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Forums - PC Discussion - Official Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty thread!

There's always a weak point, a place where you can attack and be in range of only one or two turrets . You can get a group of mutas to focus fire these turrets and then make your move and drop your forces. If he's been investing so heavily in static defense your troops should rampage through his base.



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TruckOSaurus said:

You could try a Nydus Worm or Mass Overlords drop. His 5 layer wall will look ridiculously useless when you drop tons of units inside his base.


Nydus Worms have only 200 HP, take a whopping 20 seconds to build, and scream when they start building.  Connecting your own bases with Nydus Worms so you can Maynard drones or expand faster is great.  Putting a Nydus Worm in an enemy expansion with no defense nearby is also great.  Putting a Nydus Worm in a heavily defended main is not great and just an easy way to lose 100/100.

Mass Overlords may or may not be viable.  Really depends on the opponent's defense and the presence of Thors.

Really though, if your T opponent is on 1 base and you're on 7 then just stockpile larva and throw money at the problem.



zgamer5 said:

 but then he gave up after 30 minutes!! it was annoying as hell.


At lower levels, you can't count on your opponent to play it out and win when they have a significant advantage.  In fact, a lot of newer players will throw their advantage away soon after getting it.  The result is that lot of matches keep going for quite a while because the possibility that your opponent will screw up is out there.

At higher level play where you can't count on so many screw-ups, you'll see gg's a lot sooner.  In the meantime, just hang in there.



Words Of Wisdom said:


Nydus Worms have only 200 HP, take a whopping 20 seconds to build, and scream when they start building.  Connecting your own bases with Nydus Worms so you can Maynard drones or expand faster is great.  Putting a Nydus Worm in an enemy expansion with no defense nearby is also great.  Putting a Nydus Worm in a heavily defended main is not great and just an easy way to lose 100/100.

Mass Overlords may or may not be viable.  Really depends on the opponent's defense and the presence of Thors.

Really though, if your T opponent is on 1 base and you're on 7 then just stockpile larva and throw money at the problem.

I agree that Nydus Worms don't apply all the time but in a map like Metalopolis if your opponent forgets to put a spotter in the air vent section you can cause quite a surprise.



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Words Of Wisdom said:
zgamer5 said:

 but then he gave up after 30 minutes!! it was annoying as hell.


At lower levels, you can't count on your opponent to play it out and win when they have a significant advantage.  In fact, a lot of newer players will throw their advantage away soon after getting it.  The result is that lot of matches keep going for quite a while because the possibility that your opponent will screw up is out there.

At higher level play where you can't count on so many screw-ups, you'll see gg's a lot sooner.  In the meantime, just hang in there.

i dont think i have the skill to even reach silver :P. i always change my race which doesnt help, and i dont like practicing against bots, i didnt even finish the campaign( i did 7 missions), also i have terrible micro. bronze isnt that bad, its just annoying when people dont give up and try to rebuild a new base when you have tier 3 units.



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zgamer5 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
zgamer5 said:

 but then he gave up after 30 minutes!! it was annoying as hell.


At lower levels, you can't count on your opponent to play it out and win when they have a significant advantage.  In fact, a lot of newer players will throw their advantage away soon after getting it.  The result is that lot of matches keep going for quite a while because the possibility that your opponent will screw up is out there.

At higher level play where you can't count on so many screw-ups, you'll see gg's a lot sooner.  In the meantime, just hang in there.

i dont think i have the skill to even reach silver :P. i always change my race which doesnt help, and i dont like practicing against bots, i didnt even finish the campaign( i did 7 missions), also i have terrible micro. bronze isnt that bad, its just annoying when people dont give up and try to rebuild a new base when you have tier 3 units.

Sometimes I feel like quitting when I realize I'm lost, some other times I'm in the mood to just keep playing until the end or almost the end.

I try to keep that in mind when I'm starting to get annoyed at people who don't leave when I'm beating them :P



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NJ5 said:

Sometimes I feel like quitting when I realize I'm lost, some other times I'm in the mood to just keep playing until the end or almost the end.

I try to keep that in mind when I'm starting to get annoyed at people who don't leave when I'm beating them :P

That reminds me of a game I played on the original Starcraft where an early Protoss attack had hit me quite hard and I knew I couldn't possibly win but I just kept on making vultures and kept laying mines in my base. It took forever for the guy to make it to my command center.

I had so much fun!



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NJ5 said:
r505Matt said:

How can he just completely dismiss that and say there just aren't as many Zerg players? I know it's mostly just a lot of whining, but there are TONS of new threads everyday on peoples' problems with the Zerg race. Personally, I feel that if a race requires more APM just to be on an even level with other races, something is wrong, and they should address that first, but whatever. I'm not expecting perfect balance even remotely soon, but when many of the players agree that there's something wrong with zerg, even if no one agrees as to what that something is, I think it's pretty careless to just casually dismiss it. Even the usual BS statement of "We're always looking into it but our data suggests otherwise" would have been better.


I though the higher APM was a lot due to the fact that Zerg simply makes more units. But I never play with Zerg, so...

The way most of us use spawn larva is we put a queen and a hatchey on numbers 5-9 or 6-0 (I personally use 6-0). So to use spawn larva, I hit 66v and click the center. Each spawn larva use is 4 actions, and I do it in about 1 second. I don't remember the exact cooldown (30ish seconds?) and so essentially twice per minute per hatch.

I also have to check to make sure I catch it right on time, so even during a micro heavy fight, I'm changing back and forth between my hatchs and the fighting control groups. If larva were autocast, it would be a LOT more fun to play zerg, but it usually feels like a chore to spawn larva.

Zerg's higher APM requirement comes specifically from spawn larva and from needing heavy micro during fights. I play random, so when I roll Terran, I can just attack move a base and go pay attention to something else (expos). It's pathetic. Zerg, you have to run past so you can surround (with lings of course), or you have to set a very very specific path for your mutas, or if there's a thor, you have to specifically magic box and stop right over the thor if you plan to take it out with ur mutas.



Killiana1a said:

I just gotta say I am loving this game. I am replaying the campaign for the achievments. I have a few more playthroughs on Hard and Brutal before my ego is satisfied and I delve fully into multiplayer.

As for the differences between the races, I have played a couple games against the AI and have noticed a few stark differences:

1. The amount of buildings needed to create all units (tech buildings,add-ons, command center, hatchery and nexus excluded):

Terran - 6 total building. Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/race/terran/techtree

Protoss - 9 total buildings. Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/race/protoss/techtree

Zerg - 9 total buildings. Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/race/zerg/techtree

2. Zerg feels and plays different than SC1

First, they nerfed the Zerg mobility off the creep, which I surmise mainly due to the devs thinking players would make heavy use of the Nydus Worm. Second, the moving up of the hydralisk as a tier 2 (Lair required) unit makes very little sense ontop of the movement speed nerf the hydralisk received off creep in SC2. Third, the spellcasters for the Zerg are completely underwhelming to say the least. Finally, the Zerg AOE damage units are few and far between (Baneling is tier 1 and Ultralisk is tier 3).

3. Terrans get their bread and butter with 3 buildings

Marines, Marauders and Medics come at the cost of a 50 mineral/25 gas tech lab add-on to the Barracks. Zerg and Protoss need to drop double the amount for their bread and butter armies. Furthermore, the siege tank can come fairly early.

4. The Protoss Sentry can be gamebreaking

The Sentry's forcefield ability can effectively wall-in opposing players so that they cannot expand. If used on ramps, you can absolutely divide and conquer opposing armies.

5. Zerg is the only race who has to Tier up their hatchery to have access to all their possible units

Hatchery (Tier 1) costs 300 minerals, upgrade to Lair (Tier 2) is 150 minerals and 100 gas, and upgrade to Hive (Tier 3) is 200 minerals and 150 gas. Neither Protoss nor Terran have to factor in these sunk costs when playing. Quite unfair to the Zerg, but not unexpected.

I would add more, but I am still observing and learning. Or as they say at the SC2 forums "What do you know NOOB! You are not Diamond, therefore your opinion doesn't mean diddly squat!"


Ughhhh I typed a HUGE amount to everything here then clicked outside the quote and lost everything -.- still not liking these new forums.

Anyways, I'll give a summary.

1. Hydras own tier 1 toss and all light air. They may be slow off creep, but they are still pretty good. One note, NEVER use hydras against Terran. Never.

2. Infestors are great, well placed infested terrans and fungal growths can literally win you the game. They have a high gas cost for a reason, they are very powerful.

3. Terrans do tech quickly, but if you baneling bust ling rush a teching/turtling Terran, you can cause some serious damage, scouting is key.

4. Wait until you play multiplayer and you see even more awesomeness of the sentry. Place a forcefield on a friendly tank and melee units cannot hit the tank (it doesn't displace the tank). And hallucinations, I've won games with hallucinations. Most hallus take extra damage, but immortal hallus still only take 10 while shields are up. And if you have like 5 real voids and 20 fakes, you can usually charge up those 5 very very easily and scare off most armies.

5. Upgrading the hatch isn't a big deal, the problem is how long it takes. Zerg takes longer than any other race to tech by far. But in terms of late game units, Terran is the most underwhelming. Yes, thors decimate Zerg (and kind of Protoss) but BCs are just, meh. Corrupters and stalkers both just decimate BCs. And btw, broodlords are AMAZING. When I first started, I felt they were very meh, but when you see MMM thors tanks, broodlords are your go-to units. I mean, you still need lings and banelings and infestors and mutas, but the broodlords will be some of the only units that survive and roll into the enemy base after.

And I am diamond so my opinion does matter kind of =) Honestly, you don't have to be high ranked to understand and discuss strategy, but there will be some things you just don't understand until you play more and get better, like I used to think broodlords were awful. And even though I'm diamond, that doesn't mean much, there is still much for me to learn.

Final note, poor ultras =( nerfed to near oblivion.



Words Of Wisdom said:
zgamer5 said:

 but then he gave up after 30 minutes!! it was annoying as hell.


At lower levels, you can't count on your opponent to play it out and win when they have a significant advantage.  In fact, a lot of newer players will throw their advantage away soon after getting it.  The result is that lot of matches keep going for quite a while because the possibility that your opponent will screw up is out there.

At higher level play where you can't count on so many screw-ups, you'll see gg's a lot sooner.  In the meantime, just hang in there.


Partially disagree with that last statement. My friend and I have a very successful strategy in 2v2 that essentially relies on mistakes. And trust me, even rank 1 diamond teams make the mistakes we look for, it's great. I think our record is 29-10 right now, and out of our 10 loses, 6 of them were due to play mistakes on our part (mostly mine, since it's my friend's strat that I've been adopting and reworking). Only 4 times out of almost 40 games did we lose due to a superior strat, or better put, it's the only thing that can truly counter our strat. Our last 20 or so games were all versus diamonds as well, so saying our opponents sucked doesn't totally apply.

I would say that anyone who knows even a little bit about Chess or Go will understand the effects pressure has on the mind and how people perform and play. This doesn't change even for pros. It's all about taking flow and forcing your pace at your opponent.