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Forums - General Discussion - Mafia Round 19 - Game Thread

theRepublic said:

Mine doesn't say Gods.

What mine said was pretty conspicuous, so it gave me the impression that other pro-town roles might have similar wording.  Apparently, I was wrong.

Mine doesn't say "Gods".  To be a little less vague.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

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Khuutra said:
theRepublic said:

Mine doesn't say Gods.

What mine said was pretty conspicuous, so it gave me the impression that other pro-town roles might have similar wording.  Apparently, I was wrong.

This is very interesting to know, but-

There's a rule about quoting your role PM for a reason, guys. Like everyone name-claiming all at once, it would ruin the game. Talking about specific wording in your PMs is in violation of that rule.

I understand it was innocent (so to speak) but we should move away from that sort of thing.

Not that I believe you, Republic, are necessarily innocent. This would be a very interesting feint-within-a-feint.

I didn't quote a single thing in my PM.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
Switch - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (2019)
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Wii U - Darksiders: Warmastered Edition (2010/2017)
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theRepublic said:

Mine doesn't say Gods.

What mine said was pretty conspicuous, so it gave me the impression that other pro-town roles might have similar wording.  Apparently, I was wrong.


ok, then forget what I said about me trusting you then. :P



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

theRepublic said:
Khuutra said:

This is very interesting to know, but-

There's a rule about quoting your role PM for a reason, guys. Like everyone name-claiming all at once, it would ruin the game. Talking about specific wording in your PMs is in violation of that rule.

I understand it was innocent (so to speak) but we should move away from that sort of thing.

Not that I believe you, Republic, are necessarily innocent. This would be a very interesting feint-within-a-feint.

I didn't quote a single thing in my PM.

I know. You did talk about specific wording in those PMs, though. It's the spirit of the rule, not the letter.



Khuutra said:

I tend to operate on the assumption that character alignment translates into pro/anti-town alignment. It's a relic of older games I played in, where if you were Volvagia then it was because you ate baby Gorons and if you were the Deku Princess then you were being held captive by Odolwa (yes, all my old Mafia games were Zelda themed).

Operative assumption concerning God of War is that the perspective is Kratos's; I didn't read the OP, and didn't notice that this isn't the case. GoW3_ever has kind of surprised me in framing the destructive forces moving against Olympus as Mafia and Zeus himself as Town - which is to say, Olympus is the status quo. Apparently.

I add in apparently here because even that may not be true.

Now, that operative assumption - that Kratos is the protagonist - would mean Zeus is the antagonist. Ergo, if Kratos is not the protagonist, then Zeus may not be the antagonist if only because alignments aren't necessarily related.

But even that doesn't work - if we take Zeus as the anchor of perspective here, then the bad guys are anything that acts against the status quo of Olympus - which is to say, Kratos, the Titans, the Barbarian King, potentially Hades (depending on how literal mythological interpretations get), Athena, Pandora, Hepheastos, heroes who tried to change their fate against the will of Zeus (so Icarus but not Daedalus, Perseus but not Thesus, and DEFINITELY not Hercules) are all potential antagonists.

Because as of the second game Zeus was a paranoid lunatic.

Sorry. I went off on a tangent.

Listen, point is this: my natural inclination, at this point, is to distrust the enemies of Zeus. We already know Kratos is anti-Town. Gaia would be an enemy of Zeus. I don't know if Cronos and Atlas would count, since they're pressed into servitude (though they hate him so). Persephone hates Zeus too - a lot. It goes on and on.

I have to consciously push this logic aside. It presents a lot of possibilities for who stands as Mafia.

All that's assuming that the perspective presented in the OP is the perspective of the Town - which Kratos's alignment (and Athena's) would seem to suggest.

I see.  What throws me off about that particular post is that it has you conceiving that the Kratos character could ever realistically be pro-town.  This should not be a logical conclusion for you in particular to draw, regardless of what side of the line Zeus is on.  That is especially true now that you've told us that you begin with the assumption that video-game alignments mesh with the mafia-game alignments.  The more I think about it the less I understand why you picked Kratos as your example of a pro-town role, since it contradicts your own interpretation of the series' real villain.

It raises my suspicions to see this contradiction, especially when combined with some of your other posts, but at this point I'd like to hear what others think.



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Khuutra said:
theRepublic said:

I didn't quote a single thing in my PM.

I know. You did talk about specific wording in those PMs, though. It's the spirit of the rule, not the letter.

I don't think I have broken the spirit of the rule either.  I've seen many games were people described their role in much greater detail than I have here.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
Switch - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (2019)
Switch - Bastion (2011/2018)
3DS - Star Fox 64 3D (2011)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Wii U - Darksiders: Warmastered Edition (2010/2017)
Mobile - The Simpson's Tapped Out and Yugioh Duel Links
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

noname2200 said:

I see.  What throws me off about that particular post is that it has you conceiving that the Kratos character could ever realistically be pro-town.  This should not be a logical conclusion for you in particular to draw, regardless of what side of the line Zeus is on.  That is especially true now that you've told us that you begin with the assumption that video-game alignments mesh with the mafia-game alignments.  The more I think about it the less I understand why you picked Kratos as your example of a pro-town role, since it contradicts your own interpretation of the series' real villain.

It raises my suspicions to see this contradiction, especially when combined with some of your other posts, but at this point I'd like to hear what others think.

How the Hell long did you search for-

You know what

Nevermind

Listen, the assumption concerning Kratos being pro-town comes off of his .... [spoiler] in God of War 3, which makes him into a tragic hero rather than a villain. He's even sympathetic, in the end. You can't use a post from eighteen months ago to try to frame my current mindset, especially with the advent of an entire game's worth of development and catharsis between the two times.

Actually, I'd like you to explain why you thought it reasonable to assume that my opinion of him wouldn't change in the interim-

And why that would have anything to do with the default perspective of Kratos as the protagonist regardless. He is the protagonist, even if he is an enormous villain.



theRepublic said:
Khuutra said:

I know. You did talk about specific wording in those PMs, though. It's the spirit of the rule, not the letter.

I don't think I have broken the spirit of the rule either.  I've seen many games were people described their role in much greater detail than I have here.

All I'm saying is, you and hatmoza had a conversation concerning specific wording in your PMs where your opinions of the guilt or innocence of others was swayed by that same PM talk.

I won't bring it up again. It's not my place; if I was overbearing, I apologize.



Final-Fan said:
Kantor said:
TruckOSaurus said:
OMG! You're right! Bad Khuutra bad!
Kantor I want answers! Why did you feel you needed to change your statement?

I realised we hadn't started yet, and didn't want to start discussing the game.

FoS TruckOSaurus for prosecuting me so relentlessly.

Everything about that post rubs me the wrong way.  I flipped a coin between you and patapon and 

Vote Kantor

I need to go to sleep, but could you explain what about this rubbed you the wrong way? So I know why you want Kantor dead.



noname2200 said:

, since it contradicts your own interpretation of the series' real villain.

It raises my suspicions to see this contradiction, especially when combined with some of your other posts, but at this point I'd like to hear what others think.


Contradiction or no, I think you are taking this game waaaaaaay too serious as to go as far as quoting something Khuutra said almost 2 years ago O_o

lol



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson