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Forums - Nintendo - Did Nintendo just Dreamcast the PSP2?

jarrod said:
joeorc said:
jarrod said:
joeorc said:

where do you think a big expense cam from..Multi-core developement is not cheap because of just the hardware it's because of the game engine's have to be built from the ground up..and you mention 3rd party solution's adapt like crazy?

these multi-core game engine's are also for next generation.

they are not going to waste New development cost's sunk into the next hardware revision in any major way. there will be some investment but not nearly as much as it was this generation.

what do you think they did this generation...The replacement for the Wii is going to be late to the multi-core CPU/GPU party

not even how well the Wii has done is going to force them to just disreguard the other platform's..

that's the Main problem Multi-core has it's expensive in man power and Time.

Something Of which Nintendo does not Care much for.

the main problem is many of the chip make's have gone completely with Multi-core so Nintendo can go single core easy like this generation, but many developer's would have multi-core game engine's that they do not want to waste.

or Nintendo goes with Multi-core but developement is more expensive and they get the same treatment as the other system's.

this is not like previous generation's Multi-core development changed that landscape for good.

3rd party's are not going to leave out the PC, PS4, XBOX3 for just one platform not when the majority of CPU's are all being produced Multi-core.

Uh what?  The biggest expenses aren't at all programming, and they haven't been since the 8bit days.  The costs that actually ballooned this generation have to do with art and assets... it's not the fancy threaded engines and complex physics kits that are massively driving up R&D costs, it's the 1080p texture work and 100k poly models and the army of artists you have to hire/outsource to make them.  That's why technologies like Mega/Virtual-texturing and other procedurally generated techniques are so attractive to id, Epic and others in the tech business, because they'll massively slash art costs.

Nintendo's literally going to be at no disadvantage here.  In fact, they'll benefit engine wise from all the matured work and know how 360/PS3 demanded in the 3rd party development community.  Your argument here is literally backwards.

those artist's are not just only main expense, you have sound, production, and yes programming..and the entire team has to program that in. than quite a bit of testing all of which cost money. than cost is replication. packageing. etc. it's all a big effort.

no disadvantage yes they are developer's only had to work on a single core 800Mhz no doubt and that's quite simple vs' 3 or 8 core system's in getting code to run correctly. never mind the fact that the single core development cycle is pretty much to an end. thus if you are not developing on multiple core you have a learning curve.

so no disadvantage here for the Wii replacement maybe not for Nintendo, but for 3rd parties it may even though the Processor's have all been power PC this generation Nintendo may change which processor design. thus if they have no engine built the 3rd party would have to licence or built one. if they do what's the chances of the engine not working on the other system's?

that's the point next generation all the system's will be multi-core this was when Nintendo did not go, next generation Nintendo may have no choice unless they want more 3rd party support like Sony, Microsoft and the PC industry get's the PROBLEM is Most if not all 3rd PARTY developer's are mainly develop Hardcore game's for the PC this generation was a first where the PS3 and the XBOX360 can get game's that only the PC would have got.

in order to be in the same area for a robust system the Wii will have to be over a 1Ghz processor if not more with multiple core's because very many chip maker's are not making anything less.

thus the price would go up ..the next replacement for the Wii may be as much as $300.00

Planning and audio costs are virtually unchanged from last generation, especially for high production titles.  The main R&D increases this gen are in art and programming, and it's like an 9:1 split.  Art costs are insane this gen, and for most devs middleware solutions have blunted significant programming costs.

And most "hardcore" devs made PC games before this gen?  I'm sure that's news to Kojima, Mikami, Suda, Kamiya, Nagoshi, Itadaki, etc. lol.

And actually, an over 1GHz $299 Wii 2/HD/WiFi/whatever is more or less what I'm expecting.  I mean Wii was already 729 Mhz and $249, neither is actually that big an increase (I'd expect over 3GHz at the least really).  And rest assured, Nintendo's likely sticking with IBM (and PPC).  Unlike Sony or MDS, they seem to actually care about backwards compatibility. ;)

and I said most hardcore game developer's for the PC. i was not talking about mainly console developer's only, which frankly is also less and less because 3rd party need as much as they can get. Multi-core increased the cost over all this generation hardware and the learning curve for some developer's to learn it.

as you just stated over 1 GHz right?  what are we talking here 1.5 Ghz, single 2 multiple 1.5 Ghz single core or multiple?

if they go single core the problem will still be trying to cram code made for multiple processor's running on a single core..even if they go Multiple-core they would still need the core's to perform just as good in performance than what ever the other system's are performing at. because less speed multi-core developement would not be any real benefit's over faster multiple core processor's because they are all still multiple core.

Nintendo is not greater than the market of the PC/xbox/playstation.

which most of the major 3rd party Publisher's that make game's for Windows OS are PC developer's more PC game's have been ported to the Xbox360 and the PS3

the 3rd party developer's would be leaving a ton of money on the table if what you would like to happen. Which like I said Nintendo will have no real advantage next generation other than coming out first and get a timed exclusive if anything due to many 3rd party Exclusive's are overwith this generation and most likely from now on. Nintendo would have to pony up some cash or support to get their exclusive.

the exact same boat that Sony  an  Microsoft will be in next generation.

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Around the Network
joeorc said:
jarrod said:
joeorc said:
jarrod said:
joeorc said:

where do you think a big expense cam from..Multi-core developement is not cheap because of just the hardware it's because of the game engine's have to be built from the ground up..and you mention 3rd party solution's adapt like crazy?

these multi-core game engine's are also for next generation.

they are not going to waste New development cost's sunk into the next hardware revision in any major way. there will be some investment but not nearly as much as it was this generation.

what do you think they did this generation...The replacement for the Wii is going to be late to the multi-core CPU/GPU party

not even how well the Wii has done is going to force them to just disreguard the other platform's..

that's the Main problem Multi-core has it's expensive in man power and Time.

Something Of which Nintendo does not Care much for.

the main problem is many of the chip make's have gone completely with Multi-core so Nintendo can go single core easy like this generation, but many developer's would have multi-core game engine's that they do not want to waste.

or Nintendo goes with Multi-core but developement is more expensive and they get the same treatment as the other system's.

this is not like previous generation's Multi-core development changed that landscape for good.

3rd party's are not going to leave out the PC, PS4, XBOX3 for just one platform not when the majority of CPU's are all being produced Multi-core.

Uh what?  The biggest expenses aren't at all programming, and they haven't been since the 8bit days.  The costs that actually ballooned this generation have to do with art and assets... it's not the fancy threaded engines and complex physics kits that are massively driving up R&D costs, it's the 1080p texture work and 100k poly models and the army of artists you have to hire/outsource to make them.  That's why technologies like Mega/Virtual-texturing and other procedurally generated techniques are so attractive to id, Epic and others in the tech business, because they'll massively slash art costs.

Nintendo's literally going to be at no disadvantage here.  In fact, they'll benefit engine wise from all the matured work and know how 360/PS3 demanded in the 3rd party development community.  Your argument here is literally backwards.

those artist's are not just only main expense, you have sound, production, and yes programming..and the entire team has to program that in. than quite a bit of testing all of which cost money. than cost is replication. packageing. etc. it's all a big effort.

no disadvantage yes they are developer's only had to work on a single core 800Mhz no doubt and that's quite simple vs' 3 or 8 core system's in getting code to run correctly. never mind the fact that the single core development cycle is pretty much to an end. thus if you are not developing on multiple core you have a learning curve.

so no disadvantage here for the Wii replacement maybe not for Nintendo, but for 3rd parties it may even though the Processor's have all been power PC this generation Nintendo may change which processor design. thus if they have no engine built the 3rd party would have to licence or built one. if they do what's the chances of the engine not working on the other system's?

that's the point next generation all the system's will be multi-core this was when Nintendo did not go, next generation Nintendo may have no choice unless they want more 3rd party support like Sony, Microsoft and the PC industry get's the PROBLEM is Most if not all 3rd PARTY developer's are mainly develop Hardcore game's for the PC this generation was a first where the PS3 and the XBOX360 can get game's that only the PC would have got.

in order to be in the same area for a robust system the Wii will have to be over a 1Ghz processor if not more with multiple core's because very many chip maker's are not making anything less.

thus the price would go up ..the next replacement for the Wii may be as much as $300.00

Planning and audio costs are virtually unchanged from last generation, especially for high production titles.  The main R&D increases this gen are in art and programming, and it's like an 9:1 split.  Art costs are insane this gen, and for most devs middleware solutions have blunted significant programming costs.

And most "hardcore" devs made PC games before this gen?  I'm sure that's news to Kojima, Mikami, Suda, Kamiya, Nagoshi, Itadaki, etc. lol.

And actually, an over 1GHz $299 Wii 2/HD/WiFi/whatever is more or less what I'm expecting.  I mean Wii was already 729 Mhz and $249, neither is actually that big an increase (I'd expect over 3GHz at the least really).  And rest assured, Nintendo's likely sticking with IBM (and PPC).  Unlike Sony or MDS, they seem to actually care about backwards compatibility. ;)

and I said most hardcore game developer's for the PC. i was not talking about mainly console developer's only, which frankly is also less and less because 3rd party need as much as they can get. Multi-core increased the cost over all this generation hardware and the learning curve for some developer's to learn it.

as you just stated over 1 GHz right?  what are we talking here 1.5 Ghz, single 2 multiple 1.5 Ghz single core or multiple?

if they go single core the problem will still be trying to cram code made for multiple processor's running on a single core..even if they go Multiple-core they would still need the core's to perform just as good in performance than what ever the other system's are performing at. because less speed multi-core developement would not be any real benefit's over faster multiple core processor's because they are all still multiple core.

Nintendo is not greater than the market of the PC/xbox/playstation.

which most of the major 3rd party Publisher's that make game's for Windows OS are PC developer's more PC game's have been ported to the Xbox360 and the PS3

the 3rd party developer's would be leaving a ton of money on the table if what you would like to happen. Which like I said Nintendo will have no real advantage next generation other than coming out first and get a timed exclusive if anything due to many 3rd party Exclusive's are overwith this generation and most likely from now on. Nintendo would have to pony up some cash or support to get their exclusive.

the exact same boat that Sony  an  Microsoft will be in next generation.

 

Developers leaving money on the table, or not, depends entirely on how the market actually plays out.  Again, I'm arguing Nintendo's strategy likely hinges on preempting the competition to drive an insurmountable userbase advantage.  Basically they'll do the PS2 strategy, which is exactly what they're doing with 3DS also.  Of course looking at how they handled Wii and even DS mainly, it's pretty clear developers don't have that great a track record with "leaving money on the table".  Thankfully, the 3DS commitments implies they can learn from their mistakes though. ;)

And I'd expect Nintendo next CPU to be multicore, speedy and efficient.  And from IBM.  Something similar to Xenos (but higher specced) would not surprise me in the least.



jarrod said:
joeorc said:
jarrod said:
joeorc said:
jarrod said:
joeorc said:

where do you think a big expense cam from..Multi-core developement is not cheap because of just the hardware it's because of the game engine's have to be built from the ground up..and you mention 3rd party solution's adapt like crazy?

these multi-core game engine's are also for next generation.

they are not going to waste New development cost's sunk into the next hardware revision in any major way. there will be some investment but not nearly as much as it was this generation.

what do you think they did this generation...The replacement for the Wii is going to be late to the multi-core CPU/GPU party

not even how well the Wii has done is going to force them to just disreguard the other platform's..

that's the Main problem Multi-core has it's expensive in man power and Time.

Something Of which Nintendo does not Care much for.

the main problem is many of the chip make's have gone completely with Multi-core so Nintendo can go single core easy like this generation, but many developer's would have multi-core game engine's that they do not want to waste.

or Nintendo goes with Multi-core but developement is more expensive and they get the same treatment as the other system's.

this is not like previous generation's Multi-core development changed that landscape for good.

3rd party's are not going to leave out the PC, PS4, XBOX3 for just one platform not when the majority of CPU's are all being produced Multi-core.

Uh what?  The biggest expenses aren't at all programming, and they haven't been since the 8bit days.  The costs that actually ballooned this generation have to do with art and assets... it's not the fancy threaded engines and complex physics kits that are massively driving up R&D costs, it's the 1080p texture work and 100k poly models and the army of artists you have to hire/outsource to make them.  That's why technologies like Mega/Virtual-texturing and other procedurally generated techniques are so attractive to id, Epic and others in the tech business, because they'll massively slash art costs.

Nintendo's literally going to be at no disadvantage here.  In fact, they'll benefit engine wise from all the matured work and know how 360/PS3 demanded in the 3rd party development community.  Your argument here is literally backwards.

those artist's are not just only main expense, you have sound, production, and yes programming..and the entire team has to program that in. than quite a bit of testing all of which cost money. than cost is replication. packageing. etc. it's all a big effort.

no disadvantage yes they are developer's only had to work on a single core 800Mhz no doubt and that's quite simple vs' 3 or 8 core system's in getting code to run correctly. never mind the fact that the single core development cycle is pretty much to an end. thus if you are not developing on multiple core you have a learning curve.

so no disadvantage here for the Wii replacement maybe not for Nintendo, but for 3rd parties it may even though the Processor's have all been power PC this generation Nintendo may change which processor design. thus if they have no engine built the 3rd party would have to licence or built one. if they do what's the chances of the engine not working on the other system's?

that's the point next generation all the system's will be multi-core this was when Nintendo did not go, next generation Nintendo may have no choice unless they want more 3rd party support like Sony, Microsoft and the PC industry get's the PROBLEM is Most if not all 3rd PARTY developer's are mainly develop Hardcore game's for the PC this generation was a first where the PS3 and the XBOX360 can get game's that only the PC would have got.

in order to be in the same area for a robust system the Wii will have to be over a 1Ghz processor if not more with multiple core's because very many chip maker's are not making anything less.

thus the price would go up ..the next replacement for the Wii may be as much as $300.00

Planning and audio costs are virtually unchanged from last generation, especially for high production titles.  The main R&D increases this gen are in art and programming, and it's like an 9:1 split.  Art costs are insane this gen, and for most devs middleware solutions have blunted significant programming costs.

And most "hardcore" devs made PC games before this gen?  I'm sure that's news to Kojima, Mikami, Suda, Kamiya, Nagoshi, Itadaki, etc. lol.

And actually, an over 1GHz $299 Wii 2/HD/WiFi/whatever is more or less what I'm expecting.  I mean Wii was already 729 Mhz and $249, neither is actually that big an increase (I'd expect over 3GHz at the least really).  And rest assured, Nintendo's likely sticking with IBM (and PPC).  Unlike Sony or MDS, they seem to actually care about backwards compatibility. ;)

and I said most hardcore game developer's for the PC. i was not talking about mainly console developer's only, which frankly is also less and less because 3rd party need as much as they can get. Multi-core increased the cost over all this generation hardware and the learning curve for some developer's to learn it.

as you just stated over 1 GHz right?  what are we talking here 1.5 Ghz, single 2 multiple 1.5 Ghz single core or multiple?

if they go single core the problem will still be trying to cram code made for multiple processor's running on a single core..even if they go Multiple-core they would still need the core's to perform just as good in performance than what ever the other system's are performing at. because less speed multi-core developement would not be any real benefit's over faster multiple core processor's because they are all still multiple core.

Nintendo is not greater than the market of the PC/xbox/playstation.

which most of the major 3rd party Publisher's that make game's for Windows OS are PC developer's more PC game's have been ported to the Xbox360 and the PS3

the 3rd party developer's would be leaving a ton of money on the table if what you would like to happen. Which like I said Nintendo will have no real advantage next generation other than coming out first and get a timed exclusive if anything due to many 3rd party Exclusive's are overwith this generation and most likely from now on. Nintendo would have to pony up some cash or support to get their exclusive.

the exact same boat that Sony  an  Microsoft will be in next generation.

 

Developers leaving money on the table, or not, depends entirely on how the market actually plays out.  Again, I'm arguing Nintendo's strategy likely hinges on preempting the competition to drive an insurmountable userbase advantage.  Basically they'll do the PS2 strategy, which is exactly what they're doing with 3DS also.  Of course looking at how they handled Wii and even DS mainly, it's pretty clear developers don't have that great a track record with "leaving money on the table".  Thankfully, the 3DS commitments implies they can learn from their mistakes though. ;)

And I'd expect Nintendo next CPU to be multicore, speedy and efficient.  And from IBM.  Something similar to Xenos (but higher specced) would not surprise me in the least.

even if they launch first many of the game's will go multi-platform unless you pay, or help with production or buy the developer. something Nintendo does not do that often, help with development maybe..but payout's most likey no.

even if they get the jump on both the xbox3 or playstation 4 they will get timed exclusives. pretty much what Microsoft and Sony got this generation. because no single platform is not worth the rest of the market without incentive.

which it's going to upto Nintendo to poney up the incentive what ever that may be.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Totally agree. The N3DS, was the show. And that's is.



MY ZELDA COLLECTION
joeorc said:

even if they launch first many of the game's will go multi-platform unless you pay, or help with production or buy the developer. something Nintendo does not do that often, help with development maybe..but payout's most likey no.

even if they get the jump on both the xbox3 or playstation 4 they will get timed exclusives. pretty much what Microsoft and Sony got this generation. because no single platform is not worth the rest of the market without incentive.

which it's going to upto Nintendo to poney up the incentive what ever that may be.

Again, it depends entirely on how the market plays out.  If Wii2 manages an early PS2-like huge lead, Nintendo will get a ton of defacto exclusive content (like PS2 did).  If the market simply fractures like PS3/360, we'll see 99% multiplatform R&D (again, like PS360).

3DS is basically taking a PS2-like approach, I expect Wii2 will as well.  It might work out, it might not, but I think that's very much the direction we're headed...



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jarrod said:
joeorc said:

even if they launch first many of the game's will go multi-platform unless you pay, or help with production or buy the developer. something Nintendo does not do that often, help with development maybe..but payout's most likey no.

even if they get the jump on both the xbox3 or playstation 4 they will get timed exclusives. pretty much what Microsoft and Sony got this generation. because no single platform is not worth the rest of the market without incentive.

which it's going to upto Nintendo to poney up the incentive what ever that may be.

Again, it depends entirely on how the market plays out.  If Wii2 manages an early PS2-like huge lead, Nintendo will get a ton of defacto exclusive content (like PS2 did).  If the market simply fractures like PS3/360, we'll see 99% multiplatform R&D (again, like PS360).

3DS is basically taking a PS2-like approach, I expect Wii2 will as well.  It might work out, it might not, but I think that's very much the direction we're headed...

based on current trend's that's most likely never going to happen because 3rd party exclusives are less and less likely unless you incentive them.

it's I think a pipe dream of old to get that complete 3rd party exclusivity anymore simply because it's not worth to just go one platfor unless their's an incentive.Even if you have the largest market share among the game console's the other's still have plenty of install base you would have to pass anyway. which still would take atleast a year or two. which by that time they may have released one new system of their own. consider this

say dintendo does release early..say 2011 there is still more Wii's on the market than that Wii replacement. now what will it offer over the current Wii?

if you notice there will not be much but higher graphic's and maybe a better online structure.

what price point will it be at $300.00 pretty much inline with both the xbox360 or the PS3 the Nintendo product's are not going to get a sizable jump in the technology front over these already on the market with out costing the consumer more money. Nintendo has alway's went the LOW end. if they went the High end it would be exciting to say the least. but i very much doubt it.

that still leaves the :

PC

the XBOX360

Playstation 3

an nintendo's very own Wii all still on the shelf.

the 3RD party developer's are not going to leave the previous generation system's out in the cold for only one system esp. since the other's have healty sale's.

but lets say for sake of argument

the Wii replacement will be worth more than the current Wii, but not as much as the xbox360 or the PS3 because the hardware is expensive ands even now in order to be near the tech. it's going to cost Nintendo some money .

the Wii is still selling fantastic.

the point is were almost at sturation point for total system's in the market Retail space is so small. so this say take's over the space of the PSP..right.

So now sony has little to no space for their PSP. that still does not take away from the fact that the Wii will still be taking up quite a bit of space of it's own.

no one is going to walk into Walmart and see only Nintendo system's esp. when both the xbox360 and the PS3 are haveing strong sale's. the Wii's replacement I would say is not going to be released next year. i doubt even in 2012 also.

the time of the single one system dominance is pretty much over. in game console's Microsoft is a very strong system slaes on the market and now sony has built the PS3's lossed market share back some of what it lost. it still lost quite a bit but that's a whole other topic.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

yea it will win the cell phone market. the 3ds will sell millions more



I'd say Wii 2 is prime for 2012

I'd also say it will be $300. Initially, the Wii could have sold at $300 and not lost a single sale. Momentum and demand was so high at the time that online retailers were selling it for an upwards of $350. As long as Nintendo provides content that they feel warrants the price, it is not a problem.



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

Dgc1808 said:

I don't get forum go-ers... SONY them selves said not to expect PSP2 anytime soon...


Like that means anything. If asked, they'll say that even a second before they're authorized to announce PSP2



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

LEAVE DREAMCAST ALONE!!!!

....she was awesome.. like a hot girl for 2 hours... and then she went away....



 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!)