about forever, just discrediting every aspect of it. His understanding of physics is just awful, he doesn't even fact check to see if he's correct.

But it's things like saying the grand canyon formed in weeks. that's actually physically impossible. When flood waters cut through ground they would go in a straight line. Why? Because of the amounts of pressure and the high speeds. If the grand canyon had been formed in weeks by flood waters it would have to be perfectly straight, and that's basic hydrogeology.

Rivers and canyons don't do this. There aren't really any examples of a perfectly straight river, there are no examples of a perfectly straight canyon. Why? because these things took a long time to form under low pressure. So differing rock density and many other factors come into play and force the river to meander.

Yet the grand canyon is anything but straight, it meanders quite a lot. Have a look...

That is not a few weeks of fast high pressure erosion... That is many years of slow erosion from the Colorado river.

If the grand canyon was formed by high pressure, high speed flood water, then why does it meander so much? Like this...

It's physically impossible. I don't know how people could lap this up after reading about the grand canyon being formed by Noah's flood. At that point I would just be like "Ok, this guys just talking crap".

There are dozens of things like this that Mr Hovind has said which just baffle me more than anything.



sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:

Because everything cant come out of nothing. And by nothing, i really mean nothing. No time, no natural process of any kind, no life, no ANYTHING. Or are you assuming that God created the Big Bang which created the universe?

Where did God come from again in your view?


A God can not ''come from'' anything. However,that question goes far beyond my understanding as a mortal. But i think this quote from the article i posted is somehow related to that quesion:

The skeptic sometimes asks, "Well, then, who created God?" The answer is that no one created God, as he is eternal. A rule of logic states that every effect must have an antecedent cause. But God is not an effect; rather he is a cause. The logic here is simple but compelling. Since something exists, and since something cannot arise from nothing—and further that the universe itself is not eternal—something outside of the universe must be eternal. An infinite creator God must be that something. Time and space had a beginning, but God exists outside of time and space.

That's the lamest argument ever. If we're going with assumptions (as the ideea that the deity you worship exists and the necessity for it to exist are mere assumptions), there's absolutely no reason why one couldn't assume that the deity you worship (God), wasn't created by another being. Also what's outside time and space?

What? A God cant be created by another being, because that would mean that God had a beginning and since God is eternal, he cant have a beginning.



highwaystar101 said:
NKAJ said:
Slimebeast said:

Because the cannibals are wrong of course. Duh.


I'm sorry but quite frankly I think you have an appalling argument.You can just say "oh well cos its wrong,duh"....how is it wrong? and dont just say,cos it is...

Thank you.

It was really frustrating me that his whole argument was essentially "I'm right because I'm right". Especially when he claimed that I didn't understand his argument.

Haha no problem...looks like we'v scared him away though...



"They will know heghan belongs to the helghast"

"England expects that everyman will do his duty"

"we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"