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Forums - Sales Discussion - Heavenly Sword sold about 1.5m but devs didn't break even

letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
So guys... who know everything. Where did the money go?

Ninja Theory was a team of 23 in '04. They ended up with a 6 hour game. The cost is probablly close to double Uncharted's budget... so... your telling me voicing only cost a couple grand... the length is well below average... everything else is decent... yet it has a massive budget. I guess managent is putting their coke and prostitutes under the development cost eh?

I'm sorry. I stand by the voicing for this game has taken up more than its fair share of the budget. Its the only thing different than other games yet has a higher cost.

Viper and Twesterm actually work in the games Industry.  You know this right?  The Lol was just in direct response to your "The developers probably made a couple million each." if you didn't know.

You can maintain your position, but at this point... unless the actual people from Ninja Theory back you up.  Your on shakey ground.


Shaky ground? I'm sorry... 30 - 40 million is way too much for even 23 people doing coke for 3 years, They had to spend it on something else

Of which... you assume it's voice acting... which Viper stated was silly.  When people in the industry shut down your arguement... it's time to shut down your arguement.  You don't do yourself any service otherwise.

At this rate, I imagine if the Ninja Theory guys themselves say they didn't pay him millions you would assume they are lieing simply because they are embarressed.

 

Also, the game development started in 2002.


Ninja Theories original name was "Just Add Monsters".



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Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
So guys... who know everything. Where did the money go?

Ninja Theory was a team of 23 in '04. They ended up with a 6 hour game. The cost is probablly close to double Uncharted's budget... so... your telling me voicing only cost a couple grand... the length is well below average... everything else is decent... yet it has a massive budget. I guess managent is putting their coke and prostitutes under the development cost eh?

I'm sorry. I stand by the voicing for this game has taken up more than its fair share of the budget. Its the only thing different than other games yet has a higher cost.

Viper and Twesterm actually work in the games Industry.  You know this right?  The Lol was just in direct response to your "The developers probably made a couple million each." if you didn't know.

You can maintain your position, but at this point... unless the actual people from Ninja Theory back you up.  Your on shakey ground.


Shaky ground? I'm sorry... 30 - 40 million is way too much for even 23 people doing coke for 3 years, They had to spend it on something else

Of which... you assume it's voice acting... which Viper stated was silly.  When people in the industry shut down your arguement... it's time to shut down your arguement.  You don't do yourself any service otherwise.

At this rate, I imagine if the Ninja Theory guys themselves say they didn't pay him millions you would assume they are lieing simply because they are embarressed.

 

Also, the game development started in 2002.


Ninja Theories original name was "Just Add Monsters".

02 - 04 = 3 million bucks. IF that. High budget Wii games are said to have a budget of 7 million. Wii is said to have a higher budget than ps2/xbox. High budget Ps2 games are said to be 5 million. So even if it started in '02 there is still 35 million somewhere else



Where in the world are you getting a $35-40 million budget from?

And I already broke down for you how much Serkis was likely paid based on average pay for his production positions and high end pay for voice work.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
So guys... who know everything. Where did the money go?

Ninja Theory was a team of 23 in '04. They ended up with a 6 hour game. The cost is probablly close to double Uncharted's budget... so... your telling me voicing only cost a couple grand... the length is well below average... everything else is decent... yet it has a massive budget. I guess managent is putting their coke and prostitutes under the development cost eh?

I'm sorry. I stand by the voicing for this game has taken up more than its fair share of the budget. Its the only thing different than other games yet has a higher cost.

Viper and Twesterm actually work in the games Industry.  You know this right?  The Lol was just in direct response to your "The developers probably made a couple million each." if you didn't know.

You can maintain your position, but at this point... unless the actual people from Ninja Theory back you up.  Your on shakey ground.


Shaky ground? I'm sorry... 30 - 40 million is way too much for even 23 people doing coke for 3 years, They had to spend it on something else

Of which... you assume it's voice acting... which Viper stated was silly.  When people in the industry shut down your arguement... it's time to shut down your arguement.  You don't do yourself any service otherwise.

At this rate, I imagine if the Ninja Theory guys themselves say they didn't pay him millions you would assume they are lieing simply because they are embarressed.

 

Also, the game development started in 2002.


Ninja Theories original name was "Just Add Monsters".

02 - 04 = 3 million bucks. IF that. High budget Wii games are said to have a budget of 7 million. Wii is said to have a higher budget than ps2/xbox. High budget Ps2 games are said to be 5 million. So even if it started in '02 there is still 35 million somewhere else

3 Million bucks.  Hey that's about how much you said Andy got... before you knew there was an Xbox version.  Also a PC version... also an Xbox 360 version.

They made 3 versions of the game before settling on PS3 exclusivity.  You don't think that's a bit costly?  

As for the 23 people... take a look at HS's credits.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/ps3/heavenly-sword/credits

I see a few more then 23.  Not to mention your assuming 30-40 million when it could just as eaisly be... Sony screwed them in their deal.

Regardless, your using blind speculation against what actual experts have said. 

 

 

 



Viper1 said:
Where in the world are you getting a $35-40 million budget from?

And I already broke down for you how much Serkis was likely paid based on average pay for his production positions and high end pay for voice work.


1.5 million copies sold.

.5 in NA x 25 (How much they get per game if their contract aint shitty) = 12.5

HS turned budget in Aug. '08 so from Sept - Aug HS sold 700k

.68 x 25 = 17

HS ended with .85

.17 x 12 = 2

.06 x 25 = 1.5

2 + 1.5 + 17 + 12.5 = 33

And 90k shy from 1.5 so around 35 million.



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Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
So guys... who know everything. Where did the money go?

Ninja Theory was a team of 23 in '04. They ended up with a 6 hour game. The cost is probablly close to double Uncharted's budget... so... your telling me voicing only cost a couple grand... the length is well below average... everything else is decent... yet it has a massive budget. I guess managent is putting their coke and prostitutes under the development cost eh?

I'm sorry. I stand by the voicing for this game has taken up more than its fair share of the budget. Its the only thing different than other games yet has a higher cost.

Viper and Twesterm actually work in the games Industry.  You know this right?  The Lol was just in direct response to your "The developers probably made a couple million each." if you didn't know.

You can maintain your position, but at this point... unless the actual people from Ninja Theory back you up.  Your on shakey ground.


Shaky ground? I'm sorry... 30 - 40 million is way too much for even 23 people doing coke for 3 years, They had to spend it on something else

Of which... you assume it's voice acting... which Viper stated was silly.  When people in the industry shut down your arguement... it's time to shut down your arguement.  You don't do yourself any service otherwise.

At this rate, I imagine if the Ninja Theory guys themselves say they didn't pay him millions you would assume they are lieing simply because they are embarressed.

 

Also, the game development started in 2002.


Ninja Theories original name was "Just Add Monsters".

02 - 04 = 3 million bucks. IF that. High budget Wii games are said to have a budget of 7 million. Wii is said to have a higher budget than ps2/xbox. High budget Ps2 games are said to be 5 million. So even if it started in '02 there is still 35 million somewhere else

3 Million bucks.  Hey that's about how much you said Andy got... before you knew there was an Xbox version.  Also a PC version... also an Xbox 360 version.

They made 3 versions of the game before settling on PS3 exclusivity.  You don't think that's a bit costly?  

As for the 23 people... take a look at HS's credits.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/ps3/heavenly-sword/credits

I see a few more then 23.  Not to mention your assuming 30-40 million when it could just as eaisly be... Sony screwed them in their deal.

Regardless, your using blind speculation against what actual experts have said. 

If they aren't doing any actual work on the game then no it isn't costly (especially since they probablly where developing it with a generic code that could be ported easily between the 3 since we hear about how similiar xbox is to a PC) and I said 23 in '04.



I loved this game. People always bash it for being 5-6 hours long but i don't see the same people bashing GoWIII which is almost just as short.

My save file in God Of War 3 says less than 7 hours, and i took my sweet time in a couple of places.



 

letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
So guys... who know everything. Where did the money go?

Ninja Theory was a team of 23 in '04. They ended up with a 6 hour game. The cost is probablly close to double Uncharted's budget... so... your telling me voicing only cost a couple grand... the length is well below average... everything else is decent... yet it has a massive budget. I guess managent is putting their coke and prostitutes under the development cost eh?

I'm sorry. I stand by the voicing for this game has taken up more than its fair share of the budget. Its the only thing different than other games yet has a higher cost.

Viper and Twesterm actually work in the games Industry.  You know this right?  The Lol was just in direct response to your "The developers probably made a couple million each." if you didn't know.

You can maintain your position, but at this point... unless the actual people from Ninja Theory back you up.  Your on shakey ground.


Shaky ground? I'm sorry... 30 - 40 million is way too much for even 23 people doing coke for 3 years, They had to spend it on something else

Of which... you assume it's voice acting... which Viper stated was silly.  When people in the industry shut down your arguement... it's time to shut down your arguement.  You don't do yourself any service otherwise.

At this rate, I imagine if the Ninja Theory guys themselves say they didn't pay him millions you would assume they are lieing simply because they are embarressed.

 

Also, the game development started in 2002.


Ninja Theories original name was "Just Add Monsters".

02 - 04 = 3 million bucks. IF that. High budget Wii games are said to have a budget of 7 million. Wii is said to have a higher budget than ps2/xbox. High budget Ps2 games are said to be 5 million. So even if it started in '02 there is still 35 million somewhere else

3 Million bucks.  Hey that's about how much you said Andy got... before you knew there was an Xbox version.  Also a PC version... also an Xbox 360 version.

They made 3 versions of the game before settling on PS3 exclusivity.  You don't think that's a bit costly?  

As for the 23 people... take a look at HS's credits.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/ps3/heavenly-sword/credits

I see a few more then 23.  Not to mention your assuming 30-40 million when it could just as eaisly be... Sony screwed them in their deal.

Regardless, your using blind speculation against what actual experts have said. 

If they aren't doing any actual work on the game then no it isn't costly (especially since they probablly where developing it with a generic code that could be ported easily between the 3 since we hear about how similiar xbox is to a PC) and I said 23 in '04.

Once again, you offer nothing but base assumption... why do you keep argueing in the face of actual knowledgable opinion with simple base assumptions.  Your reminding me of those people who argue against evolution... I'm just done, I think it says something that you are argueing completly alone and that many people are argueing against you, including knowledeable people in the industry, and yet you still hold to your opinion which is basde on nothing but blind assumptions.

I really do believe nothing would convince you otherwise even if Andy Serkis was produced via youtube video clip saying "I didn't even make a million dollars doing heavenly sword."

 



letsdance said:
Viper1 said:
Where in the world are you getting a $35-40 million budget from?

And I already broke down for you how much Serkis was likely paid based on average pay for his production positions and high end pay for voice work.


1.5 million copies sold.

.5 in NA x 25 (How much they get per game if their contract aint shitty) = 12.5

HS turned budget in Aug. '08 so from Sept - Aug HS sold 700k

.68 x 25 = 17

HS ended with .85

.17 x 12 = 2

.06 x 25 = 1.5

2 + 1.5 + 17 + 12.5 = 33

And 90k shy from 1.5 so around 35 million.

LMAO.  Are you trying to reverse engineer their budget based on total sales and the lack of profitability from that total?

Look, I'm not trying to belittle you or make fun of you but you really need to do a but more research into video game budgeting.

 

Say the 23 employees are their full time positions that worked the full 4 years on the project.  Average salary is $70k.   That's just $6.44 million dollars.   Say they even doubled that to 46 employees for most of it.  You're still under $13 million.  Now let's speculate that they bought several million worth of all new equipment for the PS3 iteration.   Now add in my total I listed before for Andy Serkis, a few miscellaneous costs and you're still looking at less than $20 million.

 

 

 



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
Kasz216 said:
letsdance said:
So guys... who know everything. Where did the money go?

Ninja Theory was a team of 23 in '04. They ended up with a 6 hour game. The cost is probablly close to double Uncharted's budget... so... your telling me voicing only cost a couple grand... the length is well below average... everything else is decent... yet it has a massive budget. I guess managent is putting their coke and prostitutes under the development cost eh?

I'm sorry. I stand by the voicing for this game has taken up more than its fair share of the budget. Its the only thing different than other games yet has a higher cost.

Viper and Twesterm actually work in the games Industry.  You know this right?  The Lol was just in direct response to your "The developers probably made a couple million each." if you didn't know.

You can maintain your position, but at this point... unless the actual people from Ninja Theory back you up.  Your on shakey ground.


Shaky ground? I'm sorry... 30 - 40 million is way too much for even 23 people doing coke for 3 years, They had to spend it on something else

Of which... you assume it's voice acting... which Viper stated was silly.  When people in the industry shut down your arguement... it's time to shut down your arguement.  You don't do yourself any service otherwise.

At this rate, I imagine if the Ninja Theory guys themselves say they didn't pay him millions you would assume they are lieing simply because they are embarressed.

 

Also, the game development started in 2002.


Ninja Theories original name was "Just Add Monsters".

02 - 04 = 3 million bucks. IF that. High budget Wii games are said to have a budget of 7 million. Wii is said to have a higher budget than ps2/xbox. High budget Ps2 games are said to be 5 million. So even if it started in '02 there is still 35 million somewhere else

3 Million bucks.  Hey that's about how much you said Andy got... before you knew there was an Xbox version.  Also a PC version... also an Xbox 360 version.

They made 3 versions of the game before settling on PS3 exclusivity.  You don't think that's a bit costly?  

As for the 23 people... take a look at HS's credits.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/ps3/heavenly-sword/credits

I see a few more then 23.  Not to mention your assuming 30-40 million when it could just as eaisly be... Sony screwed them in their deal.

Regardless, your using blind speculation against what actual experts have said. 

If they aren't doing any actual work on the game then no it isn't costly (especially since they probablly where developing it with a generic code that could be ported easily between the 3 since we hear about how similiar xbox is to a PC) and I said 23 in '04.

Once again, you offer nothing but base assumption... why do you keep argueing in the face of actual knowledgable opinion with simple base assumptions.  Your reminding me of those people who argue against evolution... I'm just done, I think it says something that you are argueing completly alone and that many people are argueing against you, including knowledeable people in the industry, and yet you still hold to your opinion which is basde on nothing but blind assumptions.

I really do believe nothing would convince you otherwise even if Andy Serkis was produced via youtube video clip saying "I didn't even make a million dollars doing heavenly sword."

 

Well the money went somewhere.

I'm assuming that they had 23 employees in '04?

"Ninja Theory Ltd. has acquired all the former Just Add Monster technologies, including the next-generation Heavenly Sword intellectual property, and the entire 23-person development team, allowing it to continue the work it was doing under Argonaut's financial and organizational aegis."

So in '02 - '04 they had 23 employees. 2 years worth of work no matter how many times they flip-floped between development with 23 employees wouldn't take much money at all.

Better yet "Heavenly Sword has been in development since early 2003" So 1 year of dev time with 23 employees would cost very little.

I've just now provided with more evidence than you have in this entire thread... oh wait... you provided that link which actually harms your stance.