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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Official Metroid Other M Thread

Stefan.De.Machtige said:
KylieDog said:

Actions speak louder than words.  For a silent protagonist this is expecially true.  Prime 3 did it best imo.

Action is not a story.

Some social interaction begins to tell a story. History, reflection, friendship... you need some reaction for this - a soundboard. One person at least, hell even a computer would do.   

Events are the very definition of a story, and events require no narration.

Are you goign to argue about storytelling, now? Because if you like I can find stories where no one speaks. There are entire schools of film design related to movies with no dialogue.

Shit, have you ever read The Old Man and the Sea? Come on.



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Khuutra said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
Khuutra said:

That is subtle storytelling. The only way to argue that it isn't is if you don't undertand what subtlety is. What does it say about Samus? It can say quite a lot: it says that she still has an attachment to the Chozo, that the destruction of a temple where no Chozo have lived for decades still wounds her. It says she's still a human who experiences nostalgia and loss, and it does all of that without five-or-ten-minute-long cutscenes with too much internal monologue. Subtlety is about communication with minimum words, minimum action.

Prime had storytelling in spades, but you had to look for it. That's what made it so great.

Which means you - the gamer - have to make up an story! Isn't that the prove it doesn't have a real story?

Let's turn your reasoning on mario. How he jumps on enemies, it must show a deep resentment of being a plumber... and the quilt of a runaway sun towards his father.

Face it, Prime had just a premise, with no characterising. From now on metroid will feature a real story. Yay.

Let Samus talk.      

1. No, it does not mean that you have to make up your own story. At most this would bee making up reactions, but it's not that, it's just that you have to look for it.

2. No, that wouldn't mean that it doesn't have a real story.

3. Prime's story literally needed you to look for it, via scan data. Interactive storytelling where you had to initiate the story yourself. That was a genius idea and it's still one of the best forms in th medium, if critically underused.

4. Don't be idiculosu re: Mario. You can say anything yo uwant about the storytelling, the point her is about how he's characterized. And Mario is veery clearly characterizd in all games: he's happy-go-lucky, brave, determined in the face of danger, and has fun on his adventures. Claiming he's not characterized to that degree is blatantly false.

5. What you are saying is blatantly untrue; Samus was characterized. This is not a point that bears debate. You are wrong, factually and objectively.

I do't even mind talking, if it's handled well. This wasn't.

The reason the genius technique you talk about is underused, is because people don't think that is storytelling. Average gamers like to plainly see or play the story.Like a movie, like a book.

Looking for your own story is not a liked form of entertainment. Games are accessible entertainment. Why do you think the Prime series was failing? It wasn't working - too elite. Too wierd. Most gamers couldn't get a connection to it, because it doensn't have a real story. Why do you think most other actiongames have clear stories. Because people want those.   

I used mario as example too show that you can read thing in his actions... which you yourself have to make up.  Which related too the scene you talked about. You imagined that part - she didn't say anything. You filled in the story, and the characterization.

Samus was a character before Prime and was still the exact same after. Which means no characterisation - no personal progress what so ever, which a personal story is about. Prime was just a mission, like a average day in the week. Fun but forgettable. 



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

Stefan.De.Machtige said:
Khuutra said:

1. No, it does not mean that you have to make up your own story. At most this would bee making up reactions, but it's not that, it's just that you have to look for it.

2. No, that wouldn't mean that it doesn't have a real story.

3. Prime's story literally needed you to look for it, via scan data. Interactive storytelling where you had to initiate the story yourself. That was a genius idea and it's still one of the best forms in th medium, if critically underused.

4. Don't be idiculosu re: Mario. You can say anything yo uwant about the storytelling, the point her is about how he's characterized. And Mario is veery clearly characterizd in all games: he's happy-go-lucky, brave, determined in the face of danger, and has fun on his adventures. Claiming he's not characterized to that degree is blatantly false.

5. What you are saying is blatantly untrue; Samus was characterized. This is not a point that bears debate. You are wrong, factually and objectively.

I do't even mind talking, if it's handled well. This wasn't.

The reason the genius technique you talk about is underused, is because people don't think that is storytelling. Average gamers like to plainly see or play the story.Like a movie, like a book.

Looking for your own story is not a liked form of entertainment. Games are accessible entertainment. Why do you think the Prime series was failing? It wasn't working - too elite. Too wierd. Most gamers couldn't get a connection to it, because it doensn't have a real story. Why do you think most other actiongames have clear stories. Because people want those.   

I used mario as example too show that you can read thing in his actions... which you yourself have to make up.  Which related too the scene you talked about. You imagined that part - she didn't say anything. You filled in the story, and the characterization.

Samus was a character before Prime and was still the exact same after. Which means no characterisation - no personal progress what so ever, which a personal story is about. Prime was just a mission, like a average day in the week. Fun but forgettable. 

You are not in a position to speak for anyone but yourself; appeals to majority opinion are useless, here.

Speaking is not necessary for characterization.

You are wrong.



Khuutra said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
Khuutra said:

1. No, it does not mean that you have to make up your own story. At most this would bee making up reactions, but it's not that, it's just that you have to look for it.

2. No, that wouldn't mean that it doesn't have a real story.

3. Prime's story literally needed you to look for it, via scan data. Interactive storytelling where you had to initiate the story yourself. That was a genius idea and it's still one of the best forms in th medium, if critically underused.

4. Don't be idiculosu re: Mario. You can say anything yo uwant about the storytelling, the point her is about how he's characterized. And Mario is veery clearly characterizd in all games: he's happy-go-lucky, brave, determined in the face of danger, and has fun on his adventures. Claiming he's not characterized to that degree is blatantly false.

5. What you are saying is blatantly untrue; Samus was characterized. This is not a point that bears debate. You are wrong, factually and objectively.

I do't even mind talking, if it's handled well. This wasn't.

The reason the genius technique you talk about is underused, is because people don't think that is storytelling. Average gamers like to plainly see or play the story.Like a movie, like a book.

Looking for your own story is not a liked form of entertainment. Games are accessible entertainment. Why do you think the Prime series was failing? It wasn't working - too elite. Too wierd. Most gamers couldn't get a connection to it, because it doensn't have a real story. Why do you think most other actiongames have clear stories. Because people want those.   

I used mario as example too show that you can read thing in his actions... which you yourself have to make up.  Which related too the scene you talked about. You imagined that part - she didn't say anything. You filled in the story, and the characterization.

Samus was a character before Prime and was still the exact same after. Which means no characterisation - no personal progress what so ever, which a personal story is about. Prime was just a mission, like a average day in the week. Fun but forgettable. 

You are not in a position to speak for anyone but yourself; appeals to majority opinion are useless, here.

Speaking is not necessary for characterization.

You are wrong.

 

1.Then explain to me why the techinque of finding your own story is barely used? Is it not logical to say that most gamers don't like it. Can't we conclude that? 

Big entertainment sells, not? If this type of play doesn't sell much, is it then a lesser form of entertainment? 

2. Character interaction is. Smaus must relate to something. Hell, it could even be the ship, or some metroid-baby. And speaking helps a lot with that.

3. Am i? Why?



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

Stefan.De.Machtige said:
Khuutra said:

You are not in a position to speak for anyone but yourself; appeals to majority opinion are useless, here.

Speaking is not necessary for characterization.

You are wrong.

1.Then explain to me why the techinque of finding your own story is barely used? Is it not logical to say that most gamers don't like it. Can't we conclude that? 

Big entertainment sells, not? If this type of play doesn't sell much, is it then a lesser form of entertainment? 

2. Character interaction is. Smaus must relate to something. Hell, it could even be the ship, or some metroid-baby. And speaking helps a lot with that.

3. Am i? Why?

1. No. Lack of usage by producers does not indicate lack of enthusiasm by consumers.

2. Metroid Prime is the best-selling Metroid game and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. Other M will not be off to a strong enough start to even approac it. If this is your only metric, then clearly Prime's storytelling is superior.

3. Samus did react in the end of Prime, and react to several things throughout that game and the rest of the Prime games (and the earlier games, no less). Speaking was not necessary.

4. You are consistently wrong about what constitutes storytelling, characterization, and character development.



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I must say, I liked Samus much more as a character before Other M. She kept her mouth shut and got the job done like a professional! She was intruiging and mysterious and you got the feeling she was a real loner. But like in the example Khuutra used, she was "human" at the right times. That is ALL I ever wanted to know about her!

Her narration in Other M sounds like a teenager reading out her diary entries in her head! All that crap about giving a thumbs down instead of a thumbs up. Now I think she's a smartass!



I saw the offending scene, and i must say it wasn't nearly as awkward seeing it finally.

 

Really, the only problem with the scene is that Ridley grabs her because she panicked. Even if she had fought back, it would've brought the scene together beautifully and lost all "damsel-in-distress" undertones. Viewed in its entirety, it really isn't as damaging as people have been making it out to be, though i'd be lying if i said i was entirely comfortable with it

 

Although i will reiterate that that tentacle thing that shoots missiles is harder than most bosses. I got killed by him once, and survived with a sliver the second time. Ridley took off only 2 of four tanks, first try.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

how do you do the light melee attack consistently...do you have to hit it when an enemy takes a swing at you?




Mr Khan said:

I saw the offending scene, and i must say it wasn't nearly as awkward seeing it finally.

 

Really, the only problem with the scene is that Ridley grabs her because she panicked. Even if she had fought back, it would've brought the scene together beautifully and lost all "damsel-in-distress" undertones. Viewed in its entirety, it really isn't as damaging as people have been making it out to be, though i'd be lying if i said i was entirely comfortable with it

 

Although i will reiterate that that tentacle thing that shoots missiles is harder than most bosses. I got killed by him once, and survived with a sliver the second time. Ridley took off only 2 of four tanks, first try.


See it's really if you figure out the pattern fast and figure out what you need to do, with Ridley I got owned so hard so many times, with the first boss however I ran over him.  Sometimes you get lucky and find what works first time others its trial and error.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

Is it worth play this metriod if I never have played any before and have no intention to play the old ones?

Will I be lost in the story? Is the gameplay fun enough to jump in not caring about the previous story.