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Forums - Sales Discussion - Its time to admit it. PS3 will NEVER overtake 360.

Solid_Snake4RD on 07 July 2010
Mr Puggsly said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Mr Puggsly said:

4) Unlikely, but we'll see.

how is it unlikely?,they are already making profit.

5) I wonder how much they'll make off Bluray royalties. Was it worth making the PS3 a disaster?

do you even have any idea what you can make from a formaty royalties.the losses made by the PS3 will be easily wiped out

Were the standard DVD royalties that worthless?

they weren't worthless but they were dying and slowly decreasing in amount to as DVD forum cuts the royalty fees to continue demand

and if they didn't go with BLU-RAY then HD-DVD would have won and they  would have got nothing.

but now they are getting both DVD and BLU-RAY royalties

How long is it gonna take for Bluray to be the dominant media for movies and video games? Sony took a big risk, when will it be worth it?

it will be a dominant format next gen like the DVD when its cheap and with PS4 it will be cheap 

SONY took a risk depending on the PS brand being able to push BLU-RAY and they were succesfull

6) Nobody said it didn't have value. But Sony hurt the brand with this PS3 disaster. Its been a step down, not a step up.

SONY hurt the brand but the brand isn't dead.its still competing very much at a higher price and blu-ray has also won.

7) Well I think trying to reduce damage to the Playstation brand is damage control.

how is it damage control.it is normal business

it would only be called damage control if they didn't know that the brand was going to be damaged.

with the high price they knew it would be damaged and make loss.so that isn't damage control but more like normal business strategy.

4) Mkay, we'll have to wait and see. I predict losses, you don't. What's left to say?

but how do you predict a loss,predictions have reasons

5) Seems like a lot of people get royalties from Bluray. Lets all hope their share is enough to cover the PS3.

and SONY has a huge chunk.Blu-ray is succesful because of SONY making loss so don't think that they won't get enough

6) I wish we could find out how much those royalties are. It seems a lot of major companies have their hand in the pot.

SONY,PANASONIC,PHILIPS have the biggest.

and again SONY would get its bigger share for single handedly making blu-ray succesfull

7) More like monkey business! I still call it damage control when you hurt a brand and waste a ton of money in hopes your fans don't go elsewhere.

damage control is only when the company doesn't know that it is hurting its own property

not when company knows that its going to hurt its own property.its more of a strategy


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jarrod on 07 July 2010
Solid_Snake4RD said:
jarrod said:
huaxiong90 said:
jarrod said:
iWarMachine said:

damn...this is the most derailed thread ever! and LOL at the guy saying that exclusives doesn't matter... dude, the exclusive games are what makes you choose between consoles...yeah, sure you can play bayonetta in the 360 instead of god of war 3...but in the ps3, i can play both, and with the 360 i can't.

Well, in that case you'll also be playing a gimped Bayo. :/

Not all multiplatform releases are created equal, literally, and this is something that at least historically has tended to favor 360.  Of course there are also cases where the PS3 rev comes out ahead (Burnout Paradise, FFXIII) but those tend to be exceptions for the most part. 

Does a few minor graphical differences really matter? lol.

People say RDR on PS3 is gimped. When I played both versions, the ONLY differences I noticed are a loss of shadows in the intro scene for the PS3 version, and more foliage in the Xbox 360 version. But at the end of the day, both versions are flawed.

Bayo PS3 is more than just graphical differences, it's actually performance based (the engine chugs) and it impacts gameplay.  Sometimes the differences are small, or purely visual, but that's not the case for Bayonetta.

talking about BAYONETTA,you should also take into advice that the devs didn't do a good job porting so don't blame PS3

Well, the developers of Bayonetta didn't port the game at all.  Sega handled it, Platinum only worked on the 360 version.



Solid_Snake4RD on 07 July 2010
Killiana1a said:

As I stated earlier in this thread, Sony took a $4.7 billion loss from when the PS3 was released until it started becoming profitable, which was around 2009.

PS3 wasn't profitable in 2009,it was just that the software sales could cover the minor loss PS3 SLIMMER were making

That $4.7 billion was a real cost incurred by Sony and until they manage to recoup that $4.7 billion and then some from Walkman sales, television sales, or whatever, then the PS3 cannot be considered a worthwile, profitable venture that beckons a PS4.

PS3 made way for blu-ray royalties and cheaper PS4 and still be a big brand  with good sales at high price,now how is that not worthwhile

All of that profit the PS3 is making now is what Accounting 101 calls a "credit" and that $4.7 billion loss is what Accounting 101 calls a "debit." Sony has a lot of credits to make from the PS3 in order to remove the parentheses from the red (4.7) billion.

how they will recover:

BLU-RAY profits

PS3 profits from now on

PS4 profits

BLU-RAY helping SONY's other divisions

I am just wondering what kind of uninformed investor invests in companies such as Sony who have shown with the PS3, that they are willing to take a $4.7 billion loss and still have another $5 billion loss via the PS4 in the next 5 years?

how are they making another $5billion loss via PS4???????-stop bullshiting

and those uninformed investors that you talk about are gonna profit big in the future

 

Now, I am assuming: 1. There will be a PS4 and 2. Sony and Kaz Hirai will try to 1up Nintendo and Microsoft by putting out another overpriced vanity machine (PS4) at a price all except the most fervent of Sony supporters will not buy.

how will they overprice it now that the blu-ray has been established and its cheap????????

again stop bullshitting

I don't wish death on Sony as I have been a consumer of their product in my younger years, I just wish they would own up to their past mistakes,

wat mistakes????????

hop some heads off in their company,

how is that gonna help

and get back to the basics by prioritizing what products are making a profit, continue to make those profitable products, and shut down the products and company divisions who are running at a loss,

so you want them to provide us with shit products but profit,good consumer you are.die in hell as other don't want this

while being subsidized by the more profitable product divisions.

taking losses for future profits isn't foolish


Solid_Snake4RD on 07 July 2010
jarrod said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
jarrod said:
huaxiong90 said:
jarrod said:
iWarMachine said:

damn...this is the most derailed thread ever! and LOL at the guy saying that exclusives doesn't matter... dude, the exclusive games are what makes you choose between consoles...yeah, sure you can play bayonetta in the 360 instead of god of war 3...but in the ps3, i can play both, and with the 360 i can't.

Well, in that case you'll also be playing a gimped Bayo. :/

Not all multiplatform releases are created equal, literally, and this is something that at least historically has tended to favor 360.  Of course there are also cases where the PS3 rev comes out ahead (Burnout Paradise, FFXIII) but those tend to be exceptions for the most part. 

Does a few minor graphical differences really matter? lol.

People say RDR on PS3 is gimped. When I played both versions, the ONLY differences I noticed are a loss of shadows in the intro scene for the PS3 version, and more foliage in the Xbox 360 version. But at the end of the day, both versions are flawed.

Bayo PS3 is more than just graphical differences, it's actually performance based (the engine chugs) and it impacts gameplay.  Sometimes the differences are small, or purely visual, but that's not the case for Bayonetta.

talking about BAYONETTA,you should also take into advice that the devs didn't do a good job porting so don't blame PS3

Well, the developers of Bayonetta didn't port the game at all.  Sega handled it, Platinum only worked on the 360 version.

whover did it,they did a bad job like most others,why blame PS3 for it?



Solid_Snake4RD on 07 July 2010
thx1139 said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
thx1139 said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
thx1139 said:
slowmo said:

Why did this discussion turn into a debate over profits?  The thread is about whether the PS3 will overtake the 360 so I don't see the relevance of which company makes more money personally unless you're discussing current financials which could effect future pricing.

Profit has to come into the discussion.

It is simple really will Sony be willing to sell the PS3 at a loss the remainder of this generation to catch the 360?  I for one believe Sony is now at a place where profit is more important than making thier fans happy by trying to beat the 360.

Think of it this way. If come this fall Sony sees that they will sell 13 million this fiscal year will they cut price $50 so they can reach the 15 million goal and lose like $50 per console on about 7 million consoles.

" lose like $50 per console on about 7 million consoles."

how will they lose $50 on million??????

Dont know what you are asking.  They are basically breaking even on the PS3 right now. So a $50 price cut to boost sales from 13 to 15 million causes additional losses for the sake of 2 million extra console sales.  The reason I say 7 million is because to sell the additional 2 million consoles they will need to make the price change before the holiday sales period. I guestimated that from that time (say Nov 1) through March 31 2011 they would sell 7 million consoles at $250 rather than 5 million at $300.

we don't know if they are breaking even.

stop bullshting trying to make people believe that PS3 just doesn't make profit

SONY CFO at FY09-10 FINANCIAL REPORT MEETING said PS3 started making profit in USA under$10 in  JAN-MAR period

in may they induced  the RSX 40nm which will make more profit.

don't forget that in JAPAN they were already making profit as they sell for $340 there.

even in Europe they were selling at a higher cost.

 

even after this if you think they are just breaking even,then you have gone bonkers.

 

and for your info if they do a $50 PRICE-CUT it will do alot more than just 2m PS3's

now if they are already getting 15m projected PS3 sales without a price cut then they will not make it but if the impact of 360 doesn't allow it then they will.

i think by the above mentioned cost cuts and profits SONY is making,if they cut the price by $50 they will be  losing a minor amoutn and not full $50 as you say.

now that minor loss can be made by Software sales like it was done when PS3 SLIM was released and Software sales were making the minor loss on PS3 SLIM's

and don't forget the profits they would make on bundles,250gb ones which alot of people will buy once that gets down to $299 and accesaries.

 

once more thing,32nm  is incoming by the end of this year and other hardware costs keep decreasing as time goes.

 

 

NOW EVEN after all this you think that PS3 will just continue to lose then what can i say.I can't treat a patient like you

Doesnt jive with what Sony said last month

"This year is the first time that we are able to cover the cost of the PlayStation 3," Shuhei Yoshida, president of Sony's Worldwide Studios, told IGN. "We aren't making huge money from hardware, but we aren't bleeding like we used to."

http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/06/29/ps3-making-money-no-price-cuts.aspx

how does that jive with anything.

it depends on their expectations what huge money is for them



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huaxiong90 on 07 July 2010
jarrod said:
huaxiong90 said:
jarrod said:
iWarMachine said:

damn...this is the most derailed thread ever! and LOL at the guy saying that exclusives doesn't matter... dude, the exclusive games are what makes you choose between consoles...yeah, sure you can play bayonetta in the 360 instead of god of war 3...but in the ps3, i can play both, and with the 360 i can't.

Well, in that case you'll also be playing a gimped Bayo. :/

Not all multiplatform releases are created equal, literally, and this is something that at least historically has tended to favor 360.  Of course there are also cases where the PS3 rev comes out ahead (Burnout Paradise, FFXIII) but those tend to be exceptions for the most part. 

Does a few minor graphical differences really matter? lol.

People say RDR on PS3 is gimped. When I played both versions, the ONLY differences I noticed are a loss of shadows in the intro scene for the PS3 version, and more foliage in the Xbox 360 version. But at the end of the day, both versions are flawed.

Bayo PS3 is more than just graphical differences, it's actually performance based (the engine chugs) and it impacts gameplay.  Sometimes the differences are small, or purely visual, but that's not the case for Bayonetta.

 A patch fixed most of the performance issues. The only unrepairable issue now is the graphics.



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

GodOfWar_3ever on 07 July 2010
kitler53 said:
rutea7 said:
miqdadi said:

In the USA I am sure the PS3 will not catch  360 , It's over there , If I owned a 360 I don't need a PS3 , the games are one and the same , I don't remember seeing two similar consoles in my gaming history , OK U can't play gran turismo (U got Forza) U can't play Killzone (U have Halo) this is not much of a big differance .

The only bright side I see is Blue-Ray support by PS3 (U can purchase a Blue-ray machine still) , Had microsoft choosed to support HD-DVD then it would't have died and Toshiba would be still fighting for it's market share till date.

Anyway in Europe we will have to see if The price cut will change the market there because the PS3 is leading there , The gap has shrunk to 5 Million because of Europe & Japan market.


i'd like to know what are the replacements for other ps3 exclusives in ur opinion, cause just because u might not like them or care about those they are still there and make the ps3 games library a pretty impressive one.

what's the substitute for god of war, uncharted, infamous, yakuza and other franchises that you cant find anywhere else?

@OP: like other people have stated before, i cant say i care that much about the ps3 beating xbox360 in sales. i'm happy with my console of choice, it has a respectable install base that cant be ignored and a great library of games. i know the console still has at least 3 more years to live up to it's full potential, the games will keep coming. that's all i want and expect when i buy a playstation console.

god of war = bayonetta, dante's inferno

uncharted = tomb raider

infamous = crackdown

yakuza = GTA (i'm sort of guessing cause i'm not too familur with yakuza)

dante's inferno = god of war rip-off (as in total carbon copy) which is not half as good.

bayonetta = devil may cry with a chick.its extremely awesome...I'll give you that. But God of War III is too epic for Bayonetta to match.

tomb raider = this franchise has stooped to the levels of mediocrity. it can't hold a handle to uncharted.

infamous and crackdown seem similar. But crackdown 2 has received mixed reviews, while infamous 2 looks like a major improvement over the first game.

last one, I agree.

But, everyone can see that the PS3 has the most diverse list of exclusives...thats a big plus I think. At the end of the day, it all comes down to personal preferance, and the 360 is most definitely not a bad console by any means.



dirkd2323 on 07 July 2010

Never say never, 360 has a year plus head start and is only ahead 5 million units, The last few months PS3 has had a shortage of units, or more would of been sold. Since PS3 slim has come out over 1 year ago, PS3 has pretty much smacked the 360 in sales, for awhile even in America, so yah the last 6 months the 360 has sold 5-10 thousand more units a week, big deal, PS3 has been above 360 on sales board for over a year now, even with this new 360 slim, copy, its only out saling it buy 90,000 a week which will not last, Ps3 is now on year number 4, and is making money, now with PSN plus, most of 360 players are shooter fans , especially in America, Natal, Kinect what ever you want to call it SUCKS for FPS, it will not sale near as good as the PS move, so keep dreamin, MS has Halo Reach and Gears 3 as there big hitters , PS has Killzone 3, Twisted Medal , Infamous 2 , Res 3 , GT5 , Uncharted 3 , Along with PS move. SO xbox fans enjoy this spike in sales, because it won't last long. We still have a nice long ride this gen, What I am most curious about is the new 360s failure rate, can they keep it under 60 percent this time, I hope so , I am so tired of sending mine in to be fixed.



Solid_Snake4RD on 07 July 2010
Acevil said:
Kynes said:

It seems that this link is always relevant:

 

http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=19625436&postcount=90


I love how nintendo always has to offset sony's loses in total.  At least in 10Q1 and Q2.

don't forget that SONY's PS division profited alot of other SONY divisions which didn't happen in Ninty's case



Solid_Snake4RD on 07 July 2010
jarrod said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Mr Puggsly said:

5) I wonder how much they'll make off Bluray royalties. Was it worth making the PS3 a disaster?

do you even have any idea what you can make from a formaty royalties.the losses made by the PS3 will be easily wiped out

Were the standard DVD royalties that worthless?

they weren't worthless but they were dying and slowly decreasing in amount to as DVD forum cuts the royalty fees to continue demand

and if they didn't go with BLU-RAY then HD-DVD would have won and they  would have got nothing.

but now they are getting both DVD and BLU-RAY royalties

5) Seems like a lot of people get royalties from Bluray. Lets all hope their share is enough to cover the PS3.

"Easily wiped out" is something I've never seen supported by hard numbers, anywhere.  Sony's take on Blu-Ray royalties is said to be under 30%,

i would like your numbers when you are questioning others.

tell me why would a comapny spend billions for others profits

and even less than rival electronics maker Panasonic (who also supplies Nintendo's optical formats btw).

no it doesn't make less than Panasonic

 Sony & Phillips basically had to bring so many companies on board to ensure the format's victory

they brought them to take sides adn give their own suggestions and contribute not give them the royalites.

that ways DVD has so many members on-borad but only 9 get paid royalties

(including rival content firms like Disney and initial HD-DVD backer Warner),

Warner didn't have much choice.they were one of the last HD-DVD supported and they already knew that it was going down.even if they had supported it further it would have gone down

that they've locked themselves out of the lucrative sort of royalties they started the platform for... the way things went, they might as well have gone with DVD Forum submission.

yeah right

 Sony's still getting a bigger take than they did from DVD (they barely got anything there, Toshiba's standards really took most)

do you even know what SONY and TOSHIBA were making from DVD,you are just aking everything out of your ass

there were 2 groups for DVD royalties of total 9 companies

Toshiba,Matsushita Electric,JVC,Mitsubishi Electric,Hitachi,Time Warner were in the 6C group

Sony,Philips,Pioneer were in the 3C group

but far, far less than they got off CD-ROM (whose patents, and thus royalties, expired in 2001), and worse they had to basically sacrifice their most valuable product line (PlayStation) in a needless format war of their own making.

no they didn't do it for needless war,you will see next gen

Also, the BR Group has been steeply dropping license fees to help further drive adoption,

every format gtoup does that and that brings more sales which will actually compensate for the smaller royalties perunit but more on overall sales

they've been precipitously dropping fees (far faster than DVD did),

blu-ray has also been adopted way faster than the DVD.DVD only got its major boost in 2000s not in 1996 but blu-ray got it from start

meaning even less return from Sony's perspective.

more sales bring more royalties on overall basis,i don't know how is that lees returns

 At best I think Blu-Ray can be seen as a pyrrhic victory for PS3's failure, most analysts agree the format won't be as lucrative as DVD, CD or VHS,

analysts talk bullshit most of the time.we have seen them fail most of the time.

its funny how you try to prove your point by saying analysts say this,they say that................lol

digital content delivery is on the verge of taking over for film

taking over?.....................lmao

its far away from taking over

and emerging as a force for games,

we will see when that happens

again its far away from taking over

and I'd say it's very arguable if Sony in the long view has actually gained more from Blu-Ray's victory than they have lost from the downfall of and damage to the PlayStation brand...

we can only find that out next gen with PS4 and blu-ray's cheaper years