Surveys mean squat, this is a sales site.  Using the following chart we can see the attach rates for the current systems.  If we assume half of all Wiis sold are currently occupying a place in the consumers closet it means that attach rate for active users is 13.36, possibly the highest for all current gen systems. 

	3,356,679 (+18%)	225,389,182	6.77
	2,476,298 (+61%)	537,100,756	4.19
	2,227,230 (-2%)	462,739,894	6.68
	1,756,176 (-19%)	337,203,923	8.67
	579,199 (-3%)	149,120,697	2.61
	278,249 (-5%)	n/a	n/a

Even if the abovementioned and undoubtedly reputable surveys yielded a closet occupation and dust collecting rate for the Wii as low 20% of all systems sold, the attach rate for active users would still be approaching that of the 360 and significantly higher than the PS3. 

In case you don't get my point, somebody is buying the games, whether they play them or not is for the most part irrelevant.

this poll fails as it doesn't provide a logical choice of whatever will be the tech combination of under 250 dollars.

It's a case of finding a sustainable market. The image shown by surveys etc of wii owners is that the market is not one which will come back for an improved Wii. The people who upgrade from one console to the next are the serious gamers, not the ones who enjoy a game every now and then. Unless Nintendo try to find this audience again, they have shot themselves in the long run by alienating themselves from the serious gamer.

hsrob said: Mazty said: They'll probably go for an improved wii. Either way Nintendo have shot themselves in the foot. They may be ahead at the moment, but the market buying the wii will not bother to buy an improved wii as surveys indicate that many wiis are now dust collectors, with serious gamers playing on either the xbox or ps3, resulting in all the hardcore franchises on either the ps3, pc or 360, and not with nintendo. It's hard to see what Nintendo could do as many people who own HD tvs either already own a wii or are not bothered by one, as hd is for impressive visuals, something the wii is incapable of, and without bluray, is still incapable of delivering in terms of media playback. Surveys mean squat, this is a sales site.  Using the following chart we can see the attach rates for the current systems.  If we assume half of all Wiis sold are currently occupying a place in the consumers closet it means that attach rate for active users is 13.36, possibly the highest for all current gen systems.  3,356,679 (+18%) 225,389,182 6.77 2,476,298 (+61%) 537,100,756 4.19 2,227,230 (-2%) 462,739,894 6.68 1,756,176 (-19%) 337,203,923 8.67 579,199 (-3%) 149,120,697 2.61 278,249 (-5%) n/a n/a Even if the abovementioned and undoubtedly reputable surveys yielded a closet occupation and dust collecting rate for the Wii as low 20% of all systems sold, the attach rate for active users would still be approaching that of the 360 and significantly higher than the PS3.  In case you don't get my point, somebody is buying the games, whether they play them or not is for the most part irrelevant.

Does the attach rate include accessories? If so then the wii figures are going to be hideously messed due to the numb-chuck, steering wheel etc.
Plus is there any specific games that are being sold? If it's just shovelware, then my point stands that the owners of the wii are not serious gamers and therefore the wii market is not sustainable in the long run.

Mazty said: hsrob said: Mazty said: They'll probably go for an improved wii. Either way Nintendo have shot themselves in the foot. They may be ahead at the moment, but the market buying the wii will not bother to buy an improved wii as surveys indicate that many wiis are now dust collectors, with serious gamers playing on either the xbox or ps3, resulting in all the hardcore franchises on either the ps3, pc or 360, and not with nintendo. It's hard to see what Nintendo could do as many people who own HD tvs either already own a wii or are not bothered by one, as hd is for impressive visuals, something the wii is incapable of, and without bluray, is still incapable of delivering in terms of media playback. Surveys mean squat, this is a sales site.  Using the following chart we can see the attach rates for the current systems.  If we assume half of all Wiis sold are currently occupying a place in the consumers closet it means that attach rate for active users is 13.36, possibly the highest for all current gen systems.  3,356,679 (+18%) 225,389,182 6.77 2,476,298 (+61%) 537,100,756 4.19 2,227,230 (-2%) 462,739,894 6.68 1,756,176 (-19%) 337,203,923 8.67 579,199 (-3%) 149,120,697 2.61 278,249 (-5%) n/a n/a Even if the abovementioned and undoubtedly reputable surveys yielded a closet occupation and dust collecting rate for the Wii as low 20% of all systems sold, the attach rate for active users would still be approaching that of the 360 and significantly higher than the PS3.  In case you don't get my point, somebody is buying the games, whether they play them or not is for the most part irrelevant.   Does the attach rate include accessories? If so then the wii figures are going to be hideously messed due to the numb-chuck, steering wheel etc. Plus is there any specific games that are being sold? If it's just shovelware, then my point stands that the owners of the wii are not serious gamers and therefore the wii market is not sustainable in the long run.

Why would it include accessories, it's games only. 

In the scale of time which matters to consoles the Wii has already proven that it is sustainable in the long run.   The Wii could be cut today and the sales it has already achieved make it an unqualified success. The attach rate has been rising continuously since it's release rather than falling so it's owners are sure buying alot of games for people that aren't 'serious' gamers. Whether you see particular value in these games is once again irrelevant when 70+ million do.

hsrob said: Mazty said: hsrob said: Mazty said: They'll probably go for an improved wii. Either way Nintendo have shot themselves in the foot. They may be ahead at the moment, but the market buying the wii will not bother to buy an improved wii as surveys indicate that many wiis are now dust collectors, with serious gamers playing on either the xbox or ps3, resulting in all the hardcore franchises on either the ps3, pc or 360, and not with nintendo. It's hard to see what Nintendo could do as many people who own HD tvs either already own a wii or are not bothered by one, as hd is for impressive visuals, something the wii is incapable of, and without bluray, is still incapable of delivering in terms of media playback. Surveys mean squat, this is a sales site.  Using the following chart we can see the attach rates for the current systems.  If we assume half of all Wiis sold are currently occupying a place in the consumers closet it means that attach rate for active users is 13.36, possibly the highest for all current gen systems.  3,356,679 (+18%) 225,389,182 6.77 2,476,298 (+61%) 537,100,756 4.19 2,227,230 (-2%) 462,739,894 6.68 1,756,176 (-19%) 337,203,923 8.67 579,199 (-3%) 149,120,697 2.61 278,249 (-5%) n/a n/a Even if the abovementioned and undoubtedly reputable surveys yielded a closet occupation and dust collecting rate for the Wii as low 20% of all systems sold, the attach rate for active users would still be approaching that of the 360 and significantly higher than the PS3.  In case you don't get my point, somebody is buying the games, whether they play them or not is for the most part irrelevant.   Does the attach rate include accessories? If so then the wii figures are going to be hideously messed due to the numb-chuck, steering wheel etc. Plus is there any specific games that are being sold? If it's just shovelware, then my point stands that the owners of the wii are not serious gamers and therefore the wii market is not sustainable in the long run. Why would it include accessories, it's games only.  In the scale of time which matters to consoles the Wii has already proven that it is sustainable in the long run.   The Wii could be cut today and the sales it has already achieved make it an unqualified success. The attach rate has been rising continuously since it's release rather than falling so it's owners are sure buying alot of games for people that aren't 'serious' gamers. Whether you see particular value in these games is once again irrelevant when 70+ million do.

...Since when does high sales = sustainable into the next generation? The attach rate means nothing unless you can analyse what games are being sold. If they are all high quality titles, then yes, it would seem that true gamers are using the wii, so people who would be interested in purchasing a next gen console. If not then it is dubious whether these owners would purchase a future console, which could cause concern for Nintendo if you look into the next gen.

You are ignoring the idea that if they are just buying junk, they most likely would not be interested in a new wii, meaning that if Nintendo released anything other than a power house of a console, they are going to flop.

Mazty said: hsrob said: Mazty said: They'll probably go for an improved wii. Either way Nintendo have shot themselves in the foot. They may be ahead at the moment, but the market buying the wii will not bother to buy an improved wii as surveys indicate that many wiis are now dust collectors, with serious gamers playing on either the xbox or ps3, resulting in all the hardcore franchises on either the ps3, pc or 360, and not with nintendo. It's hard to see what Nintendo could do as many people who own HD tvs either already own a wii or are not bothered by one, as hd is for impressive visuals, something the wii is incapable of, and without bluray, is still incapable of delivering in terms of media playback. Surveys mean squat, this is a sales site.  Using the following chart we can see the attach rates for the current systems.  If we assume half of all Wiis sold are currently occupying a place in the consumers closet it means that attach rate for active users is 13.36, possibly the highest for all current gen systems.  3,356,679 (+18%) 225,389,182 6.77 2,476,298 (+61%) 537,100,756 4.19 2,227,230 (-2%) 462,739,894 6.68 1,756,176 (-19%) 337,203,923 8.67 579,199 (-3%) 149,120,697 2.61 278,249 (-5%) n/a n/a Even if the abovementioned and undoubtedly reputable surveys yielded a closet occupation and dust collecting rate for the Wii as low 20% of all systems sold, the attach rate for active users would still be approaching that of the 360 and significantly higher than the PS3.  In case you don't get my point, somebody is buying the games, whether they play them or not is for the most part irrelevant.   Does the attach rate include accessories? If so then the wii figures are going to be hideously messed due to the numb-chuck, steering wheel etc. Plus is there any specific games that are being sold? If it's just shovelware, then my point stands that the owners of the wii are not serious gamers and therefore the wii market is not sustainable in the long run.

First of all, you could make the same argument against the PS3.

Second of all, just trying to claim the Wii has 'shovelware' while the PS3 doesn't when the presented data shows they have near the same attach rate makes for a weak argument no matter how you look at it.

Third, because the successor to the Wii could come out years before the next major console and with 3-4x the install base of its predecessors, that's where its true advantage lies.

Last of all, I could claim there's just as many people who own a Wii who are 'serious gamers' as there are who own PS3 and 'don't play it often'.  But there's no data to back it up so let's not use those types of generalizations.

sorry for the missunderstanding. I did mean consoles as opposed to handhelds.

If i'm not mistaken, all nintendo consoles came after the competition.

Kenryoku_Maxis said: Mazty said: hsrob said: Mazty said: They'll probably go for an improved wii. Either way Nintendo have shot themselves in the foot. They may be ahead at the moment, but the market buying the wii will not bother to buy an improved wii as surveys indicate that many wiis are now dust collectors, with serious gamers playing on either the xbox or ps3, resulting in all the hardcore franchises on either the ps3, pc or 360, and not with nintendo. It's hard to see what Nintendo could do as many people who own HD tvs either already own a wii or are not bothered by one, as hd is for impressive visuals, something the wii is incapable of, and without bluray, is still incapable of delivering in terms of media playback. Surveys mean squat, this is a sales site.  Using the following chart we can see the attach rates for the current systems.  If we assume half of all Wiis sold are currently occupying a place in the consumers closet it means that attach rate for active users is 13.36, possibly the highest for all current gen systems.  3,356,679 (+18%) 225,389,182 6.77 2,476,298 (+61%) 537,100,756 4.19 2,227,230 (-2%) 462,739,894 6.68 1,756,176 (-19%) 337,203,923 8.67 579,199 (-3%) 149,120,697 2.61 278,249 (-5%) n/a n/a Even if the abovementioned and undoubtedly reputable surveys yielded a closet occupation and dust collecting rate for the Wii as low 20% of all systems sold, the attach rate for active users would still be approaching that of the 360 and significantly higher than the PS3.  In case you don't get my point, somebody is buying the games, whether they play them or not is for the most part irrelevant.   Does the attach rate include accessories? If so then the wii figures are going to be hideously messed due to the numb-chuck, steering wheel etc. Plus is there any specific games that are being sold? If it's just shovelware, then my point stands that the owners of the wii are not serious gamers and therefore the wii market is not sustainable in the long run. First of all, you could make the same argument against the PS3. Second of all, just trying to claim the Wii has 'shovelware' while the PS3 doesn't when the presented data shows they have near the same attach rate makes for a weak argument no matter how you look at it. Third, because the successor to the Wii could come out years before the next major console and with 3-4x the install base of its predecessors, that's where its true advantage lies. Last of all, I could claim there's just as many people who own a Wii who are 'serious gamers' as there are who own PS3 and 'don't play it often'.  But there's no data to back it up so let's not use those types of generalizations.

Well you could make the argument against the PS3, apart from the fact the term shovelware came from the junk games produced on mass for the wii...
Yes it is a hypothetical argument, but one rooted in, as i said, surveys which suggest many wii owners do not tend to play on their consoles for an amount of time that a serious gamer would.
Problem is the install base, as I've been saying, may not be interested in another console, because they are content with what the wii offers. Clearly they did not want good graphics (360 and PS3 provide better) or media playback, or even a remote that worked 'well' (180ms lag), so why would they buy a better console if they are happy with dated graphics and a laggy pad?

Yes again this is hypothetical, but not something that should just be dismissed as the above point shows that wii owners have not got a want for high quality, therefore why buy a better Wii?

@axt113: 

DS sales starting to decline?  Definitely not; 2009 was not only the DS's biggest year yet, it was the biggest selling system in a single year ever, handheld or console.

As far as waiting until Move and Natal establish themselves, that's exactly what Nintendo should NOT do.  Doesn't mean they won't, but they shouldn't rest on their laurels; that's what got them in trouble against the Playstation.