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Forums - Gaming - Another Look At Piracy

Ail said:

sorry but a 50ms better ping isn't going to change a game of Starcraft at all...........

Heck, most RTS games transmit user interaction at 10 to 4 per second...

So now explain me how your 8ms ping make thing any better when the game doesn't interpret more than 4 to 10 user interactions per second anyway...

zYou obviosuly don't know shit about gaming then, because 50ms is the difference between making a successful amazing micro and getting your units killed. Also alright, 8-10 user interactoins a minute, that's still 10-13 ping, most definitely not 50, or worse, 100.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

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Final-Fan said:
vlad321 said:
Ail said:
So basically you are mesmerized by shit and can't help yourself but you have to play those shitty games ???
PS : so what excuse are you going to bring when Starcraft 2 becomes the most pirated game of 2010 ? I wonder...

Not really, I give them a try and they end up being shit. Not my fault their are shitty games.

P.S. Pretty good ones, lack of LAN and $60 to start off with. If those don't cause a ton of piracy then I'd be disappointed. Companies bend over for their customers, not the other way around.

Now here's where I have to call bullshit.  Earlier you gave examples of games that were more than worth the money:  "I spent $80 for D2 LoD, and I spent hundreds of hours on it, many many hundreds. $70 for Starcraft and Warcraft 2 and 3 and I spent hundreds of hours out of them. UT2004 set me back only $50.Don't even get me started on the value of Civ 4.  FInally, while I have spent around $750 on WoW, I have 250 days of /played. That's 6,000 hours.

"Why should I pay $60 for MW2 which is a re-tread of a game, and is utter shit when it comes to features? Same goes for jsut about any shooter that has come out since 2005, except for Metro 2033 which had some amazing new features, and Portal."

But now I'm supposed to believe that SC2 isn't going to measure up?  If you spend hundreds and hundreds of hours on a game (a precedent set by SC1), then you are the biggest fucking crybaby liar in the world if you are seriously going to try to convince me that you can't put up $60 for it.  LAN or no LAN, playtime tells the tale. 

And in any case, where do you get off being "disappointed" by low piracy levels EVER? 

I will admit, D2 LoD, I spent playing on Bnet. However SC I spent far far longer playing on LAN than I did on Bnet, and Warcraft 3 was 50/50 solely because I wasn't geographically close to the people I played with . Remove LAN from SC2, and those hundreds of hours can be cut drastically, making it not worth it. That is even more true considering I now have a laptop to carry around for SC2 and not a desktop, making LAN even more viable than before.

I'd be disappointed because that means consumers decided to get a shaft up their ass instead of sticking a shaft up a developer's ass to put them in their place.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Slimebeast said:
I pirate, but I don't give dishonest arguments for it. Like the "Try first" argument, it's just a lie or a self-deception to justify your dirty acts. It simply is very awkward to download and install a game and then later pay $30 or $40 for it. Why would anyone do that? Human psychology don't work like that. I know some would do it from time to time, if you by chance stumbled upon a cheap copy or a sale of a game you really love, but it's not something you'd do on a regular basis.

I pirate because I can. It saves money and has no legal or other negative consequences. That's the true reason for everyone who pirate.

So do we really want game sales to depend on the good will of overly-critical, spoiled people like Vlad?




I admit, the games of the early 2000's have made me spoiled. Can't help it. When you go from consistently having pretty awesome games to consistently being bomabrded by crap there's no way around being overly-critical.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

vlad321 said:
Ail said:
 

sorry but a 50ms better ping isn't going to change a game of Starcraft at all...........

Heck, most RTS games transmit user interaction at 10 to 4 per second...

So now explain me how your 8ms ping make thing any better when the game doesn't interpret more than 4 to 10 user interactions per second anyway...

zYou obviosuly don't know shit about gaming then, because 50ms is the difference between making a successful amazing micro and getting your units killed. Also alright, 8-10 user interactoins a minute, that's still 10-13 ping, most definitely not 50, or worse, 100.

But you don't seem to know how RTS games work Vlad. 50ms doesn't make any difference at all. You don't need that ultra fast feedback for every move in RTS's like you need in shooters for the next move (shot) to be accurate. Only a rookie would wait for the feedback from every click in an RTS. A good player always has the next few clicks/commands already decided at every given moment and he executes them totally independent of the reaction/lag on the screen.



Slimebeast said:
vlad321 said:
Ail said:
 

sorry but a 50ms better ping isn't going to change a game of Starcraft at all...........

Heck, most RTS games transmit user interaction at 10 to 4 per second...

So now explain me how your 8ms ping make thing any better when the game doesn't interpret more than 4 to 10 user interactions per second anyway...

zYou obviosuly don't know shit about gaming then, because 50ms is the difference between making a successful amazing micro and getting your units killed. Also alright, 8-10 user interactoins a minute, that's still 10-13 ping, most definitely not 50, or worse, 100.

But you don't seem to know how RTS games work Vlad. 50ms doesn't make any difference at all. You don't need that ultra fast feedback for every move in RTS's like you need in shooters for the next move (shot) to be accurate. Only a rookie would wait for the feedback from every click in an RTS. A good player always has the next few clicks/commands already decided at every given moment and he executes them totally independent of the reaction/lag on the screen.

You also obviously have never seen a starcraft game being played, when it comes to things done quickly and feedback from it there is plentyof need for it:

 

If you are playing just macro the ping doesn't matter much at all until you hit the 100s, but if you want to win in micro you need just as good ping as you do in UT.

 



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Around the Network
vlad321 said:
Slimebeast said:
vlad321 said:
Ail said:
 

sorry but a 50ms better ping isn't going to change a game of Starcraft at all...........

Heck, most RTS games transmit user interaction at 10 to 4 per second...

So now explain me how your 8ms ping make thing any better when the game doesn't interpret more than 4 to 10 user interactions per second anyway...

zYou obviosuly don't know shit about gaming then, because 50ms is the difference between making a successful amazing micro and getting your units killed. Also alright, 8-10 user interactoins a minute, that's still 10-13 ping, most definitely not 50, or worse, 100.

But you don't seem to know how RTS games work Vlad. 50ms doesn't make any difference at all. You don't need that ultra fast feedback for every move in RTS's like you need in shooters for the next move (shot) to be accurate. Only a rookie would wait for the feedback from every click in an RTS. A good player always has the next few clicks/commands already decided at every given moment and he executes them totally independent of the reaction/lag on the screen.

You also obviously have never seen a starcraft game being played, when it comes to things done quickly and feedback from it there is plentyof need for it:

 

If you are playing just macro the ping doesn't matter much at all until you hit the 100s, but if you want to win in micro you need just as good ping as you do in UT.

 

Not true. You can't give orders as fast in an RTS like you can move the mouse in a shooter, therefore sub-50ms pings don't matter.



vlad321 said:
Ail said:
 

sorry but a 50ms better ping isn't going to change a game of Starcraft at all...........

Heck, most RTS games transmit user interaction at 10 to 4 per second...

So now explain me how your 8ms ping make thing any better when the game doesn't interpret more than 4 to 10 user interactions per second anyway...

zYou obviosuly don't know shit about gaming then, because 50ms is the difference between making a successful amazing micro and getting your units killed. Also alright, 8-10 user interactoins a minute, that's still 10-13 ping, most definitely not 50, or worse, 100.

k I'm going to use simpler words because obviously you didn't understand the last explaination...

 

The most often any RTS game checks for users interactions is 10 times per second, most actually check for it only 4 times per second..

What this means is when you do your interaction, depending on the game, between 100 or 250 ms will pass before the game decides to process it... ( because the game is busy managing all your units and shits in btw, the mechanics of a RTS are different from those of a FPS).

 

So whether your command takes 8 ms to reach the server or whether it takes 100 ms, is exactly the same in term of gameplay, there is no difference at all..........

 

PS : The best korean SC players micro at the rate of around 210-240 interactions/minute, that's about 1 interaction every 270 ms in average..........

 

 



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Ail said:

PS : The best korean SC players micro at the rate of around 210-240 interactions/minute, that's about 1 interaction every 270 ms in average..........

Only Vlad isn't Korean. You obviously don't know the speed of Romanians.



Marked.



Akvod said:

You can't "take" a digital copy of a game.

Yes you can. IP is the right to exclusively produce or reproduce a software, music, etc. You have no right, the people who put it up online have no right. Lenders have a right, because they got permission from the creators. Second hand sales have a right, because while they have no right to reproduce the product, they can do as they please with their copy.

Don't forget these professionals get payed salary and maybe have stock options or bonuses based on how well a game sells.

So?

I would argue in capitalist societies that companies do have an obligation to produce attractive products at reasonable prices.

No in a capitalist society, you have choices. If there is a crappy product, that means that you choose the better product, and the crappy company fails. It's fucking ironic that people are saying "Man, this game fucking blows. Therefore, I shall take it". If the game blows, then don't fucking pirate it. It blows right?

 

Equally, any economy relies the movement of goods, the use of services, and the transfer of money: people are obligated to buy products.

There are other things an economy relies on, but the main thing is the establishment of property rights. Civil government is needed to enforce this.

Overpricing and lack of value hinder a healthy relationship between producer and consumer. If you give a person a reason to want something they cannot obtain conveniently, they'll think of another way of getting that something.

There is no such thing as "overpricing". There is only unprofitble, and price fixing/oligopolies/monopolies. If the price is above the equilibrium level, it will naturally fall. If it is below, it will rise. If the price is too high, then don't buy it. This is my point in my last point. This sense of entitlement. I think that diamonds are overpriced. For me personally at least. I have no interest in those fucking glittery rocks. But my mom doesn't. She loves that shit, and she's willing to pay for it. I'm at the very bottom of the Marginal Benefit (I get very little utitlity from the diamond), and my mother is at the center or above of that curve. The level of a price and the true value of the product varies from each person. There can be no overpricing.

I'll give you a good example: before Netflix and popular streaming services I used to watch all of my television and movies from torrented downloads. Torrents were simply the most convenient way possible to get what I wanted when I wanted it.

You were on the bottom half of the marginal benefit curve. Yet, you got to enjoy the fruits of the movie makers without having to pay for it, because you got it for free.

Netflix and other streaming services have actually made it immensely more convenient and they are either free (with reasonable ads) or reasonably priced.

There was a theoretical "price" of torrenting. That price can be measured by the opportunity cost of torrenting (risk of getting caught, hard drive space, the time it takes to download a movie, the bad quality, etc).

The price of the Netflix was cheaper, you went for that one.

 

 

... so your point is that you simply ignore property rights for your own benefit.

The laws and standards regarding intellectual and physical property are very different for a reason. When you download a game without paying for it, you haven't taken anything away, you've just made a copy. The copyright holder still has everything he had before the download took place. If you go into a store and take a game or CD  or DVD without paying for it, then yeah, you've taken something away; however, all you've taken is a round, plastic disc. The copyright holder still has all of the rights to distribute, reproduce, etc.

 

 

 



 

Consoles owned: Saturn, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, PSP, DS, PS3