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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy 13 vs other JRPG's this gen

Alic0004 on 13 March 2010
kowenicki said:
LO and FFXIII deserve over 90.

Agreed!  And Tales of Vesperia should be a lot higher as well.  If the trend continues and reviewers continue to feel like they're doing everyone a favor by reviewing JRPGs from the perspective of gamers who generally only enjoy shooting games, next gen there won't be a JRPG that gets above a 70.

 

 



 

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Alic0004 on 13 March 2010
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Xxain said:
BS is BS... FFXlll deserves to rated in 90's it just being a JRPG in western dominated Gen is tough so its unfairly judged


You can't blame the west for getting tired of playing the same type of game over and over again.

Seems like there have been great advancements in almost every genre this gen. However, JRPGs feel like the same crap we've been playing for years.

I'm really getting tired of people justifying their dislike or not playing a game based on a 'review'.  If you don't like JRPGs, then just come out and say it.  Stop arguing over 'scores' or trying to whine over reviewers not giving JRPGs 'equal treatment'.  Reviewers have massive bias and are going to downscore JRPGs.  Just like reviewers in Japan are going to inflate the scores for RPGs in Japan.  Its a fact.  Just get over it.  And if you are trying to use review scores to justify that JRPGs are 'not evolving' or 'the same shit', then you have no case.  You're just repeating the same junk you've been hearing from the 'anti JRPG' crowd and reviewers of JRPGs.

Amen.  A-motherf'ing-men.  :p

As much as that reads like you're just getting on someone's case, you made great points there Ken.



 

Kenryoku_Maxis on 13 March 2010
Mr Puggsly said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Xxain said:
BS is BS... FFXlll deserves to rated in 90's it just being a JRPG in western dominated Gen is tough so its unfairly judged


You can't blame the west for getting tired of playing the same type of game over and over again.

Seems like there have been great advancements in almost every genre this gen. However, JRPGs feel like the same crap we've been playing for years.

I'm really getting tired of people justifying their dislike or not playing a game based on a 'review'.  If you don't like JRPGs, then just come out and say it.  Stop arguing over 'scores' or trying to whine over reviewers not giving JRPGs 'equal treatment'.  Reviewers have massive bias and are going to downscore JRPGs.  Just like reviewers in Japan are going to inflate the scores for RPGs in Japan.  Its a fact.  Just get over it.  And if you are trying to use review scores to justify that JRPGs are 'not evolving' or 'the same shit', then you have no case.  You're just repeating the same junk you've been hearing from the 'anti JRPG' crowd and reviewers of JRPGs.

Its not that I hate JRPGs, its just been a long time since I felt like I'm play something great. Bear in mind I still do play them, I have several on the 360, but I haven't completed because I lose interest. So I understand why they are getting low scores.

I reserve my opinions of FFXIII because I haven't played. But I will down the road. However, I disagree with the notion that JRPGs are getting lower scores because of a bias. I think reviewers are just tired of playing JRPGs that feel like games we've been playing for years.

Again, this goes back to my points about how most people 'in the west' aren't even looking at the majority of JRPGs.  Which are on, wait for it....handhelds.  And the majority of their experience with JRPGs can be summed up in one of three main series.

Good for you, you have played plenty.  But by your own admittance, you only played a select set of games on the 360.  I really have no quarrels against any specific JRPGs, but it does seem the trend that people 'in the west' are looking at only specific types of things when they are looking for RPGs.  And when it comes to JRPGs, quite often they are being pegged as 'old and formulaic'.  Yet what do I hear time and time again?  People are only playing 'certain' games on 'certain' systems (mostly only 'high end graphical' JRPGs on 'HD' consoles).  You can't hand pick games in a genre and then downplay the WHOLE genre for being 'stale'.  It would be like someone simply playing Crysis and saying 'FPS have no innovation' or someone playing Little King Story and saying 'RTS games lack good controls'.

Do you see what I'm saying?  And I'm sorry if it seems like I'm blowing up about such a simple topic and I really am not targeting you specifically, but its just....this topic is getting really old and its pretty much been going on since last gen.  And its just getting more and more inane.  Mostly due to 'reviewers' and people who think they suddenly are the greatest of RPG fans and know what a 'true' RPG is because they played Mass Effect and Fallout 3.



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rocketpig on 13 March 2010
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Xxain said:
BS is BS... FFXlll deserves to rated in 90's it just being a JRPG in western dominated Gen is tough so its unfairly judged


You can't blame the west for getting tired of playing the same type of game over and over again.

Seems like there have been great advancements in almost every genre this gen. However, JRPGs feel like the same crap we've been playing for years.

I'm really getting tired of people justifying their dislike or not playing a game based on a 'review'.  If you don't like JRPGs, then just come out and say it.  Stop arguing over 'scores' or trying to whine over reviewers not giving JRPGs 'equal treatment'.  Reviewers have massive bias and are going to downscore JRPGs.  Just like reviewers in Japan are going to inflate the scores for RPGs in Japan.  Its a fact.  Just get over it.  And if you are trying to use review scores to justify that JRPGs are 'not evolving' or 'the same shit', then you have no case.  You're just repeating the same junk you've been hearing from the 'anti JRPG' crowd and reviewers of JRPGs.

Its not that I hate JRPGs, its just been a long time since I felt like I'm play something great. Bear in mind I still do play them, I have several on the 360, but I haven't completed because I lose interest. So I understand why they are getting low scores.

I reserve my opinions of FFXIII because I haven't played. But I will down the road. However, I disagree with the notion that JRPGs are getting lower scores because of a bias. I think reviewers are just tired of playing JRPGs that feel like games we've been playing for years.

Again, this goes back to my points about how most people 'in the west' aren't even looking at the majority of JRPGs.  Which are on, wait for it....handhelds.  And the majority of their experience with JRPGs can be summed up in one of three main series.

Good for you, you have played plenty.  But by your own admittance, you only played a select set of games on the 360.  I really have no quarrels against any specific JRPGs, but it does seem the trend that people 'in the west' are looking at only specific types of things when they are looking for RPGs.  And when it comes to JRPGs, quite often they are being pegged as 'old and formulaic'.  Yet what do I hear time and time again?  People are only playing 'certain' games on 'certain' systems (mostly only 'high end graphical' JRPGs on 'HD' consoles).  You can't hand pick games in a genre and then downplay the WHOLE genre for being 'stale'.  It would be like someone simply playing Crysis and saying 'FPS have no innovation' or someone playing Little King Story and saying 'RTS games lack good controls'.

Do you see what I'm saying?  And I'm sorry if it seems like I'm blowing up about such a simple topic and I really am not targeting you specifically, but its just....this topic is getting really old and its pretty much been going on since last gen.  And its just getting more and more inane.  Mostly due to 'reviewers' and people who think they suddenly are the greatest of RPG fans and know what a 'true' RPG is because they played Mass Effect and Fallout 3.

I agree with you 100% but most of the console JRPG experiences this generation HAVE been the same old shit. I played Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon (actually my favorite of the bunch), Folklore (barely a JRPG), and Lost Odyssey thus far. I burned out at that point and stopped. I was looking at FF XIII but a few of my friends (whose opinions I actually trust about games and aren't slobbering fanboys) have classified the game somewhere between "meh" and "OMG I'm going to bang my fucking head against a wall because I feel like I've played this game 500 times in my life already". Not exactly a ringing endorsement for me to go drop $60 on it.

And this "reviewers hate JRPGs and are biased" crap needs to stop, man. There just haven't been many good JRPGs this generation. Yes, they overblow shooters. I'm the first to admit that. On the other hand, I think they nail most JRPGs straight on the mark. Look at some of the handheld JRPGs... TWEWY Metacritic'ed at 88. Totally fair score for that game and borderline great. Chrono Trigger pulled down a 92. FF IV pulled an 85. Not bad for a 20 year old game with a 3D coating.

The fact is that people should be blaming developers for pushing out entirely mediocre product, not the reviewers for calling them out on it. If anything, this is the ONE CASE where reviewers are getting it right.




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Kenryoku_Maxis on 13 March 2010
rocketpig said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Its not that I hate JRPGs, its just been a long time since I felt like I'm play something great. Bear in mind I still do play them, I have several on the 360, but I haven't completed because I lose interest. So I understand why they are getting low scores.

I reserve my opinions of FFXIII because I haven't played. But I will down the road. However, I disagree with the notion that JRPGs are getting lower scores because of a bias. I think reviewers are just tired of playing JRPGs that feel like games we've been playing for years.

Again, this goes back to my points about how most people 'in the west' aren't even looking at the majority of JRPGs.  Which are on, wait for it....handhelds.  And the majority of their experience with JRPGs can be summed up in one of three main series.

Good for you, you have played plenty.  But by your own admittance, you only played a select set of games on the 360.  I really have no quarrels against any specific JRPGs, but it does seem the trend that people 'in the west' are looking at only specific types of things when they are looking for RPGs.  And when it comes to JRPGs, quite often they are being pegged as 'old and formulaic'.  Yet what do I hear time and time again?  People are only playing 'certain' games on 'certain' systems (mostly only 'high end graphical' JRPGs on 'HD' consoles).  You can't hand pick games in a genre and then downplay the WHOLE genre for being 'stale'.  It would be like someone simply playing Crysis and saying 'FPS have no innovation' or someone playing Little King Story and saying 'RTS games lack good controls'.

Do you see what I'm saying?  And I'm sorry if it seems like I'm blowing up about such a simple topic and I really am not targeting you specifically, but its just....this topic is getting really old and its pretty much been going on since last gen.  And its just getting more and more inane.  Mostly due to 'reviewers' and people who think they suddenly are the greatest of RPG fans and know what a 'true' RPG is because they played Mass Effect and Fallout 3.

I agree with you 100% but most of the console JRPG experiences this generation HAVE been the same old shit. I played Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon (actually my favorite of the bunch), Folklore (barely a JRPG), and Lost Odyssey thus far. I burned out at that point and stopped. I was looking at FF XIII but a few of my friends (whose opinions I actually trust about games and aren't slobbering fanboys) have classified the game somewhere between "meh" and "OMG I'm going to bang my fucking head against a wall because I feel like I've played this game 500 times in my life already". Not exactly a ringing endorsement for me to go drop $60 on it.

And this "reviewers hate JRPGs and are biased" crap needs to stop, man. There just haven't been many good JRPGs this generation. Yes, they overblow shooters. I'm the first to admit that. On the other hand, I think they nail most JRPGs straight on the mark. Look at some of the handheld JRPGs... TWEWY Metacritic'ed at 88. Totally fair score for that game and borderline great. Chrono Trigger pulled down a 92. FF IV pulled an 85. Not bad for a 20 year old game with a 3D coating.

The fact is that people should be blaming developers for pushing out entirely mediocre product, not the reviewers for calling them out on it. If anything, this is the ONE CASE where reviewers are getting it right.

I can't really comment on the console side of reviewers opinions, but as for handheld scores, I don't really think they're exactly scoring them well.  But then, there's some OTHER bias going on there, mostly due to the fact that I think handheld games get downscored overall (mostly because they're unjustly compared to console games).  But considering the majority of JRPG games are on handhelds, and what I consider to be the better or 'more inovative' JRPGs are on handhelds, this is a problem.

I mean, when you have the major games from series like Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Pokemon, Mario & Luigi, Harvest Moon, Advance Wars, Disgaea, etc all avg under 90 due to being on a handheld, that's already going to give people an image that JRPGs are 'inferior'.  Its no wonder that everyone in the west is expecting FFXIII to be the end all of the JRPG genre.

Yet arguably the biggest JRPG this gen so far was Dragon Quest IX, and no one in the west is even looking at it because its a handheld game AND a Dragon Quest game.



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mitsuhide on 13 March 2010
Mr Puggsly said:
mitsuhide said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Xxain said:
BS is BS... FFXlll deserves to rated in 90's it just being a JRPG in western dominated Gen is tough so its unfairly judged


You can't blame the west for getting tired of playing the same type of game over and over again.

Seems like there have been great advancements in almost every genre this gen. However, JRPGs feel like the same crap we've been playing for years.

but what about FPS's there are more of them than anyother game this gen, its absolutley ridiculous, it seems like we are losing variety as gaming progresses.

 

also on point, it definately should be in the 90's but i think its just because EDGE mag reviewed it at 5/10 as brought the average down from what it should be, dicount that review and i think the rating goes upto about 89% or 91% i think which is much closer to what it actually is.

i haven't played many JRPG's this gen as not many seem to be making it to the UK, still waiting for Demon's Soul which looks amazing. Agarest was a major dissapointment and Star Ocean was alright but didnt grab me from the get go it was just sort of filler game to get me ready for FFXIII. However WRPG's have been less than numerous with the only decent ones being Dragon Age and Oblivion. RPG's as a genre is definitely losing against FPS which as i said early are ruling this gen.

This is by the way from a PS3 in the UK perspective it might be different on the X360 or in the states. 

Well the east doesn't get tired of JRPGs and west doesn't get tired of shooters. What can I say? But I will defend shooters by saying they don't go on for 50 - 100 hours. The popular ones like Halo, CoD, and Gears are short and sweet. And a lot of people tend to buy them for the multiplayer experience. I can also say that the shooters are better than ever. The JRPGs feel about the same.

This is the first gen I can actually say that I've loved WRPGs. Mass Effect 1 & 2, Fallout 3 and Oblivion are fantastic. I just purchased Dragon's Age but I haven't played it yet. Fable 2 was also solid. But the great thing about WRPGs is they don't follow a basic formula like many JRPGs do.

Well I'm a 360 fan in the US, but I'm disappointed that the JRPGs of today don't feel much different than the games I've played over the last 15 years.

true, the west is shooter crazy at the moment especially, in the UK atleast. i did like the short and sweetness of CoD and Halo good stories given quickly and then Killzone 2 was about 10 hours but was well worth it as it was just always fun to play never had its boring parts at all. However im not a big one for mulitplayer games really, did play Cod4 for about a day in total online but it did get really boring and i havent touched the game for almost a year now.

WRPG's have definitely gotten better this gen, Dragon Age, Fallout 3 and Oblivion all excellent. You will enjoy Dragon Age if you enjoyed Oblivion, quite similar in style. 



End of 2014 Hardware Predictions (03/03/14)

PlayStation 4: 12-15million

Xbox One: 7-10 million

Wii U: 8-9 million (Changed 01/04/2014 from 7-9 --> 8-9 million)

jarrod on 13 March 2010
mitsuhide said:

WRPG's have definitely gotten better this gen,

I think virtually every dedicated PC gamer would disagree with this statement.  If anything, WRPGs have gotten dumbed down this gen...



--OkeyDokey-- on 13 March 2010

Wow, I thought ToV was mid-80's.



rocketpig on 13 March 2010
jarrod said:
mitsuhide said:

WRPG's have definitely gotten better this gen,

I think virtually every dedicated PC gamer would disagree with this statement.  If anything, WRPGs have gotten dumbed down this gen...

Agreed. Other than Mass Effect 2, every WRPG this generation has had some pretty significant flaws. Surprisingly enough, I think Fallout 3 may be the second-best WRPG so far this gen. Compared to the WRPG heyday of 2003-2005, there haven't been a lot of really impressive offerings, though there have been several very good games.




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Mr Puggsly on 13 March 2010
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Xxain said:
BS is BS... FFXlll deserves to rated in 90's it just being a JRPG in western dominated Gen is tough so its unfairly judged


You can't blame the west for getting tired of playing the same type of game over and over again.

Seems like there have been great advancements in almost every genre this gen. However, JRPGs feel like the same crap we've been playing for years.

I'm really getting tired of people justifying their dislike or not playing a game based on a 'review'.  If you don't like JRPGs, then just come out and say it.  Stop arguing over 'scores' or trying to whine over reviewers not giving JRPGs 'equal treatment'.  Reviewers have massive bias and are going to downscore JRPGs.  Just like reviewers in Japan are going to inflate the scores for RPGs in Japan.  Its a fact.  Just get over it.  And if you are trying to use review scores to justify that JRPGs are 'not evolving' or 'the same shit', then you have no case.  You're just repeating the same junk you've been hearing from the 'anti JRPG' crowd and reviewers of JRPGs.

Its not that I hate JRPGs, its just been a long time since I felt like I'm play something great. Bear in mind I still do play them, I have several on the 360, but I haven't completed because I lose interest. So I understand why they are getting low scores.

I reserve my opinions of FFXIII because I haven't played. But I will down the road. However, I disagree with the notion that JRPGs are getting lower scores because of a bias. I think reviewers are just tired of playing JRPGs that feel like games we've been playing for years.

Again, this goes back to my points about how most people 'in the west' aren't even looking at the majority of JRPGs.  Which are on, wait for it....handhelds.  And the majority of their experience with JRPGs can be summed up in one of three main series.

Good for you, you have played plenty.  But by your own admittance, you only played a select set of games on the 360.  I really have no quarrels against any specific JRPGs, but it does seem the trend that people 'in the west' are looking at only specific types of things when they are looking for RPGs.  And when it comes to JRPGs, quite often they are being pegged as 'old and formulaic'.  Yet what do I hear time and time again?  People are only playing 'certain' games on 'certain' systems (mostly only 'high end graphical' JRPGs on 'HD' consoles).  You can't hand pick games in a genre and then downplay the WHOLE genre for being 'stale'.  It would be like someone simply playing Crysis and saying 'FPS have no innovation' or someone playing Little King Story and saying 'RTS games lack good controls'.

Do you see what I'm saying?  And I'm sorry if it seems like I'm blowing up about such a simple topic and I really am not targeting you specifically, but its just....this topic is getting really old and its pretty much been going on since last gen.  And its just getting more and more inane.  Mostly due to 'reviewers' and people who think they suddenly are the greatest of RPG fans and know what a 'true' RPG is because they played Mass Effect and Fallout 3.

Well how many JRPGs can we play? There are like a dozen on the 360, the PS3 has about a dozen as well. The DS seems to get several new JRPGs every month. The west might be shooter crazy, but we are also drowning JRPGs. And lets remember the west makes up for a majority of JRPG sales (maybe not always, but very often).

I actually bought a DS because I wanted to dabble in the JRPG library. Unfortunately I get bored of them as well. How many JRPGs do I need to play before I can have an opinion? 80? 90? I imagine that many have been released this gen. They shit them out like crazy on every console.



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