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Forums - General - Atheism and morality

Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:


ok, who the hell ever said that God lives in the clouds and has beard??? God's physical apperence (if he even has one) is nothing like in humans.


What makes you so sure of all that then? If god exists why can't he live on a cloud and have a beard?

Because God doesnt live on Earth, because he is not from this universe, so he cant be living on the clouds (othervise, we would be able to see him) And he cant have a beard because hes not human



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oh, guess what, i cant even send a message now. I copied the post, but it wont pase it on this web site. Seriously now?



Universal Human Rights is content for secular conversation.



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lol



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dib8rman said:

Universal Human Rights is content for secular conversation.

So, exactly what universal see of agreed to values is going to be selected in order to be able to determine what these rights are?  Do you want to value life as one of them?  If so, then do you want to agree when life begins so that matters?  And as far as "viable" goes, exactly what new born can fend for itself?  Anyhow, if you go down this path, then that means abortion is wrong, because it terminates a human (or potential human).

And who says that "rights" is the correct framework for formulation a system of ethics?



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richardhutnik said:
dib8rman said:

Universal Human Rights is content for secular conversation.

So, exactly what universal see of agreed to values is going to be selected in order to be able to determine what these rights are?  Do you want to value life as one of them?  If so, then do you want to agree when life begins so that matters?  And as far as "viable" goes, exactly what new born can fend for itself?  Anyhow, if you go down this path, then that means abortion is wrong, because it terminates a human (or potential human).

And who says that "rights" is the correct framework for formulation a system of ethics?

Wow I said that much?

What path? The one your on is thin as ice, probably because it is thin ice.

Religion is an integral part in most current societies ways of percieving their values, yet conversation of Universal Human Rights can only happen in a secular circle. In fact most advances and I mean real advances such as womens sufferage has gone against the buck hence why it met with so much resistance. This is of course if religion is such an integral part of society. That established values would now have to be percieved differently falls on the shoulders at least in part to religions established perception and all frictions incurred therein.

/gg

Again, Universal Human Rights is content for secular conversation. :)

To be fair though in the Koran a woman is seen as an equal to god and all his creations that are done in his image; that sounds nice doesn't it?

It's also established that a husband is a womans gateway to god, heaven and hell. =D Yay for clarity!



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pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:


ok, who the hell ever said that God lives in the clouds and has beard??? God's physical apperence (if he even has one) is nothing like in humans.


What makes you so sure of all that then? If god exists why can't he live on a cloud and have a beard?

Because God doesnt live on Earth, because he is not from this universe, so he cant be living on the clouds (othervise, we would be able to see him) And he cant have a beard because hes not human

My point was you can't actually know whether any of that is true or not (assuming god exists). Their are so many different interpretations of how god should be that what you say could be different to what someone else believes.



pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:


ok, who the hell ever said that God lives in the clouds and has beard??? God's physical apperence (if he even has one) is nothing like in humans.


What makes you so sure of all that then? If god exists why can't he live on a cloud and have a beard?

Because God doesnt live on Earth, because he is not from this universe, so he cant be living on the clouds (othervise, we would be able to see him) And he cant have a beard because hes not human

There is absolutely no consensus on what God is. If I started up my own church and raised a generation of children to believe that God was a man with a beard sitting in the clouds, they would be on this forum saying exactly that. There can be no consensus, as there is no uniformity to religion.

What evidence can you provide that God exists, inside or out of this universe?



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There are no interpretations on what god should be, it's understood that god is the status god. The entity that is god is beyond interpretation hence why it is god of all. Monotheisim 101.

Secondly Christians attempt to emulate Jesus, Judist attempt to follow Abraham and all his children and their children which are allegedly all past kings of Isreal and the Muslims follow the path of Mohammad.

Did I get that right? By following the path I mean that the goal of each religion is follow in the footsteps of each respective prophet.

What I've never heard mentioned was what Muslims would do if someone claimed to be a direct decendent of Mohammad. I mean the guy did a lot of raping and stuff, he has to have some children.

While Christians say that Jesus never had any children and the Judists say that Abraham had many children.



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sapphi_snake said:
richardhutnik said:

And it is also concievable that you subconsciously believe in God, but don't know it.  If you want to argue that a theoretical construct is able to be superior at coming up with a system of ethics than a good creator who fully knows that which s/he created, then you need to show what that construct is.  Don't go and say, "It is possible to be concieved", but then you don't show what it is.  You are speculating about a construct that may or may not theoretically exist, that is somehow supposed to be your counterpoint, but it doesn't show up in the discussion.

By the way, prove "Nothing is perfect".  Maybe there is something that is perfect.  We just don't know, just as you don't know if there is anything out there that could produce a superior ethics system to what is considered God by many.

I don't understand how I could subconsciously believe in "God"? Are you talking of the result of the indoctrination my parents and the schools in my country tried?

Well "God" is a theoretical construct which may or may not (most likely) exist, so let's say that the theoretical construct capable of coming up with a superior moral/ethical system is "God's creator" (he has to have one after all). Seriously speaking any person with the ability to think could come up with a superior moral/ethical system (not to mention that morals are subjective anyway).

As for me proving that "nothing is perfect", well I've never heard of anything being perfect, have you. No matter how good something is there will always be room for improvement. What do you know of that is perfect (other than made up concepts in your mind)? And the ethical system of Christians is not even close to perfection.

I gotten perfect scores on exams and tests from time to time.  That is a perfect score.

As far as the ethic system goes for Christians, it is "love".  And a perfect ethics system is far less important that people who do the ethics.