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Forums - Sales Discussion - Is It Possible For GT5 To OutSell Halo Reach Lifetime?...I Think So!

Michael-5 on 21 June 2010

Now here is my opinion, I'll try to make it short.

Halo games have increased in popularity over time. 6.4 million for Halo 1, 8.4 million for Halo 2, and 11 million currently for Halo 3 (this could go up to as high as 12 million in the long run). X-Box console are more popular then past X-Box's ever were, Halo Reach literally has double the install base, or more then any past Halo title. Halo 3 ODST, a Halo game on a current gen system without a public online multiplayer mode sold 5.2 million units, and it's still going up! 2.7 million gamers played the Halo Reach Beta. This is also the last Halo game by Bungie. Many factors tell me that Halo Reach will be the best selling Halo title ever.

I predict Halo Reach will sell 14.5-17.5 million copies, but I acknowledge that this game could potentially break 20 million sales.

Now Gran Turismo 5 is being sold late into the PS3's life cycle (lets say mid-life), so it's sales figures are more likely to match GT2 and GT4 figures then GT3. Except for GT3, Gran Turismo games usually sell around 10 million units, however a large portion of this games sales are to casual gamers. Since the PS3 console lacks the popularity, and hype, and market dominance the PS1 and PS2 did I think GT5 will sell worse then any past GT game. Gran Turismo also has a proper compeditor now, Forza, and Forza 2 sold 4 million units. Forza 3 is selling better, but my point is those customers already switched to a 360, and unless they buy a second console cannot purchase GT, and this includes many GT fans and hardcore gamers who would normally have bought GT if PS3 had the market dominance PS1 and PS2 had. However this is the first Gran Turismo title with brand named (not knock off) Ferrari's, Bugatti's, and Lamborshinis. Still the game does not have Porsche (only knock off Porsches), and does not feature proper simulated damge. GT only has cosmetic damge to cars, and this generation thats just not enough. Also the playstation has a significantly weaker hold on American game sales, and that is where past GT games trived.

I predict Gran Turismo 5 to sell 7-10 million copies world wide, but I aknowledge that if GT6 does not come out onto the PS3 and the PS3 lasts for an additional 5 years before it is replaced, this game could get up to 12 million sales.

So to me, and I have backed this up with lots of supporting evidence, Halo Reach will definatly outsell Gran Turismo 5. The real question is will Gran Turismo 5 outsell Halo 3 world wide?? That I can't predict, but it will come close.



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JerCotter7 on 21 June 2010
Hyruken said:
Hynad said:

Wait... Neogaf people that appear to be pissed over something?

 

Talk about a revelation.

 

It has been revealed that those 800 or so other cars will still have cockpit view.  Just not the authentic ones like the 200 premium cars.  As usual, people are making a big deal out of nothing.


That is not what they are saying. They are saying basically the textures have been imported from PS2 and slightly touched up. If you look at the link in the first page your see a picture of the premium and standard ones. Acording to gaf there will be no cockpit view from the 800 and all will have windows tinted and have different damage physics. If you look on page 2 your see some clever people have managed to get some screens and the cars clearly have "Gran Turismo 4" written on it.

Now most of us me included probably couldn't give a monkies, but to die hard racing fans it is a big deal. Especially when you compare it to say Forza 3.

The real car it's based on was sponsored by GT4 so why would they write GT5 on it if that's not how it appeared? Also they aren't just PS2 models slightly touch up. And they have the same damage physics. Just the non premium won't have parts falling off like the premium because what's behind the bumper isn't modeled in them so that's why the parts can't fall off. 

Also look at the video in the thread that you are picking posts that have been proved wrong from. Look for the video of the standard cars with the tinted windows. You can still clearly see in the windows to see that there is a roll cage in one rally car. And the non rally car's can be seen to be different inside. Take a look at a few of the cars in this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzyYxxpvyaw That's how GT4 did it. They made it so dark that you could only see an outline of a driver and 2 seats. These models probably have the same detail as Forza 3.



Hyruken on 21 June 2010
Hynad said:

Well, according to Playstation The official Magazine:

The game will indeed have a cockpit view on all of the cars.  As I said.  They won't feature the collision engine among other details. ^_-

 

As I said, Neogaf isn't exactly the referrence.



I think you misunderstand what they are saying.

Ok GT5 has 1000 cars. That is how many cars are in the game that can be played.

There are two types of car. Premium and Standard.

There are 200 premium cars. These are the shiney cars that you see in the videos or demos. They are HD and look as great as great can get this gen. They have full cockpit view, have dashboard detail and have realistic windows. They also use GT5 damage system where they can lose doors, crumple bonnet, and have dents.

There are 800 standard cars. These cars are taken from previous versions of Gran Turismo. They use textures and graphics from older versions. They are touched up to make them look better then they did on previous versions. These cars however do not have a cockpit view, do not have detailed dashboard, have tinted windows and use a different damage system where they have light damage which is just scratches. It is not confirmed yet but people are saying these cars cannot roll, unlike the premium ones.

Now the gaf source thing. That is fair enough if you don't trust them but as far as i can tell most stuff that get's leaked does so first on there. As a website they are not fanboys, they look at info in a neutrual light and are objective. They have multiple contributions throughout the thread proving it. Especially screen grabs which show the texture difference.

As i said above to me that will make no difference. I will still buy it regardless but to petrol heads naturally they are not too happy.



c0rd on 21 June 2010
BMaker11 said:

You all better hope that Reach gets the same marketing treatment that Halo 3 got. I mean, cause think about it. People play Halo for the multiplayer. ODSTs multiplayer was just as good as Halo 3s yet it sold so much less, and I'd chuck that up to marketing. So here's hoping to some Reach Mountain Dew

I imagine you don't know this, so I'll clarify: Halo ODST did not have its own multiplayer. It came with a seperate disc, which was essentially Halo 3's multiplayer. I think it had only one extra mode, similar to horde mode in Gears 2 (if you've ever played it), but that's it. Everything else is Halo 3, so people who bought ODST are essentially people who:

  • Did not buy the first game, so ODST offered a full package.
  • Bought the first game, but were willing to pay $60 for a new campaign and horde mode.

There's a reason we're all basically ignoring the sales of ODST, it's because it isn't a main Halo game.



Michael-5 on 21 June 2010
ElGranCabeza said:
Michael-5 said:

To Solid_Snake4RD

 

Yes the Halo Franchise is growing in popularity, and there is no indication that it is “stabilizing.” Halo has sold 2-3 million more units per main franchise game, abd the X-Box consoles have become more and more popular over time. 4 years into this generation, and the 360 is still holding second.

 

Halo 3 sold 8.1 million copies when the 360 only had 17.7 million units available to play on. Now the 360 has over 40 million units, and that number will easily be above 45 million by the end of the year. How can you still believe that Halo Reach will not outsell Halo 3? It’s obvious that it will. Halo 3 was a 9.5 title, if 85% of Halo 3 owners get Reach and 10% of  the last 22 ( 5 for the rest of the year) million 360 owners get Reach, it will outsell Halo 3.

 

Halo Reach could sell up to 25 million units potentially, do you not understand how popular this franchise has gotten? The X-Box 360 has twice the install base it had during the launch of any prior Halo title, that means it could double any prior Halo games.

 

You can’t just make a response saying my post is flawed, it has so many weaknesses, and make an extremely arrogant and weak response like this.

 

GT outselling Halo is your opinion, and you have no evidence to support your claims.

 

Yes GT3 sold on PS2 before it sold 136 million units, However that very first year it released the game sold about 1.5 million copies (less then Forza 3 look it up!), and PS2 had 20 million units out by then. That still hold the same attach rate as if I gave the game 4 years to accumulate sales. 15 million on a console with 100 million is 15%, 1.5 million on a console with 20 million is 7.5%. Either way it’s much much less then the 25-35% Halo games get, and if I apply that logic, Halo 3 gets an attach rate of 45% and Halo 1 is over 80% since it was a launch title.

 

Your response is just ignorant. Don’t waste my time, do some research.

 

To Hynad: (Regarding the point of these long posts)

 

After I wrote my massive post, I was thinking, why did I bother with that? I came to the conclusion that I really get annoyed by arrogant people. It’s not really about the sales for me, but I’m surprised at some of the Halo numbers I got (soooo high!). I’m just annoyed that some people believe without a doubt that GT5 will be that one super high selling PS3 exclusive franchise. It won’t! PS3 is selling well now because of the huge PS3 slim/price cut they announced last year, but I don’t think that momentum is going to last. This site is mostly composed of PS3 fanboys, and fangirls, and just the stupidity of some of their comments, without any evidence to back it up astounds me.

 

If you look at my profile I have made like 10 posts before here, and after this I do not intend to make any more. I’ll let dumb people be dumb, and wait for the numbers to compound, and summarize all the data on my Game Trailers account (Same name). I’ve been keeping up with sales data for 3 years now, so I think I understand this stuff more then most people.

 

To Solid_Snake4RD (Regarding Competition)

 

The same year Halo 3 was released Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, The Orange Box, and Uncharted, three of the best shooters this generation were released.

 

This fall Halo Reach as to compete with Call of Duty: Black Ops, and Medal of Honour. Much less competition there buddy.

 

Gran Turismo 3 only had to compete against Midnight Club.

 

Gran Turismo 5 has to compete against Forza, Test Drive, Need for Speed, Burnout, Blur, Race Pro, Split/Second, Project Gotham Racing, etc. Remember GT games have accumulating sales, so anything that launches next year is competition.

 

So this whole competition argument favours Halo. Halo has less competition, and Gran Turismo has more. Just more reason to believe Halo Reach will sell 15-20 million.

 

To Hynad: (Regarding your response)

 

I’m not saying I’m right, I could be very very wrong, but almost all evidence I see in this thread supports Halo Reach drastically outselling Gran Turismo 5 sales. I’m asking people to debate this, but biased on the evidence people give in their responses, I don’t think anyone has a good reason to think otherwise. Most people just say, GT5 will outsell Halo because GT 5 is a bigger franchise, or some other silly reason, and I show that no GT is not a bigger franchise, only 1 in 10 console owners pick up a GT game where Halo gets a lot more sales.

 

Like I said boilmaker and hyruken, only intelligent responses, and because of boilmakers response, I am going to make another comment saying my direct opinion (which I haven’t expressed yet)

 

Seriously, I ask you guys to debate this. I only called some people fanboys because I haven’t heard anybody here make a silly comment saying “Halo will outsell GT5 because it’s a better game” or something silly like that. Most of the Halo comments seem supported, but the GT arguments lack foundation.

 

I’ll stop using the term fanboys, I was just getting annoyed at the arrogance of some of the comments.

 

To rossoner (Regarding Halo Reach Pre-orders)

 

Halo Reach has less americas pre-orders then Halo 3, but the game isn’t due for an additional 3 months. Halo 3 only had a little over 1 million pre-orders, and at this rate Halo Reach will likely double Halo 3 pre-orders.

 

To hyruken: (Regarding PS2 year one sales)

 

I remember the PS2 was like $500 for the first few months, and I got mine for $300 about 6 months after launch. Good point, it’s silly how people come after you for a mis-understanding and not me. Are my points accepted then? Does everyone agree with me that Reach will outsell GT5?

 

Now I’m just being an ass, good comment Hyruken.

 

To jarrod: (Regarding Bundles)

 

Nintendo bundled Wii Sports to show the innovation of that console. It severaly helped increase sales, but overall does not cost the same as other full priced games to develop. Wii would probably only of had a $20-30 price difference without the bundle.

 

As for GT5, they should bundle it with a Slim PS3. MGS4 is the best selling exclusive PS3, and it was launched bundled. I remember specifically because the MGS4 edition PS3 was the last backward compatible PS3, and my friend picked it up.

 

A bundled GT5 will defiantly boost sales, but I disagree with you on your original post. I think Reach will outsell GT5 regardless. Past GT games were bundled too (like GT3 and GT4), so I still think 8 million for GT5.

 

Good comment

 

To cOrd (Regarding attach rates)

 

First of all this comment look intelligent, so thanks for posting. You gave a world wide attach rate of Gran Turismo 3 as 25%, so I will accept that. However compare GT3 to Halo 3. 8.1 million units on a console with 17.7 million units by the end of 2007. That’s a 45.8% attach rate, almost double Gran Turismo’s :P

 

As for Gran Turismo gaining popularity, good point, but GT4 sold only 2/3rds as well as GT3, where GT2 only sold about one and a half million less then GT1. A significantly bigger drop, so we can’t assume Gran Turismo is becoming more popular. Halo on the other hand has seen a steady increase in sale, not only of the games, but the comic books too. It’s very likely for Reach sales to surpass 14 million (following the trend halo games have had), but it could do even better since the install base is twice as large as it has ever been before.

 

As for competition, both Halos had a Call of Duty to compete with, Halo 3 had Modern Warfare, Reach has Black Ops. The fact remains that infinity ward Call of Duty games not only sell better, but get better reviews, and until Modern Warfare, Call of Duty was a 1.5 million copy game. Modern Warfare was a much stronger competition then Black Ops was. Halo 3 also had The Orange Box too.

 

Gran Turismo 4 had to compete with Forza 1, but due to the X-Box’s lack of popularity that’s not really that much competition, and GT4 still suffered sales wise. Forza 3 is the most highly rated racing game this generation, it’s more competition Gran Turismo ever had to deal with.

 

Thanks for the comments people


Holy shit, I don't mean to offend you because you obviously put a lot of thought into your replies, but people are not gonna read your posts if all of them are that big. Just saying.


I know..... Sad because I made A LOT of good points. At least after I made them people shut up...

Still



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ElGranCabeza on 21 June 2010
Michael-5 said:

Now here is my opinion, I'll try to make it short.

Halo games have increased in popularity over time. 6.4 million for Halo 1, 8.4 million for Halo 2, and 11 million currently for Halo 3 (this could go up to as high as 12 million in the long run). X-Box console are more popular then past X-Box's ever were, Halo Reach literally has double the install base, or more then any past Halo title. Halo 3 ODST, a Halo game on a current gen system without a public online multiplayer mode sold 5.2 million units, and it's still going up! 2.7 million gamers played the Halo Reach Beta. This is also the last Halo game by Bungie. Many factors tell me that Halo Reach will be the best selling Halo title ever.

I predict Halo Reach will sell 14.5-17.5 million copies, but I acknowledge that this game could potentially break 20 million sales.

Now Gran Turismo 5 is being sold late into the PS3's life cycle (lets say mid-life), so it's sales figures are more likely to match GT2 and GT4 figures then GT3. Except for GT3, Gran Turismo games usually sell around 10 million units, however a large portion of this games sales are to casual gamers. Since the PS3 console lacks the popularity, and hype, and market dominance the PS1 and PS2 did I think GT5 will sell worse then any past GT game. Gran Turismo also has a proper compeditor now, Forza, and Forza 2 sold 4 million units. Forza 3 is selling better, but my point is those customers already switched to a 360, and unless they buy a second console cannot purchase GT, and this includes many GT fans and hardcore gamers who would normally have bought GT if PS3 had the market dominance PS1 and PS2 had. However this is the first Gran Turismo title with brand named (not knock off) Ferrari's, Bugatti's, and Lamborshinis. Still the game does not have Porsche (only knock off Porsches), and does not feature proper simulated damge. GT only has cosmetic damge to cars, and this generation thats just not enough. Also the playstation has a significantly weaker hold on American game sales, and that is where past GT games trived.

I predict Gran Turismo 5 to sell 7-10 million copies world wide, but I aknowledge that if GT6 does not come out onto the PS3 and the PS3 lasts for an additional 5 years before it is replaced, this game could get up to 12 million sales.

So to me, and I have backed this up with lots of supporting evidence, Halo Reach will definatly outsell Gran Turismo 5. The real question is will Gran Turismo 5 outsell Halo 3 world wide?? That I can't predict, but it will come close.


Still a little long but much better, actually readable now. There's no way Halo Reach sells 20 million units unless they bundle it with everything like Kinect and launch it at U$40 like Forza 3. 14.5 million is also pushing it. I'm gonna say 10 million, just under Halo 3. your GT5 seems about right, but I'll say 9 million even if GT6 never comes out on PS3.



ElGranCabeza on 21 June 2010
Michael-5 said:
ElGranCabeza said:
Michael-5 said:

To Solid_Snake4RD

 

Yes the Halo Franchise is growing in popularity, and there is no indication that it is “stabilizing.” Halo has sold 2-3 million more units per main franchise game, abd the X-Box consoles have become more and more popular over time. 4 years into this generation, and the 360 is still holding second.

 

Halo 3 sold 8.1 million copies when the 360 only had 17.7 million units available to play on. Now the 360 has over 40 million units, and that number will easily be above 45 million by the end of the year. How can you still believe that Halo Reach will not outsell Halo 3? It’s obvious that it will. Halo 3 was a 9.5 title, if 85% of Halo 3 owners get Reach and 10% of  the last 22 ( 5 for the rest of the year) million 360 owners get Reach, it will outsell Halo 3.

 

Halo Reach could sell up to 25 million units potentially, do you not understand how popular this franchise has gotten? The X-Box 360 has twice the install base it had during the launch of any prior Halo title, that means it could double any prior Halo games.

 

You can’t just make a response saying my post is flawed, it has so many weaknesses, and make an extremely arrogant and weak response like this.

 

GT outselling Halo is your opinion, and you have no evidence to support your claims.

 

Yes GT3 sold on PS2 before it sold 136 million units, However that very first year it released the game sold about 1.5 million copies (less then Forza 3 look it up!), and PS2 had 20 million units out by then. That still hold the same attach rate as if I gave the game 4 years to accumulate sales. 15 million on a console with 100 million is 15%, 1.5 million on a console with 20 million is 7.5%. Either way it’s much much less then the 25-35% Halo games get, and if I apply that logic, Halo 3 gets an attach rate of 45% and Halo 1 is over 80% since it was a launch title.

 

Your response is just ignorant. Don’t waste my time, do some research.

 

To Hynad: (Regarding the point of these long posts)

 

After I wrote my massive post, I was thinking, why did I bother with that? I came to the conclusion that I really get annoyed by arrogant people. It’s not really about the sales for me, but I’m surprised at some of the Halo numbers I got (soooo high!). I’m just annoyed that some people believe without a doubt that GT5 will be that one super high selling PS3 exclusive franchise. It won’t! PS3 is selling well now because of the huge PS3 slim/price cut they announced last year, but I don’t think that momentum is going to last. This site is mostly composed of PS3 fanboys, and fangirls, and just the stupidity of some of their comments, without any evidence to back it up astounds me.

 

If you look at my profile I have made like 10 posts before here, and after this I do not intend to make any more. I’ll let dumb people be dumb, and wait for the numbers to compound, and summarize all the data on my Game Trailers account (Same name). I’ve been keeping up with sales data for 3 years now, so I think I understand this stuff more then most people.

 

To Solid_Snake4RD (Regarding Competition)

 

The same year Halo 3 was released Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, The Orange Box, and Uncharted, three of the best shooters this generation were released.

 

This fall Halo Reach as to compete with Call of Duty: Black Ops, and Medal of Honour. Much less competition there buddy.

 

Gran Turismo 3 only had to compete against Midnight Club.

 

Gran Turismo 5 has to compete against Forza, Test Drive, Need for Speed, Burnout, Blur, Race Pro, Split/Second, Project Gotham Racing, etc. Remember GT games have accumulating sales, so anything that launches next year is competition.

 

So this whole competition argument favours Halo. Halo has less competition, and Gran Turismo has more. Just more reason to believe Halo Reach will sell 15-20 million.

 

To Hynad: (Regarding your response)

 

I’m not saying I’m right, I could be very very wrong, but almost all evidence I see in this thread supports Halo Reach drastically outselling Gran Turismo 5 sales. I’m asking people to debate this, but biased on the evidence people give in their responses, I don’t think anyone has a good reason to think otherwise. Most people just say, GT5 will outsell Halo because GT 5 is a bigger franchise, or some other silly reason, and I show that no GT is not a bigger franchise, only 1 in 10 console owners pick up a GT game where Halo gets a lot more sales.

 

Like I said boilmaker and hyruken, only intelligent responses, and because of boilmakers response, I am going to make another comment saying my direct opinion (which I haven’t expressed yet)

 

Seriously, I ask you guys to debate this. I only called some people fanboys because I haven’t heard anybody here make a silly comment saying “Halo will outsell GT5 because it’s a better game” or something silly like that. Most of the Halo comments seem supported, but the GT arguments lack foundation.

 

I’ll stop using the term fanboys, I was just getting annoyed at the arrogance of some of the comments.

 

To rossoner (Regarding Halo Reach Pre-orders)

 

Halo Reach has less americas pre-orders then Halo 3, but the game isn’t due for an additional 3 months. Halo 3 only had a little over 1 million pre-orders, and at this rate Halo Reach will likely double Halo 3 pre-orders.

 

To hyruken: (Regarding PS2 year one sales)

 

I remember the PS2 was like $500 for the first few months, and I got mine for $300 about 6 months after launch. Good point, it’s silly how people come after you for a mis-understanding and not me. Are my points accepted then? Does everyone agree with me that Reach will outsell GT5?

 

Now I’m just being an ass, good comment Hyruken.

 

To jarrod: (Regarding Bundles)

 

Nintendo bundled Wii Sports to show the innovation of that console. It severaly helped increase sales, but overall does not cost the same as other full priced games to develop. Wii would probably only of had a $20-30 price difference without the bundle.

 

As for GT5, they should bundle it with a Slim PS3. MGS4 is the best selling exclusive PS3, and it was launched bundled. I remember specifically because the MGS4 edition PS3 was the last backward compatible PS3, and my friend picked it up.

 

A bundled GT5 will defiantly boost sales, but I disagree with you on your original post. I think Reach will outsell GT5 regardless. Past GT games were bundled too (like GT3 and GT4), so I still think 8 million for GT5.

 

Good comment

 

To cOrd (Regarding attach rates)

 

First of all this comment look intelligent, so thanks for posting. You gave a world wide attach rate of Gran Turismo 3 as 25%, so I will accept that. However compare GT3 to Halo 3. 8.1 million units on a console with 17.7 million units by the end of 2007. That’s a 45.8% attach rate, almost double Gran Turismo’s :P

 

As for Gran Turismo gaining popularity, good point, but GT4 sold only 2/3rds as well as GT3, where GT2 only sold about one and a half million less then GT1. A significantly bigger drop, so we can’t assume Gran Turismo is becoming more popular. Halo on the other hand has seen a steady increase in sale, not only of the games, but the comic books too. It’s very likely for Reach sales to surpass 14 million (following the trend halo games have had), but it could do even better since the install base is twice as large as it has ever been before.

 

As for competition, both Halos had a Call of Duty to compete with, Halo 3 had Modern Warfare, Reach has Black Ops. The fact remains that infinity ward Call of Duty games not only sell better, but get better reviews, and until Modern Warfare, Call of Duty was a 1.5 million copy game. Modern Warfare was a much stronger competition then Black Ops was. Halo 3 also had The Orange Box too.

 

Gran Turismo 4 had to compete with Forza 1, but due to the X-Box’s lack of popularity that’s not really that much competition, and GT4 still suffered sales wise. Forza 3 is the most highly rated racing game this generation, it’s more competition Gran Turismo ever had to deal with.

 

Thanks for the comments people


Holy shit, I don't mean to offend you because you obviously put a lot of thought into your replies, but people are not gonna read your posts if all of them are that big. Just saying.


I know..... Sad because I made A LOT of good points. At least after I made them people shut up...

Still


Maybe people didn't reply because they didn't read your points? I know I didn't. I know you're passionate about this and it shows, but you gotta think about the other people man lol



Hyruken on 21 June 2010
JerCotter7 said:
Hyruken said:
Hynad said:

Wait... Neogaf people that appear to be pissed over something?

 

Talk about a revelation.

 

It has been revealed that those 800 or so other cars will still have cockpit view.  Just not the authentic ones like the 200 premium cars.  As usual, people are making a big deal out of nothing.


That is not what they are saying. They are saying basically the textures have been imported from PS2 and slightly touched up. If you look at the link in the first page your see a picture of the premium and standard ones. Acording to gaf there will be no cockpit view from the 800 and all will have windows tinted and have different damage physics. If you look on page 2 your see some clever people have managed to get some screens and the cars clearly have "Gran Turismo 4" written on it.

Now most of us me included probably couldn't give a monkies, but to die hard racing fans it is a big deal. Especially when you compare it to say Forza 3.

The real car it's based on was sponsored by GT4 so why would they write GT5 on it if that's not how it appeared? Also they aren't just PS2 models slightly touch up. And they have the same damage physics. Just the non premium won't have parts falling off like the premium because what's behind the bumper isn't modeled in them so that's why the parts can't fall off. 

Also look at the video in the thread that you are picking posts that have been proved wrong from. Look for the video of the standard cars with the tinted windows. You can still clearly see in the windows to see that there is a roll cage in one rally car. And the non rally car's can be seen to be different inside. Take a look at a few of the cars in this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzyYxxpvyaw That's how GT4 did it. They made it so dark that you could only see an outline of a driver and 2 seats. These models probably have the same detail as Forza 3.



Erm no i am just relaying info they have used. Which has not been proven wrong as you claim because most is photo evidence...... Like

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5487/30vfabt.jpg

 



svt24 on 21 June 2010

gt5 will eat halo alive in sales.



jarrod on 21 June 2010
c0rd said:
jarrod said:
c0rd said:

As for my prediction? I see GT5 selling at least 1.5mil in Japan, 3 million in America, and 5.5 million in Europe, which would clear 10. I just don't know how far it can go after that, though.

Your Japan figure is WAY too high.  GT4 barely cleared a million in Japan, GT5P only sold about 250k (300k were bundled a year later) and GT PSP only did about 250k also.  

Honestly, I think GT5 will be lucky to break a million in Japan, 1.5 would be an insane turnaround for the series there (even GT3 came just shy of 1.5m), where it's been in clear decline (mirroring Mingol almost exactly actually).  More realistically, I think it'll do between just 700-900k.

GT3 was just shy of 1.5mil?

Well, I'm using VGC figures, since I'm too lazy to get anything else. Are you looking at Famitsu / MC / w/e else?

And if you don't mind, what site are you using in particular? Seems you always have the numbers right on hand.

Also, since Japan is a small factor in the success of the latest games' sales, I don't think it'll hurt the 10 million(plus) chances much.

I'm using Famitsu.  Good resources for them are Japan Game Charts, Garaph or Geimin (Japanese, but the have Media-Create data too!).

I tend to agree though, Japan's not too big a factor for GT (and never has been) plus any lost sales there could be easily made up elsewhere.