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Forums - Nintendo - Abbie Heppe (G4TV): Metroid: Other M is Sexist

MaxwellGT2000 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Games4Fun said:

After playing it twice from start to finish I still am just boggled at how it is sexist.


Well from the point of view of a lady gamer looking to Samus as a truly strong female character, especially with being female not being an issue before, this change can seem like either trying to downgrade the character (sexist in the sense of not allowing strong female characters), or trying to appeal to female gamers by making Samus stereotypically female (sexist in the sense of assuming that's what lady gamers want).

 

You don't even know anything about the game... you can't prove it's sexist or not cause you've spent all your time agreeing with crappy reviews and articles instead of... you know playing the game... but its obvious you're not gonna do that either... there is a content rule you know so if you've got no proof (ya know content) then it's breaking the rules.


I didn't claim it was sexist. I was just trying to explain why her point of view it seems sexist. Did you actually pay attention to what I wrote?


When there is nothing there to actually BE sexist it can't seem like it... its not called a man giving a woman orders, its called a chain of command and the person giving orders is someone that she loves... she isn't even stereotypically female she was put in the hero role, the one that wants to save everyone and nothing less *spoiler* when Adam had to make the choice to let his brother die so everyone would live she wanted to risk her life to save him, when Ridley knocked off Anthony after he covered her ass, she clearly wanted to go save him but it would have gotten them both killed, instead of you know killing Ridley.  

There really is nothing there to pull the fucking sexist card unless you pull it out of your ass and that's whats being done here, just let this shit die *sigh*


Okay, that is too far. I understand the game isn't sexist, just misguided, but my point is that Abbie did not pull it out of her ass. She is seeing the game from how she saw Samus as a female character in games compared to others. To her, it looks sexist to for a male developer to take out what was strong from the female character. Even if it isn't, she had grounds to think so, regardless of whether it was.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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LordTheNightKnight said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Games4Fun said:

After playing it twice from start to finish I still am just boggled at how it is sexist.


Well from the point of view of a lady gamer looking to Samus as a truly strong female character, especially with being female not being an issue before, this change can seem like either trying to downgrade the character (sexist in the sense of not allowing strong female characters), or trying to appeal to female gamers by making Samus stereotypically female (sexist in the sense of assuming that's what lady gamers want).

 

You don't even know anything about the game... you can't prove it's sexist or not cause you've spent all your time agreeing with crappy reviews and articles instead of... you know playing the game... but its obvious you're not gonna do that either... there is a content rule you know so if you've got no proof (ya know content) then it's breaking the rules.


I didn't claim it was sexist. I was just trying to explain why her point of view it seems sexist. Did you actually pay attention to what I wrote?


When there is nothing there to actually BE sexist it can't seem like it... its not called a man giving a woman orders, its called a chain of command and the person giving orders is someone that she loves... she isn't even stereotypically female she was put in the hero role, the one that wants to save everyone and nothing less *spoiler* when Adam had to make the choice to let his brother die so everyone would live she wanted to risk her life to save him, when Ridley knocked off Anthony after he covered her ass, she clearly wanted to go save him but it would have gotten them both killed, instead of you know killing Ridley.  

There really is nothing there to pull the fucking sexist card unless you pull it out of your ass and that's whats being done here, just let this shit die *sigh*


Okay, that is too far. I understand the game isn't sexist, just misguided, but my point is that Abbie did not pull it out of her ass. She is seeing the game from how she saw Samus as a female character in games compared to others. To her, it looks sexist to for a male developer to take out what was strong from the female character. Even if it isn't, she had grounds to think so, regardless of whether it was.

If that's really the case (and frankly, I'm not convinced of that even, this reeks of publicity mongering/shock journalism), it's an extremely juvenile and superficial understanding and interpretation of sexism, and pretty devoid of context from this case even.  Again, a male character could have been slotted into Samus' role in every supposedly sexist scene in Other M with basically no difference in logic or narrative.  

Abbie lost her idolized Mary Sue.  That isn't sexist.  And it definitely doesn't give her the right to throw around that weighted label, it's fundamentally damaging and undermines actual sexism in the industry.  Like that seen in Bayonetta, with it's "really cool" fetishized stripper witch lead.



jarrod said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Games4Fun said:

After playing it twice from start to finish I still am just boggled at how it is sexist.


Well from the point of view of a lady gamer looking to Samus as a truly strong female character, especially with being female not being an issue before, this change can seem like either trying to downgrade the character (sexist in the sense of not allowing strong female characters), or trying to appeal to female gamers by making Samus stereotypically female (sexist in the sense of assuming that's what lady gamers want).

 

You don't even know anything about the game... you can't prove it's sexist or not cause you've spent all your time agreeing with crappy reviews and articles instead of... you know playing the game... but its obvious you're not gonna do that either... there is a content rule you know so if you've got no proof (ya know content) then it's breaking the rules.


I didn't claim it was sexist. I was just trying to explain why her point of view it seems sexist. Did you actually pay attention to what I wrote?


When there is nothing there to actually BE sexist it can't seem like it... its not called a man giving a woman orders, its called a chain of command and the person giving orders is someone that she loves... she isn't even stereotypically female she was put in the hero role, the one that wants to save everyone and nothing less *spoiler* when Adam had to make the choice to let his brother die so everyone would live she wanted to risk her life to save him, when Ridley knocked off Anthony after he covered her ass, she clearly wanted to go save him but it would have gotten them both killed, instead of you know killing Ridley.  

There really is nothing there to pull the fucking sexist card unless you pull it out of your ass and that's whats being done here, just let this shit die *sigh*


Okay, that is too far. I understand the game isn't sexist, just misguided, but my point is that Abbie did not pull it out of her ass. She is seeing the game from how she saw Samus as a female character in games compared to others. To her, it looks sexist to for a male developer to take out what was strong from the female character. Even if it isn't, she had grounds to think so, regardless of whether it was.

If that's really the case (and frankly, I'm not convinced of that even, this reeks of publicity mongering/shock journalism), it's an extremely juvenile and superficial understanding and interpretation of sexism, and pretty devoid of context from this case even.  Again, a male character could have been slotted into Samus' role in every supposedly sexist scene in Other M with basically no difference in logic or narrative.  

Abbie lost her idolized Mary Sue.  That isn't sexist.  And it definitely doesn't give her the right to throw around that weighted label, it's fundamentally damaging and undermines actual sexism in the industry.  Like that seen in Bayonetta, with it's "really cool" fetishized stripper witch lead.


I agree that's not the best interpretation, but that's a false dichotomy to assume that not portraying Samus like this is making her a Mary Sue*. That's another term that is used as pointlessly as sexist. So if you think pointless terms are bad, you should make sure to avoid them as well.

* Such as like Vampire Hunter D, who is a strong, stoic type, but sure as hell not any kind of Sue.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

D IS a Gary Stu; he's perfect in every way like he has Buddha Mode activated and Kikuchi doesn't hesitate to describe how awesome, skillful, or beautiful D is (I've read every volume released in North America; D is indeed awesome and the books are fine, but he is still a Gary Stu at the end of the day). Samus was also a Mary Sue before Other M; she has no defining character traits (and by extension flaws) except being god-like in combat. Even Fusion paints her as a bit of a Sue. Most of the time this is because a Sue is used as a wish-fulfillment fantasy by the creator. In video games they're used as a wish fulfillment for the PLAYER. Which of course means that EVERY SILENT PROTAGONIST EVER IS A SUE. We imagine them as US, as OUR escapist avatar. Samus was that for the Metroid series the same way Link is for the Zelda series or Gordon Freeman is for the Half-Life series. Now that's gone; Sakamoto gave her a personality and now we have to disconnect ourselves from her. She's still Samus, just not the Samus we THOUGHT we knew and that is completely and utterly fine.



Have been playing this game for about 5 hours, either my english is really really bad but so far but I haven't seen/read anything ingame proving  it to be sexist..



If it isn't turnbased it isn't worth playing   (mostly)

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For Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti. -----The Boondock Saints

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"Samus was also a Mary Sue before Other M; she has no defining character traits (and by extension flaws) except being god-like in combat."

Um, by that logic, every other game character is a Sue. The flaw in that notion is that a Sue is not merely those. The plot has to warp itself to fit the character, not the character being hypercompetent.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

LordTheNightKnight said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Games4Fun said:

After playing it twice from start to finish I still am just boggled at how it is sexist.


Well from the point of view of a lady gamer looking to Samus as a truly strong female character, especially with being female not being an issue before, this change can seem like either trying to downgrade the character (sexist in the sense of not allowing strong female characters), or trying to appeal to female gamers by making Samus stereotypically female (sexist in the sense of assuming that's what lady gamers want).

 

You don't even know anything about the game... you can't prove it's sexist or not cause you've spent all your time agreeing with crappy reviews and articles instead of... you know playing the game... but its obvious you're not gonna do that either... there is a content rule you know so if you've got no proof (ya know content) then it's breaking the rules.


I didn't claim it was sexist. I was just trying to explain why her point of view it seems sexist. Did you actually pay attention to what I wrote?


When there is nothing there to actually BE sexist it can't seem like it... its not called a man giving a woman orders, its called a chain of command and the person giving orders is someone that she loves... she isn't even stereotypically female she was put in the hero role, the one that wants to save everyone and nothing less *spoiler* when Adam had to make the choice to let his brother die so everyone would live she wanted to risk her life to save him, when Ridley knocked off Anthony after he covered her ass, she clearly wanted to go save him but it would have gotten them both killed, instead of you know killing Ridley.  

There really is nothing there to pull the fucking sexist card unless you pull it out of your ass and that's whats being done here, just let this shit die *sigh*


Okay, that is too far. I understand the game isn't sexist, just misguided, but my point is that Abbie did not pull it out of her ass. She is seeing the game from how she saw Samus as a female character in games compared to others. To her, it looks sexist to for a male developer to take out what was strong from the female character. Even if it isn't, she had grounds to think so, regardless of whether it was.


When someone has to force things to look sexist when they clearly aren't that is pulling something out of your ass, meaning you have to force the content to fit your argument instead of the content BEING the argument.  And the male developer that created this game has also created all the Metroids save the Prime series, the game fugging fits in perfectly and the emotions aren't off base.

Hell you can't really say she shouldn't have these emotions about fighting Ridley since her emotions have never been portrayed in any of the previous games, they've been talked about in things like the manga, which shows how Ridley terrorized Samus her whole entire life... which means it would be normal to have an initial fear, for fucks sakes people who were afraid of spiders as a child are still fearful of the spiders when they're older just they become more mature and can eventually suppress the fear which usually leads to anger or hate and killing the said spider, just Samus' spider if a fucking space pterodactyl.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

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MaxwellGT2000 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:


Okay, that is too far. I understand the game isn't sexist, just misguided, but my point is that Abbie did not pull it out of her ass. She is seeing the game from how she saw Samus as a female character in games compared to others. To her, it looks sexist to for a male developer to take out what was strong from the female character. Even if it isn't, she had grounds to think so, regardless of whether it was.


When someone has to force things to look sexist when they clearly aren't that is pulling something out of your ass, meaning you have to force the content to fit your argument instead of the content BEING the argument.  And the male developer that created this game has also created all the Metroids save the Prime series, the game fugging fits in perfectly and the emotions aren't off base.

Hell you can't really say she shouldn't have these emotions about fighting Ridley since her emotions have never been portrayed in any of the previous games, they've been talked about in things like the manga, which shows how Ridley terrorized Samus her whole entire life... which means it would be normal to have an initial fear, for fucks sakes people who were afraid of spiders as a child are still fearful of the spiders when they're older just they become more mature and can eventually suppress the fear which usually leads to anger or hate and killing the said spider, just Samus' spider if a fucking space pterodactyl.


Just because you don't follow her logic does not mean it is forced. You have to look at it in the context of female characters in gaming. Not saying that makes it right, just that it shows where she is coming from.

You don't have to agree with her. Just stop pretending she's trying to just put this game down for no reason.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Farmageddon said:

Oh please, I bet if any of the male naysayers saw a Ridley-like beast popping out in their front they'd go mental a lot worse than Samus did.

I find it sexist to find that sexist :P


Are you kidding? You have to do better then that.

Samus was strong silent and kicked ass

Now she shrinks and a man has to save her?  And she is so scared that she allows someone to die?  I'm surprised Sakamoto  didn't make her wear a school girl uniform.

Ripley in Aliens had maternal instincts but she didn't shrink she kicked ass.  So if you have to bore us with maternal instinct and if you have to bore us with cutscenes at least do the character right. 



Damn... now I REALLY hope Link keeps his mouth shut for the rest of his pixelated life...

IMO I don't think it's sexist at all. People are taking it too far....