Forums - Sales Discussion - I just realized that Nintendo will stay in first place for a long time

What is that missing part?

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"Maybe Wii Sports is the best piece of art ever created but you just can't see it, like it happened to a lot of people with Moby Dick and Mozart"

Do you really think this is plausible?

Qays said:

What is that missing part?

That is a question we've been asking since we made the term art up. sums it up pretty well.

In truth, art is merely an opinion. What you think of as art, is not the same as what I think of as art. The missing part is that I do not think it is art. That's it. Since I do not think its art, it is not art to me. Plenty of people agree with me. You think it is art, i'm sure there are people who agree with you.

By its very nature, art is in the eye of the beholder, much like beauty.

Get over this fact and quit trying to make people conform to your ideas of what are good or bad games.

A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.

"The missing part is that I do not think it is art. That's it."


mai said:
Qays said:

A good book is Ficciones.

A good album is My Life in the Bush of Ghosts.

A good collection of poetry is the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam.

A good film is Festen.

A good game is Demon's Souls.

Elaborate your choices, please, in more details.

So no thoughts on that matter whatsoever?

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Qays said:

"Qays, i'd be very interested in you producing any kind of research or analysis that supports you "people who dont like video games purchase a Wii" claim and your "The only games that drive Wii demand are WiiFit and Wii sports" claim. Honestly, is there anyway you can show us it isn't something you made up on the spot?"

Ummm, how about the fact that most of the bestselling games on the Wii are shallow sports sims, party games, minigames, etc?

Let's take a look at every Wii game that's sold more than four million:

Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit Plus, M&SOG, Mario Party 8, Link's Crossbow Training, Guitar Hero III

Mario Kart Wii, NSMBW, SSBB, SMG, Twilight Princess

Of these games only the five that I set aside have any sort of merit as video games. The absolute majority of the bestselling Wii titles are shovelware. What clearer evidence do you need? People don't buy the console to play good games, generally speaking (there will always be exceptions). They buy the console to play utter tripe.

"Just face it, Nintendo has simply done a better job of making software people WANT to play and purchase. And if gamerankings is to be believed, they are have made the two highest quality games of this generation. Either way, if you argue art or sales... you lose."

Lol. This is what baffles me about arguing with Wii fans. My problem isn't with Mario, it's with the shovelware. I've never once questioned Super Mario Galaxy's artistic merit. The problem is that the very presence of  Super Mario Galaxy is not enough to change the fact that the Wii sells largely on the back of shovelware. Similarly, the very presence of Super Mario Galaxy as a sort of killer app does not change the fact that of the truly excellent games released this generation, the overwhelming majority have been on the 360 and the PS3.

Ok, if your claim is that you can correlate high-volume games with demand driving..then that's fair. There are certainly holes in that, such as why would the games you consider of video game merit still be able to sell so well to the same people that seem to only want "tripe."

If you're going to make that comparison then I demand you be fair.

Here's PS3's >4m sellers: Modern Warfare 2, Grand Theft Auto 4, COD: Modern Warfare, MGS4, and FF13.

Of those games only MGS4 and GTA4 can be considered works of art... while the others are more like low-brow Stephanie Meyers novel. SO by your theorem, Shovelware also drives PS3 demand.

360 doesnt fare any better: The >4m sellers on 360 are: MW2, GTA4, COD4: MW, COD5: WaW, Halo 3, Gow, Gow2, Halo 3: ODST, Assasin Creed, Forza 3, and GH3.

You already ruled out GH3. I'm ruling out Halos and GoWs, unless of course you consider B-movie plots ans High school film class caliber characterization art. CODs were also ruled out by myself since they are definitely the Miley Cyrus songs of gaming. That really only leaves Forza 3 and AC. So again, by your own theorem... shovelware drives 360 demand. 


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"So no thoughts on that matter whatsoever?"

Do you have a specific question?

You're confusing two separate trains of discussion in this thread. The art discussion is a new one, the post you quoted was discussing the overall quality of the games that most people buy Wiis for. God of War and Halo are vastly, vastly superior as games to Wii Fit and Wii Sports.

Qays said:

"So no thoughts on that matter whatsoever?"

Do you have a specific question?

Give your opinion on why those works are good.

Is still don't get why one would say that the Wii is a succes because they ''stayed Nintendo'', with games like Wii Fit and Wii Sports being such a succes witch they never had in the past.

Besides you never know what the next gen will bring. Everyone agreed Nintendo was starting to dominate 15 years ago untill the Playstation came out.

Also a Wii 2 won't be a succes, just as a Gamecube 2 wouldn't have been. In other words Nintendo will have to innovate yet again to keep their momentum, and i don't see anything they could come up with that will have as much of a impact as motion controls?(and don't say glassless 3D, because that would mean Nintendo would have to start manufacture tv's...).