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Forums - Nintendo - Another Analyst Suggests Wii 1.5 On the Way

Smashchu2 said:
theprof00 said:
Smashchu2 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Smashchu2 said:

Doubtful. Looking at Kinect, I'll be surprised if it sells 2 million. The hardware just doesn't work. I think this will be the straw that breaks the camels back for Microsoft. I expect this will cause much anger from investors, diehard fans and early buyers. I think they will leave the business soon after.

Yeah, I'm sure that's the experience everyone had with the Kinect. Lets ignore the vast majority of videos where it plays fine. Maybe you're too bias to weigh in on this discussion.

Except all videos of it working fine are faked by Microsoft. There is enough evidence to say their E3 Press Conference was fake. People couldn't even play it there.

It works. It's just a "crappy product for a crappy consumer". It lags, it hangs, and it's limited. But it definitely works. MS' fakeries were done in order to show the game without lag and hang. It was shown on Jimmy Fallon show working, but lagging.

Except for the fact that the Wii worked. It may not have been the best, but it worked. There was not a five second delay when you swung the bat or threw a punch. The reason the Wii Remote is crappy is because it is limited. Everything outside of pointing and pulling is gester based.

Kinect, on the other hand, is bad. It just does not work. People could easily play the Wii. They can not for Kinect,. Kinect will be the fire that kills the XBox line.

@Mr. Puggsly: Kinect E3 videos were all faked. It the most logical explination for it working on stage but when people play it. Most people have noticed that the game acts before the player does anything. You can see this in Kinectamels. Here is proof of it.

Kinect does work. It isn't a 5 second delay, but there is a slight delay. However, given the imprecise nature of the games that have been demonstrated, it really doesn't matter if it's delayed or not. Casuals don't care if they got every single ring, they just care that they are having fun.

Everything at e3 was staged, I agree. The tried to streamline their presentation but at the same time caused a huge stir and really hurt their image in the eyes of the people who watch e3.



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Mr Puggsly said:
Viper1 said:

1. I already told you they had their own camera in development.  Why bother licensing out someone elses technology when you have your own to use? Also think of Sony turning it down.

2. And how much money has MS had to spend to improve Kinect?  Ironically, they've reduced it's capabilities in the process by lowering the RGB resolution and the numbe of points of articulation it tracks.  And it's now only 2 players at a  time. Also think of Sony turning it down.

3. They already have the Vitality Sensor in development.  Working on another peripheral will continue to confuse and segregate the market making it hard to publishers to allocate funding and resources.

4. How do you know what they have planned for their next home console?  I'd say after the insanely profitable and popular DS and Wii console (and it's peripherals) that Nintendo know what they are doing.  I think I'll trust that judgement if they turn down Kinect.

1. What's your point? You still won't admit that was a dumb decision by Nintendo. They knew their camera was a joke and didn't even bother. Kinect technology could have been their next big innovation.

2. Has it been confirmed it only supports 2 players? And even a less capable Kinect is still far more capable than any other camera device we've seen.

3. A vitality sensor you say? Wow, that has potential for a lot of great games. Hopefully it'll have a huge library with tons of variety like the balance board.

4. Of course you trust their judgement. Never have they had unsuccessful hardware. And every console they released dominated the generation.

1. My point is that if they wanted a Kinect like expereince, they would have simply used the camera they developed.  You said MS took the Kinect hardware and poured tons of reousrces in to make it work.  Why in the world would Nintendo want to license out some other camera then pump in millions to make it work when they use their own camera, pum in millions and make it work?   So my point is if Nintendo wanted a Kinect like expereince, they would have donw it with thei rown camera...hence why passing on Kinect makes sense.

2. Yes, confrimed to be just 2 players and you must stand at all times.  Capable doesn't mean it is a valid product.  The Jaws of Life are a very capable product, doesn't mean it makes for a valid video game product.

3. The Vitality Sensor and Balance Board are niche peripherals and they understand that.  Why can't you understnad that so too is Kinect?

4. First off,  the difference between Hiroshi Yamauchi and Saturo Iwata is what has established Nintendo as the market dominating entity it is at the moment.  Under Iwata, they've done exactly as you just said.  However, my point was in regards to believing in their judgement over yours.

 

And one final point, how much more product segregation do you want?  Confuse the market redundant input methods, thin out development resources with multiple products to support, clutter retail space and screw with marketing.  Not to foget the extra $150 needed.  You obviously dont't understand marketing, game development, retail shelf allocation and consumer spending if you think it was a bad idea for Nintendo to pass on Kinect.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 said:

2. Yes, confrimed to be just 2 players and you must stand at all times.  Capable doesn't mean it is a valid product.  The Jaws of Life are a very capable product, doesn't mean it makes for a valid video game product.

Do you have a link for 2 player only and standing at all times? From what I gathered, it depended on what kind of game is being played and what kind of code the developer uses. For the games that MS has shown thus far, they all are "full-body" games and kinect has some trouble with recognizing sitting people's legs for suh games. However, would a game that only uses the gamer's arms require leg identification? I don't think so unless you know better.

 EDIT: also, what does kinect being labeled as a niche peripheral have anything to do with anything? Not trying to provoke an argument here, I'm just wondering why it's such a big deal to be called as such.





theprof00 said:
Viper1 said:

2. Yes, confrimed to be just 2 players and you must stand at all times.  Capable doesn't mean it is a valid product.  The Jaws of Life are a very capable product, doesn't mean it makes for a valid video game product.

Do you have a link for 2 player only and standing at all times? From what I gathered, it depended on what kind of game is being played and what kind of code the developer uses. For the games that MS has shown thus far, they all are "full-body" games and kinect has some trouble with recognizing sitting people's legs for suh games. However, would a game that only uses the gamer's arms require leg identification? I don't think so unless you know better.

No link.  This is just from devs I've spoken with. Getting it to ignore the points of articulation below the rib cage isn't as easy as it sounds like it would be.   The 2 player only bit is because you lose points of articulation per person the more people that are being tracked.  Above 2 players, it loses tracking fidelity to the point that it just becomes frustrating to play anything.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Dr.A.Peter.Nintendo said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
astrosmash said:
Mr Puggsly said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:

Oh come on folks.  Drop this "Nintendo needs to make a slim like the PlayStation or the XBox" nonsense.  Nintendo INVENTED "teh Slims."

 

Everyone one knows Nintendo invented it. Even though it was done with the Atari 2600.


I actually went to someones house who had this a few months ago. I played a little Pac-Man and Donkey Kong. It was rad!

Nice try, but Intellivision did it in 1983, a year before Atari.

I didn't even remember it, but I had the original one and it was a lot cooler! (and actually, despite being bigger, it had a slimmer shape, just like it happened later to XB360 and XB360 Short )

It looks more like a phone

Games included overlays that mapped the pad's keyboard to games' specific commands.

Anyhow, if you look at the control pads better, they look like something else more than a phone: they have the shape of the first Zune, just a lot better.   



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


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Alby_da_Wolf said:
Dr.A.Peter.Nintendo said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
astrosmash said:
Mr Puggsly said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:

Oh come on folks.  Drop this "Nintendo needs to make a slim like the PlayStation or the XBox" nonsense.  Nintendo INVENTED "teh Slims."

 

Everyone one knows Nintendo invented it. Even though it was done with the Atari 2600.


I actually went to someones house who had this a few months ago. I played a little Pac-Man and Donkey Kong. It was rad!

Nice try, but Intellivision did it in 1983, a year before Atari.

I didn't even remember it, but I had the original one and it was a lot cooler! (and actually, despite being bigger, it had a slimmer shape, just like it happened later to XB360 and XB360 Short )

It looks more like a phone

Games included overlays that mapped the pad's keyboard to games' specific commands.

Anyhow, if you look at the control pads better, they look like something else more than a phone: they have the shape of the first Zune, just a lot better.   

It looks like one is labeled "Intellivision" and the other is labeled "Intellivision II" which suggests that the difference was more than just cosmetic. Maybe they were the same, but not much point in checking since Intellivision didn't "invent" the redesigned/refreshed console.

The Magnavox Odyssey from the early 70s pre-dates the Intellivision and it had its share of hardware revisions as well.



theprof00 said:
Smashchu2 said:
theprof00 said:
Smashchu2 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Smashchu2 said:

Doubtful. Looking at Kinect, I'll be surprised if it sells 2 million. The hardware just doesn't work. I think this will be the straw that breaks the camels back for Microsoft. I expect this will cause much anger from investors, diehard fans and early buyers. I think they will leave the business soon after.

Yeah, I'm sure that's the experience everyone had with the Kinect. Lets ignore the vast majority of videos where it plays fine. Maybe you're too bias to weigh in on this discussion.

Except all videos of it working fine are faked by Microsoft. There is enough evidence to say their E3 Press Conference was fake. People couldn't even play it there.

It works. It's just a "crappy product for a crappy consumer". It lags, it hangs, and it's limited. But it definitely works. MS' fakeries were done in order to show the game without lag and hang. It was shown on Jimmy Fallon show working, but lagging.

Except for the fact that the Wii worked. It may not have been the best, but it worked. There was not a five second delay when you swung the bat or threw a punch. The reason the Wii Remote is crappy is because it is limited. Everything outside of pointing and pulling is gester based.

Kinect, on the other hand, is bad. It just does not work. People could easily play the Wii. They can not for Kinect,. Kinect will be the fire that kills the XBox line.

@Mr. Puggsly: Kinect E3 videos were all faked. It the most logical explination for it working on stage but when people play it. Most people have noticed that the game acts before the player does anything. You can see this in Kinectamels. Here is proof of it.

Kinect does work. It isn't a 5 second delay, but there is a slight delay. However, given the imprecise nature of the games that have been demonstrated, it really doesn't matter if it's delayed or not. Casuals don't care if they got every single ring, they just care that they are having fun.

Everything at e3 was staged, I agree. The tried to streamline their presentation but at the same time caused a huge stir and really hurt their image in the eyes of the people who watch e3.

Ummm, you do notice that the game is moving before the player, right?



Smashchu2 said:
theprof00 said:
Smashchu2 said:
theprof00 said:
Smashchu2 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Smashchu2 said:

Doubtful. Looking at Kinect, I'll be surprised if it sells 2 million. The hardware just doesn't work. I think this will be the straw that breaks the camels back for Microsoft. I expect this will cause much anger from investors, diehard fans and early buyers. I think they will leave the business soon after.

Yeah, I'm sure that's the experience everyone had with the Kinect. Lets ignore the vast majority of videos where it plays fine. Maybe you're too bias to weigh in on this discussion.

Except all videos of it working fine are faked by Microsoft. There is enough evidence to say their E3 Press Conference was fake. People couldn't even play it there.

It works. It's just a "crappy product for a crappy consumer". It lags, it hangs, and it's limited. But it definitely works. MS' fakeries were done in order to show the game without lag and hang. It was shown on Jimmy Fallon show working, but lagging.

Except for the fact that the Wii worked. It may not have been the best, but it worked. There was not a five second delay when you swung the bat or threw a punch. The reason the Wii Remote is crappy is because it is limited. Everything outside of pointing and pulling is gester based.

Kinect, on the other hand, is bad. It just does not work. People could easily play the Wii. They can not for Kinect,. Kinect will be the fire that kills the XBox line.

@Mr. Puggsly: Kinect E3 videos were all faked. It the most logical explination for it working on stage but when people play it. Most people have noticed that the game acts before the player does anything. You can see this in Kinectamels. Here is proof of it.

Kinect does work. It isn't a 5 second delay, but there is a slight delay. However, given the imprecise nature of the games that have been demonstrated, it really doesn't matter if it's delayed or not. Casuals don't care if they got every single ring, they just care that they are having fun.

Everything at e3 was staged, I agree. The tried to streamline their presentation but at the same time caused a huge stir and really hurt their image in the eyes of the people who watch e3.

Ummm, you do notice that the game is moving before the player, right?

you don't seem to understand my point. Kinect is playable, but they didn't want any hangups or criticisms like for example what happened with zelda. All those gamers were actors even the little girl with skittles. None of them were actually playing wii, but it doesn't matter to the consumer, the filthy casuals, because none of the games require precision and as long as the game is fun, it doesn't matter if it is moving by even a half second.



EDIT: Point was made while I was distracted by Dragon Quest IX. I take no shame in this though.



jarrod said:
Mr Puggsly said:
jarrod said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Ultimately, if the Wii did a better job moving core 3rd party games it would get more. I think MH3 is the only core game that had genuinely good sales this year. But it still sold significantly less than the PSP games.

What you're arguing is essentially a chicken / egg scenario.  Wii doesn't get AAA core games because it can't sell core games / Wii can't sell core games because it doesn't get AAA core games.  MH3's about the only real one so far, and it's an exception to both rules...

Well I think its proof that the Wii can get respectable sales on already mega popular series. For example, CoD and Resident Evil also has had sold sales. Less popular core games tend to struggle.

These days, less popular core titles tend to struggle regardless of platform.  I'm not seeing much intrinsically unique to Wii in that regard, I can name plenty of low tier core games that struggled on the HD twins, even from the companies behind COD (Activision) and RE (Capcom)... just recently Lost Planet 2, Dark Void, Singularity or Blur come to mind.  Maybe both companies should consider moving core titles away from those platforms?

If anything, the gulf between success and failure seems even more pronounced on the HD twins for 3rd parties, it's arguably a worse choice for the low tier franchises considering the costs and competition.

Well on the HD consoles, there are many core games that have done great and some that struggle. But on Wii, core games that aren't a big IP almost always fail. The PS3 and 360 did a great job selling core games on day one. The Wii userbase however showed overwhelming interest in shovelware, party games, and first party. Which is basicaly the same story today.

I noticed you cherry picked a few core games that didn't do well. First of all you know Lost Planet 2 and and Dark Void got bad reviews. LP2 got some good scores from lesser known sites, but most major websites panned it. Which is a shame because a lot of were excited about LP2. Clearly bad reviews affect HD sales. Dark Void is another game that got shit reviews and people even hated the demo.

Singularity might have been published by Activision, but it was developed by Raven Software. I've never been crazy about their games like most people. When was the last time they had a big hit? The biggest hit they had in years was Ultimate Alliance and that game was awful.

I don't even know what to make of Blur. It was a realistic racer but it had weapons kind of  like a kart racing game. I didn't care for it at all. It was developed by Bizarre Creations and they left MS because they thought the PGR games weren't supported enough. But with Activision's support their racer did even worse even with multiplat sales.

You were able to pick out some HD core games that didn't do well. Its easy to come up with all the core games that did well on the Wii this year. Because I can only think of about 2.



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