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Forums - PC Discussion - Consolitis... Ugh

huaxiong90 said:
rajendra82 said:
huaxiong90 said:

Played many shooters on PC and consoles. My top 10 is like this:

10. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
9. Killzone
8. Halo: Combat Evolved
7. Unreal Tournament 2004
6. Quake 3
5. Medal of Honor (PS1)
4. Goldeneye
3. Counter Strike
2. Half-Life series
1. Doom (1&2)/Wolfenstein (Zdaemon and Skulltag shit all over many other online FPS games)

That is my opinion.

That seems unfair.  Doom 1, 2, and Wolfenstein together when they were separate games, the whole Half Life series gets to add up their score too, but the other games only get counted for single releases and don't get to add up the sequels or the previous games in the series.

I don't add them up to put them above other games. They all had one thing that I valued equally, so I'm going to put together. Both HL games had amazing SP campaigns, while Wolfenstein and Doom are the foundations of FPS games.

Then you should have said:

-. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
-. Killzone
-. Halo: Combat Evolved
10. Unreal Tournament 2004
9. Quake 3
8. Medal of Honor (PS1)
7. Goldeneye
6. Counter Strike
5, and 4. Half-Life series (Tied)
3, 2, and 1. Doom (1&2)/Wolfenstein (Tied)



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max power said:
Barozi said:
 

One level was flawed, so I docked 1 point off. Every game is a bit repetitive here and there, but the gameplay easily makes up for that. As long as it's fun, it's not repetitive.

Level design was good, in many parts even awesome.

"too much repetition IN THE LATER LEVELS" 

try to use the full quote next time. The Library is mainly responsible for that.

"when evaluated against the standards of the current PC shooter catalog, Halo seems to fall short in just a few key areas: repetitive levels, steep performance requirements and a lingering console balance."

And here you misinterpreted what the author said.

MoH AA, No One Lives Forever 2, Jedi Knight 2, Battlefield 1942, UT 2003, Return to Castle Wolfenstein & Serious Sam 2nd Encounter came out in the meantime between the Xbox and the PC version of Halo btw.

I'm sure those title helped raising the bar for PC shooters, thus making Halo on the PC look/feel worse than it was in 2001.

One level?  C'mon... the entire second half of the game could have been replicated with a half hour level and just playing it over and over again a dozen times. 

Go play Half Life 2.  One minute you're fighting through the sewers, then you're riding an airboat.  Then you're killing zombies with the gravity gun, then you're cruising along the coast. No two areas are the same, no two rooms identical.

Then go play Halo.  You fight through a room full of enemies, cross a bridge.  Then fight through an identical room populated with the same enemies, followed by an identical bridge with the same enemies.  And it doesn't just repeat the one time.  I'm sorry, but there's no excuse for this. 

 

Anyway, we're arguing in circles at this point.  I doubt there's anything you can say is going to make me realize "Oh, well, _____ makes it perfectly acceptable to carbon-copy room after room after room in a single player campaign."

While HL2 is my favourite FPS, I have to say the Water Hazard chapter is almost as bad as Halo's The Library.

But HL2 takes about 14 hours to complete so it doesn't matter that much.



rajendra82 said:
huaxiong90 said:
rajendra82 said:
huaxiong90 said:

Played many shooters on PC and consoles. My top 10 is like this:

10. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
9. Killzone
8. Halo: Combat Evolved
7. Unreal Tournament 2004
6. Quake 3
5. Medal of Honor (PS1)
4. Goldeneye
3. Counter Strike
2. Half-Life series
1. Doom (1&2)/Wolfenstein (Zdaemon and Skulltag shit all over many other online FPS games)

That is my opinion.

That seems unfair.  Doom 1, 2, and Wolfenstein together when they were separate games, the whole Half Life series gets to add up their score too, but the other games only get counted for single releases and don't get to add up the sequels or the previous games in the series.

I don't add them up to put them above other games. They all had one thing that I valued equally, so I'm going to put together. Both HL games had amazing SP campaigns, while Wolfenstein and Doom are the foundations of FPS games.

Then you should have said:

-. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
-. Killzone
-. Halo: Combat Evolved
10. Unreal Tournament 2004
9. Quake 3
8. Medal of Honor (PS1)
7. Goldeneye
6. Counter Strike
5, and 4. Half-Life series (Tied)
3, 2, and 1. Doom (1&2)/Wolfenstein (Tied)

There is no qualities which I appreciated in each title that seperated them. Therefore, I put them together.



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

Acevil said:
PC gamers complain way too much, I am so glad I never fully became a PC gamer.

I'm glad you didn't as well.



huaxiong90 said:
rajendra82 said:
huaxiong90 said:
rajendra82 said:
huaxiong90 said:

Played many shooters on PC and consoles. My top 10 is like this:

10. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
9. Killzone
8. Halo: Combat Evolved
7. Unreal Tournament 2004
6. Quake 3
5. Medal of Honor (PS1)
4. Goldeneye
3. Counter Strike
2. Half-Life series
1. Doom (1&2)/Wolfenstein (Zdaemon and Skulltag shit all over many other online FPS games)

That is my opinion.

That seems unfair.  Doom 1, 2, and Wolfenstein together when they were separate games, the whole Half Life series gets to add up their score too, but the other games only get counted for single releases and don't get to add up the sequels or the previous games in the series.

I don't add them up to put them above other games. They all had one thing that I valued equally, so I'm going to put together. Both HL games had amazing SP campaigns, while Wolfenstein and Doom are the foundations of FPS games.

Then you should have said:

-. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
-. Killzone
-. Halo: Combat Evolved
10. Unreal Tournament 2004
9. Quake 3
8. Medal of Honor (PS1)
7. Goldeneye
6. Counter Strike
5, and 4. Half-Life series (Tied)
3, 2, and 1. Doom (1&2)/Wolfenstein (Tied)

There is no qualities which I appreciated in each title that seperated them. Therefore, I put them together.

But we are talking about the top 10 games.  You may like Doom 1, 2, and Wolfenstein the best, and equally, but that's three games.  Similarly the Half Life series games you like the best next are two games.  So that's the top 5 games right there.  You are only allowed 5 more.  If you say that Doom 1, 2 and Wolfenstein are only the best games when considered together as the foundation of the FPS genre, but are not each the best game individually, then they've got to vacate that top spot for the best single released game.  That's what I am saying.  You can't put those three separate games together as No. 1, but then say Halo: CE is 8, but Halo 2 and 3 can't be counted together with it for some reason.



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rajendra82 said:
huaxiong90 said:
rajendra82 said:
huaxiong90 said:
rajendra82 said:
huaxiong90 said:

Played many shooters on PC and consoles. My top 10 is like this:

10. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
9. Killzone
8. Halo: Combat Evolved
7. Unreal Tournament 2004
6. Quake 3
5. Medal of Honor (PS1)
4. Goldeneye
3. Counter Strike
2. Half-Life series
1. Doom (1&2)/Wolfenstein (Zdaemon and Skulltag shit all over many other online FPS games)

That is my opinion.

That seems unfair.  Doom 1, 2, and Wolfenstein together when they were separate games, the whole Half Life series gets to add up their score too, but the other games only get counted for single releases and don't get to add up the sequels or the previous games in the series.

I don't add them up to put them above other games. They all had one thing that I valued equally, so I'm going to put together. Both HL games had amazing SP campaigns, while Wolfenstein and Doom are the foundations of FPS games.

Then you should have said:

-. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
-. Killzone
-. Halo: Combat Evolved
10. Unreal Tournament 2004
9. Quake 3
8. Medal of Honor (PS1)
7. Goldeneye
6. Counter Strike
5, and 4. Half-Life series (Tied)
3, 2, and 1. Doom (1&2)/Wolfenstein (Tied)

There is no qualities which I appreciated in each title that seperated them. Therefore, I put them together.

But we are talking about the top 10 games.  You may like Doom 1, 2, and Wolfenstein the best, and equally, but that's three games.  Similarly the Half Life series games you like the best next are two games.  So that's the top 5 games right there.  You are only allowed 5 more.  If you say that Doom 1, 2 and Wolfenstein are only the best games when considered together as the foundation of the FPS genre, but are not each the best game individually, then they've got to vacate that top spot for the best single released game.  That's what I am saying.  You can't put those three separate games together as No. 1, but then say Halo: CE is 8, but Halo 2 and 3 can't be counted together with it for some reason.

Ok then, just for you.

 

Top 2 spots: Half-Life 2, then Doom 2.



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

Squilliam said:

mirgro said:
I agree, the consoles ruined the shooter genre in many many ways. I made a huge list in another thread, so I will repost what I said:

"-DLC

PC invented that.

-Regenerating health

Not a problem I want to go back to.

-Matchmaking

Blame PC again.

-Limited guns being able to be carried

PC started it. I could only carry 2 rifles + pistol in Wolf3D.

-Following from the previous, shitty gun concepts and not much variation

PC invented the Doom clone

-Slow ass games, way slow, I grow a 5 o'clock shadow any time I try to turn 180 degress in Halo 3, GoW, CoD, etc.

Wolf3D started the slow ass FPS routine.

-Repetative gameplay, seriously look at how varied HL2 is then look at Gears of War

This statement is as cherry as this font.

-Decline of skill based games, and an astounding rise of luck based games. At least back in 2000 CS players knew heir places behind Quake/UT players, now people are actually arguing with me how Halo 3, CoD4, MW2, etc. take more skill than Quake and UT.

Skill != reflexes.

-Leveling systems in multiplayer. I realize BF2 did i first and I hated it for it, but now it's just getting rediculous.

You said it, blame PC for it.

-Zero modding tools and SDKs. Epic releases the entire UE engine for everyone who buys the game. You know the one that is used in lke 20% of all current games? Yeah that one. You get literally the whole thing and you can make amazing games without a hitch as long as youdon't charge for it.

That falls under the same category as acceptable platform tradeoff.

-Shitty models. Look at the variety of models HL, TF, Quake, UT, etc. had, and now look at the variety of models, which conosist of Marine 1, and at best Soldier 1. Then you can add little bells and whistles to "customize" them which make no fucking difference in the middle of the action.

Thats an individual developer thing. How many Barneys were there in HL1 again?

I feel that's a nice list, I am sure I have more greviances but I just can't come up with them. I will end this with a very nice thing that I do like about console shooters:

-Local multiplayer, it's fucking awesome, and while it's nowhere near as awesome and badass as a LAN party, it's very fast and it doesn't have to be premedited. A shooter on a console is absolutely worthless without local multiplayer."

Lan parties are lame.
There.

Blame PC, first.

 

-Never been asked a dime for content up until some time after 2006, after the consoles hit.

-Never has matchmaking been the only way to play online

- Only games with limited guns were ones that actually required strategy, a la Delta Force, and trust me, none of the shooters out right now have even a fraction of the tactics of those games. Wolf3D did it because of a limitation, just as consoles are doing it because of a limitation, thjough a different kind.

-Wolf3D was the very first of FPS games, literally the first. It was slow, again due to limitation, the very next game, DOOM is already faster than all console shooters released. Very very sad that consoles can't even handle a game type from early '90s.

-Repetative gameplay is not cherrypicking, any repetative shooters on the PC never got over low 80s, usually in the 70s at best. Meanwhile you consistently have games with gameplay that is copy pasted, Halo even copied the level designs, get extremely high scores.

-SKill = reflexes + tactics. Currently there is no games out there that requires the reflexes of UT, or the tactics of CSS. They just take a lot less skill, more about that later.

-After BF2 how many leveling systems did you see on the PC? 0. I rest my case.

-There is no way you can spin lack of mods and SDK into  a positive thing, especially added to my first point. The video gaming industry is the only one that removes features and asks more money for them as time progresses.

-Saying HL1 has the same amount of models as Halo is kind of pathetic, considering HL1 came out 3 years before Halo, and it still managed to have more models for online play than Halo has ever had, even right now. The last time there was only one model was probably DOOM2. THis is just fail.

 

 

This is why games in general, not just shooters, have started to suck terribly since 2006. This is a quote from DICE, the guys behind Battlefield:

"Gordon Van Dyke: It's not a shift in focus, but more like somewhere we wanted to explore. I think what happened was, consoles have reached a level where we could introduce people to something we had been giving to PC players for quite a while. It was an exciting opportunity. So we really focused on that. There are more expectations of us, for the PC game. It almost kind of makes you weary, you get nervous, you put these unrealistic expectations on yourself as a developer. You forget that the whole premise is to get something out there that's really fun. We realized that BC2 was going to provide that. We have a lot to live up to on the PC, and I think the original Bad Company's focus was to kind of...reintroduce Battlefield to a new audience on the console. BC2 is like, maybe in retrospect, we could have given BC1 to the PC but we didn't. We didn't feel like it was worth it to go back and try and do that, but we thought, "Well, let's give them BC2." It lived up to expectations, I think, what PC players were expecting. Especially for a new engine."

 

To sum it up, if console gamers were to wisen up, and actually play old FPS games, they'd probably be bitching as much as PC gamers are right now. Except they aren't so they just don't know what they should be asking of developers, thus giving developers the excuse to release shit games.



The good thing about consolitis is that after you get them removed, you get to eat as much ice cream as you want.



I feel your pain.
I've been agueing the point that FPS on consoles don't compare to PC shooters.
But nobody ever seems to listen.
I hate shooters on consoles and for the life of me can never get to grips with the controls.
And then there are some who argue Dual Analogue is the best controller for shooters...



There is no Knowledge that is not Power

mirgro said:
Squilliam said:

 

 sum it up, if console gamers were to wisen up, and actually play old FPS games, they'd probably be bitching as much as PC gamers are right now. Except they aren't so they just don't know what they should be asking of developers, thus giving developers the excuse to release shit games.

-Never been asked a dime for content up until some time after 2006, after the consoles hit.

Never seen an expansion pack?

-Never has matchmaking been the only way to play online

It isn't. You can also play with your friends.

- Only games with limited guns were ones that actually required strategy, a la Delta Force, and trust me, none of the shooters out right now have even a fraction of the tactics of those games. Wolf3D did it because of a limitation, just as consoles are doing it because of a limitation, thjough a different kind.

I don't really see a problem with it. I don't really remember ever thinking man I wish I could hold 3 rifles. You know, you can only use one at a time right? I also don't go around complaining about the people who play with crosshairs in PC FPS games and yet crosshairs are such an obvious thing that you don't need with a mouse... maybe live and let live?

-Wolf3D was the very first of FPS games, literally the first. It was slow, again due to limitation, the very next game, DOOM is already faster than all console shooters released. Very very sad that consoles can't even handle a game type from early '90s.

Thats not true, Doom has been released on the Xbox 360.

-Repetative gameplay is not cherrypicking, any repetative shooters on the PC never got over low 80s, usually in the 70s at best. Meanwhile you consistently have games with gameplay that is copy pasted, Halo even copied the level designs, get extremely high scores.

All FPS games are repetitive. You have a gun and you shoot things over and over again.

-SKill = reflexes + tactics. Currently there is no games out there that requires the reflexes of UT, or the tactics of CSS. They just take a lot less skill, more about that later.

In most likelihood the most skilled computer game players are probably Starcraft players given the level of competition and the number of players. 

-After BF2 how many leveling systems did you see on the PC? 0. I rest my case.

There was Modern Warfare... Also I remember leveling up in RPG games.

-There is no way you can spin lack of mods and SDK into  a positive thing, especially added to my first point. The video gaming industry is the only one that removes features and asks more money for them as time progresses.

Its a feature of the platform. Closed box = simplicity. Its the same reason why people watch cable instead of going on Youtube and selecting their own shows. People like the consistancy and simplicity of being fed content rather than going out to find it themselves.

-Saying HL1 has the same amount of models as Halo is kind of pathetic, considering HL1 came out 3 years before Halo, and it still managed to have more models for online play than Halo has ever had, even right now. The last time there was only one model was probably DOOM2. THis is just fail.

I've never seen reviewers split model count into a seperate category. I don't think its worth mentioning for most people, yeah.

This is why games in general, not just shooters, have started to suck terribly since 2006. This is a quote from DICE, the guys behind Battlefield:

"Gordon Van Dyke: It's not a shift in focus, but more like somewhere we wanted to explore. I think what happened was, consoles have reached a level where we could introduce people to something we had been giving to PC players for quite a while. It was an exciting opportunity. So we really focused on that. There are more expectations of us, for the PC game. It almost kind of makes you weary, you get nervous, you put these unrealistic expectations on yourself as a developer. You forget that the whole premise is to get something out there that's really fun. We realized that BC2 was going to provide that. We have a lot to live up to on the PC, and I think the original Bad Company's focus was to kind of...reintroduce Battlefield to a new audience on the console. BC2 is like, maybe in retrospect, we could have given BC1 to the PC but we didn't. We didn't feel like it was worth it to go back and try and do that, but we thought, "Well, let's give them BC2." It lived up to expectations, I think, what PC players were expecting. Especially for a new engine."

Games in general suck? Thats ok. For every one hardened PC gamer who falls about 3 ignorant console gamers take his place. If you quit gaming, there will be like 3 console gamers who'll take your place.

 

To sum it up, if console gamers were to wisen up, and actually play old FPS games, they'd probably be bitching as much as PC gamers are right now. Except they aren't so they just don't know what they should be asking of developers, thus giving developers the excuse to release shit games.

I suspect they just play the damn games. If its fun = good, if its not = sucks. Pretty awesome and simple way to describe video games. Also many of the so called console gamers were once PC gamers so its not like they didn't sample the fruit on the other side of the fence.

 

 

 

 

 



Tease.