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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Twilight Princess vs Skyward Sword

 

I prefer...

Twilight Princess 62 63.27%
 
Skyward Sword 36 36.73%
 
Total:98
Runa216 said:
I still find it so odd that so many people like Skyward Sword. I know I've said that here before, but it remains true. Maybe it's just the audible minority or something? (It did get lower review scores and much weaker sales than Twilight Princess, so it must be the overall less-liked of the two)

for me, my rankings for all the Zelda games I've played:

1 - A Link to the Past - 9.9
2 - Breath of the Wild - 9.7
3 - Wind Waker - 9.6
4 - A Link Between Worlds - 9.4
5 - Twilight Princess - 9.2
6 - Four Swords Adventures - 9.0
7 - The Minish Cap - 8.9
6 - Oracle of Seasons/Ages - 8.7
5 - The Legend of Zelda - 7.8
6 - Link's Awakening - 7.5
7 - Ocarina of Time - 7.2
8 - Majora's Mask - 7.2
9 - Tri-Force Heroes 6.3
10 - Phantom Hourglass - 4.8
11 - Spirit Tracks 4.5
12 - The Adventure of Link 3.7
13 - Skyward Sword 2.4

Again, I really, really, REALLY hated skyward Sword. I hated the attempt at writing a romance but still not giving Link dialogue. I hated all the side characters. I hated the art direction. I liked the IDEA of a linear Zelda but felt the implementation was off. I hated the controls and despite playing for ~20 hours I could never get them to work with any consistency (This was the main thing; I could adapt to the rest of the game but those controls were terrible.)

Skyward Sword is in my list of 'games I hate from franchises I otherwise love!', alongside FFXIII, GTAIV, Mega Man X7, Mega Man 1, Assassin's Creed: Unity, and a handful of others. I guess people who got the controls to work might have had a wildly different experience, but again, as long as those controls don't work for me, that fundamentally breaks the game and ruins everything else. I fundamentally dislike the entire last bit of Final Fantasy XV's story and world, but the combat is fun so I can get over it. Opposite here. IF the game comes out on Switch I'll be sure to give it another shot, but 20 hours is a long time to play a game without the controls ever really working properly.

Every time a second Zelda game releases on the same console, it always sells less than the first.  That's just how it goes.  The Legend of Zelda outsold The Adventure of Link.  Ocarina of Time outsold Majora's Mask.  Phantom Hourglass outsold Spirit Tracks.  Twilight Princess outsold Skyward Sword.  And I can almost guarantee the Breath of the Wild sequel will sell less than the first.

The controls worked perfectly for me.  I don't know what to tell you on that.  I have seen some Youtube videos where they show both the screen and have an overlay of the person playing in the corner.  That could be a way to see if you are doing the moves correctly.  Did you ever play Wii Sports Resort?  That game is almost a tutorial for Skyward Sword.  So much between those games works the same.

I liked the structure of Skyward Sword a lot.  I felt like for both that game and Mario Galaxy, Nintendo basically took the structure of the 2D games and mapped it into 3D the best they could.  I've gone into this more in depth before, but basically SM64 and Sunshine were about exploring and finding stars.  The 2D games and Galaxy, are just about getting to the end of the level.  You know where you need to go from the very start.  For Zelda, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess all have wide open overworlds with relatively few enemies.  The 2D Zeldas and Skyward Sword have more maze-like overworlds with heavier concentrations of enemies.  Combat and map traversal are more emphasized.



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Leynos said:
curl-6 said:

I loved Ocarina of Time, but the 3 day mechanic made Majora basically unplayable to me, I just couldn't stand having to constantly redo things.

Zelda 1 and 2 were great on NES. Zelda II reminds me somewhat of Ys 3. Ys 1 and Zelda 1 are top-down. Ys 3 and Zelda 2 become a more side view and tougher games. Fantastic games still. I normally hate this meme but I'm somewhat serious when I say. Zelda II is the NES Dark Souls in how enemies behave and how you as a player fight them. Not the difficulty alone since all NES games are balls hard.

I always find it funny that just about everyone finds Zelda 2 more difficult than 1. For me it's the opposite, Zelda 2 might have been one of the first games I ever completed. I don't have much issue finishing it today (as I have finished it twice very recently), but I still have yet to complete the first Zelda game. It's normally about dungeon 5 or 6 where I get stuck, and healing up takes so much longer in Zelda 1 than Zelda 2.

Then again, I knew the tricks to Zelda 2 (such as late game boss>level hopping) from around the first time I played when I was a kind. I am also much more into RPGs and stat exploitation is something I have always understood well; a valuable skill for Zelda 2, despite its very basic RPG mechanics. But to me, Zelda 2 is actually the easier game of the two. Of course, Link to the Past was probably among the easiest adventure games I ever played at the point of its release.

Why do I think people struggle with Zelda 2 over the first game? I think there are two very clear reasons.

1. Zelda is, IMO, the more difficult game. Despite Zelda 2's reputation, I think Zelda 1 ramps up the difficulty faster than Zelda 2. Where Zelda 2 is harder is in how spiky it is. The first few areas are easier than any location in Zelda 1, but then Death Mountain comes up. Death Mountain is not particularly more difficult than Zelda 1, it's just that dying 10-20 times is normal in the first Zelda, and is highly abnormal in Zelda 2. So I think enemy difficulty is mostly perception.

2A. Zelda 1 uses adventure mechanics for health while Zelda 2 uses ass-backward RPG mechanics. Basically, Zelda 2 destroys all of your experience points if you get game over. Those experience points are vital to the difficulty curve.

2B. I mentioned boss>level hopping earlier - basically, you do NOT need to kill bosses to progress in Zelda 2, and killing bosses auto-levels your character. If you auto-level early on, it is fairly wasteful because those early levels are really easy to get. The later levels take an immense amount of work, but can be done very quickly by heading back to dungeon 1 and killing the boss later on, then dungeon 2, and so on; and while this is an exploit, it doesn't impact the gave curve, it only reduces the grinding. The only way the game curve is impacted is if you are not sufficiently leveled.

2C. I think many Zelda 1 players went into Zelda 2 without an understanding of the concept of XP level value abstraction on attack power, rather than the more simplistic adventure style Sword C is better than Sword B which is better than Sword A. So, it is probable that the Zelda 2 that I played was an easier game than the one most played simply because my version of Link was literally much more powerful.

Moral of the story, if you beat Zelda 1, you are a more skilled NES Zelda player than me. Because success in Zelda 2 is actually based less on skill and more on levels.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Anyway, my ranking of Zelda games based on how much I liked them on my most recent playthroughs rather than any real attempt to try and assess quality:

1. Breath of the Wild
2. Link to the Past
3. Link Between Worlds
4. Ocarina of Time
5. Majora's Mask
6. Zelda 2
7. Link's Awakening
8. Skyward Sword
9. Twilight Princess
10. Wind Waker
11. Zelda 1

I skipped out some games I have played, but either they were so long ago (Oracle games) or didn't leave enough impression on me (4 Swords) to properly assess how much I like/dislike them.

Ocarina of Time used to be my favourite, but I haven't been able to seriously pick that one up, or older 3D Zeldas since playing Breath of the Wild. The paradigm shift was so good that it makes the older Zelda games seem small and annoying in how they are structured behind so many "Find key A in large area B in order to proceed to C" type puzzles that line a critical path - Breath of the Wild got rid of the whole concept of a critical path and gave players freedom. The moment I realized I had to look at a guide to find something I had forgotten was the moment I realized I hated 3D Zelda prior to Breath of the Wild.

What Breath of the Wild also did was made dungeons fun again, rather than a series of chores. The last Zelda game where I found the dungeons fun was Link to the Past. That is why it is my second favourite one. And Link Between Worlds is 3rd because it is basically a remake of Link to the Past with some expansion. Also, Link to the Past has short dungeons, and the game feels alive in the overworld. 3D Zelda prior to Breath of the Wild made the overworld feel like an obstacle course between dungeons - and, I know people won't agree with me here, but I think dungeons suck for the most part. The games where they're actually fun are few and far between: Breath of the Wild is one, Chrono Trigger is another, Link to the Past is another, and I struggle to think of others where I actually think "This dungeon is fun!"



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

theRepublic said:
curl-6 said:

Get onto it man, it's amazing and will give you 100+ hours of gaming.

I still don't own a Switch, and I don't really want to play it on the Wii U since I heard they removed all the GamePad functions.  It will be the first game I get when I do move on to the Switch.  I just have so many games to play right now it is difficult to justify a new console.

Fair enough. If you do have a Wii U I'd argue that it's still an amazing game on that platform without Gamepad features. If you're set on getting it for Switch though, it should definitely be one of the first games you buy if/when you pick the system up.



Jumpin said:
Anyway, my ranking of Zelda games based on how much I liked them on my most recent playthroughs rather than any real attempt to try and assess quality:

1. Breath of the Wild
2. Link to the Past
3. Link Between Worlds
4. Ocarina of Time
5. Majora's Mask
6. Zelda 2
7. Link's Awakening
8. Skyward Sword
9. Twilight Princess
10. Wind Waker
11. Zelda 1

I skipped out some games I have played, but either they were so long ago (Oracle games) or didn't leave enough impression on me (4 Swords) to properly assess how much I like/dislike them.

Ocarina of Time used to be my favourite, but I haven't been able to seriously pick that one up, or older 3D Zeldas since playing Breath of the Wild. The paradigm shift was so good that it makes the older Zelda games seem small and annoying in how they are structured behind so many "Find key A in large area B in order to proceed to C" type puzzles that line a critical path - Breath of the Wild got rid of the whole concept of a critical path and gave players freedom. The moment I realized I had to look at a guide to find something I had forgotten was the moment I realized I hated 3D Zelda prior to Breath of the Wild.

What Breath of the Wild also did was made dungeons fun again, rather than a series of chores. The last Zelda game where I found the dungeons fun was Link to the Past. That is why it is my second favourite one. And Link Between Worlds is 3rd because it is basically a remake of Link to the Past with some expansion. Also, Link to the Past has short dungeons, and the game feels alive in the overworld. 3D Zelda prior to Breath of the Wild made the overworld feel like an obstacle course between dungeons - and, I know people won't agree with me here, but I think dungeons suck for the most part. The games where they're actually fun are few and far between: Breath of the Wild is one, Chrono Trigger is another, Link to the Past is another, and I struggle to think of others where I actually think "This dungeon is fun!"

I mean, if we're bringing out the full rankings...

1. Breath of the Wild
2. Twilight Princess
3. Ocarina of Time
4. A Link Between Worlds
5. Majora's Mask 3D

6. Wind Waker
7. Minish Cap
8. A Link to the Past
9. Oracle of Seasons
10. Link's Awakening

11. Legend of Zelda
12. Skyward Sword
13. Oracle of Ages
14. Phantom Hourglass
15. Spirit Tracks

I listed only the ones I've played. Going off the originals except for Majora for which I've only played the remake.



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I chose TP only because I remember how hyped I was for that game back then when there were only a couple videos out showing the game. Then it came out and I loved it, was amazed at the graphics back then. But to be honest, I think Skyward Sword is a masterpiece, a real reliq and a game that fully used everything the Wii had to offer. It's hard to choose one.



Leynos said:
TP is a decent game even tho it was a fanservice response to "Celda"

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, listening to your fans and giving them what they want. 



curl-6 said:
Leynos said:
TP is a decent game even tho it was a fanservice response to "Celda"

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, listening to your fans and giving them what they want. 

And yet WW is the far superior game. TP wasn't even the best Zelda game the year it released. Okami was. TP is a decent game just wasn't a great game.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Leynos said:
curl-6 said:

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, listening to your fans and giving them what they want. 

And yet WW is the far superior game. TP wasn't even the best Zelda game the year it released. Okami was. TP is a decent game just wasn't a great game.

See I would completely disagree, I think TP is a vast improvement over Wind Waker, in part due to actually looking like Zelda again, but also just better dungeons, less tedious traversal.



Leynos said:
curl-6 said:

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, listening to your fans and giving them what they want. 

And yet WW is the far superior game. TP wasn't even the best Zelda game the year it released. Okami was. TP is a decent game just wasn't a great game.

A lot of the gaming media at the time said that (and admittedly a lot of people) agree but often people that make the claim that Okami is better than Zelda have only played one or even neither game. I also have to add that TP managed to still win its share of GotY awards even though the PS3 had just launched and the Xbox 360 was hitting its stride.

Okami (I didn't play it until the Wii port and never finished it) hasn't really made the lasting impression that it probably should have. Even on the Switch, I personally have no desire to give it a second chance but I'm salivating at the idea of a potential port of Twilight Princess and/or Wind Waker. I think "Okami is better than Zelda" was just the hot take of the day back then.