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Forums - Sports Discussion - The NFL Thread 2019: The Kansas City Chiefs Win Super Bowl LIV

 

Who do you believe will have a stronger defense in 2020?

Patriots 2 66.67%
 
Steelers 1 33.33%
 
Total:3

I don't care who's returning week 9/10, Patriots just need to bite the bullet and call Antonio Brown. I can't survive another game watching Brady throw to Izzo, Meyers and Gunner Olszewski (no offense to them, they're solid).



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Shaunodon said:
I don't care who's returning week 9/10, Patriots just need to bite the bullet and call Antonio Brown. I can't survive another game watching Brady throw to Izzo, Meyers and Gunner Olszewski (no offense to them, they're solid).

No way. I can leave or take his shenanigans in terms of picking stupid fights with his past teammates and whining at the NFL, but threatening someone who's alleged sexual assault charges against you is a whole different story. Add in the recent lawsuits from a condo and his behavior in the courtroom and...no, I don't want him on the team.

We've still got two more essentially warm up games until Baltimore. We've put up 30 points on everyone but Buffalo, probably the best defense in the league that isn't us. Offense isn't fully clicking but we've got a lot of younger players in there. We'll be fine.



Honestly, the Patriots offense might be almost as bad as their defense is great. Even with these garbage teams that they're playing (must be nice being Super Bowl champs and getting the easiest schedule in the league), and the defense constantly giving them every advantage they can ask for, that offense can't get much going for like 3 quarters at a time.



Angelus said:
Honestly, the Patriots offense might be almost as bad as their defense is great. Even with these garbage teams that they're playing (must be nice being Super Bowl champs and getting the easiest schedule in the league), and the defense constantly giving them every advantage they can ask for, that offense can't get much going for like 3 quarters at a time.

That's a reach and a half. We're talking about the Patriots offense having a few issues, we didn't say they were the Chicago Bears.



Shaunodon said:
Angelus said:
Honestly, the Patriots offense might be almost as bad as their defense is great. Even with these garbage teams that they're playing (must be nice being Super Bowl champs and getting the easiest schedule in the league), and the defense constantly giving them every advantage they can ask for, that offense can't get much going for like 3 quarters at a time.

That's a reach and a half. We're talking about the Patriots offense having a few issues, we didn't say they were the Chicago Bears.

The Patriots offense has massive issues. Especially on the line, which is a revolving door at this point. We're talking about a unit that's constantly given the ball in great positions by their defense, and yet can still barely manage to actually go score, even facing the worst teams in the league. How much offense are the Patriots actually generating as a result of their own good play, vs just being gifted points by the opposition? Not a whole lot as far as I can tell. Sure enough, with Tom Brady's savvy play, good coaching adjustments, and the oppositions' mostly terrible defenses eventually wearing down you guys end up with numbers that look respectable on paper….but if we're being real, your offense is a hot mess. 

I guess saying it's almost as bad as your defense is great was a bit hyperbolic, but it sure as hell isn't very good. 



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The Patriots offense in not nearly as bad as most people think it is. They put up 427 offensive yards against the Giants today and for the season they average 298.2 passing yard per game which is 5th overall and 101.5 rushing yards per game which is 21st and 399.7 total offensive yards per game which is 10th overall. Those offensive numbers are more then good enough since they currently also have the number one pass defense and third best rush defense and number one defense overall.



Chris Hu said:
The Patriots offense in not nearly as bad as most people think it is. They put up 427 offensive yards against the Giants today and for the season they average 298.2 passing yard per game which is 5th overall and 101.5 rushing yards per game which is 21st and 399.7 total offensive yards per game which is 10th overall. Those offensive numbers are more then good enough since they currently also have the number one pass defense and third best rush defense and number one defense overall.

Worth noting that they've spent the last couple years trying to make their offense balanced and versatile for the playoffs (see:playoff stats from last postseason), meanwhile they spent most of the second half against the Giants running an empty backfield with 2 undrafted rookie WRs; a 7th round sophmore TE; and Edelman to throw to. And their O-line (also riddled by injury) has made every defense they play look like the Steel Curtain.

Doesn't take a genius to figure this won't be the offense we see in December. (Edit: this should also take into account that Brady might not survive to December at this rate.)



Chris Hu said:
The Patriots offense in not nearly as bad as most people think it is. They put up 427 offensive yards against the Giants today and for the season they average 298.2 passing yard per game which is 5th overall and 101.5 rushing yards per game which is 21st and 399.7 total offensive yards per game which is 10th overall. Those offensive numbers are more then good enough since they currently also have the number one pass defense and third best rush defense and number one defense overall.

Yep, that is my stance as well.  The only real issue is the Pats need to get a bit better at finishing drives.  I also think the Pats received a horrible spot on that 4 and 1.



Shaunodon said:
Chris Hu said:
The Patriots offense in not nearly as bad as most people think it is. They put up 427 offensive yards against the Giants today and for the season they average 298.2 passing yard per game which is 5th overall and 101.5 rushing yards per game which is 21st and 399.7 total offensive yards per game which is 10th overall. Those offensive numbers are more then good enough since they currently also have the number one pass defense and third best rush defense and number one defense overall.

Worth noting that they've spent the last couple years trying to make their offense balanced and versatile for the playoffs (see:playoff stats from last postseason), meanwhile they spent most of the second half against the Giants running an empty backfield with 2 undrafted rookie WRs; a 7th round sophmore TE; and Edelman to throw to. And their O-line (also riddled by injury) has made every defense they play look like the Steel Curtain.

Doesn't take a genius to figure this won't be the offense we see in December. (Edit: this should also take into account that Brady might not survive to December at this rate.)

The offensive line isn't as bad as most people think either.  Brady will be fine its not like he is getting sacked as much as Deshaun Watson, Kyler Murray, Andy Dalton or Marcus Mariota.  If Watson had a decent offensive line and more then one good receiver he would be putting up better numbers then Mahomes.



Chris Hu said:
Shaunodon said:

Worth noting that they've spent the last couple years trying to make their offense balanced and versatile for the playoffs (see:playoff stats from last postseason), meanwhile they spent most of the second half against the Giants running an empty backfield with 2 undrafted rookie WRs; a 7th round sophmore TE; and Edelman to throw to. And their O-line (also riddled by injury) has made every defense they play look like the Steel Curtain.

Doesn't take a genius to figure this won't be the offense we see in December. (Edit: this should also take into account that Brady might not survive to December at this rate.)

The offensive line isn't as bad as most people think either.  Brady will be fine its not like he is getting sacked as much as Deshaun Watson, Kyler Murray, Andy Dalton or Marcus Mariota.  If Watson had a decent offensive line and more then one good receiver he would be putting up better numbers then Mahomes.

Don't let Mahome's disciples hear that or you'll be burnt at the stake.

If last game was any indication, it could be a breakout year for Will Fuller and the o-line is starting to really play for Watson. He does hold it for a longer-than-ordinary time though which he'll need to improve, but he's definitely a personal favourite among the emerging young QBs (loved his postgame analysis of the previous 2 defenses he played).

Patriots o-line did hold up slightly better against the Giants as the game went on, but against Washington they were getting consistent 3-man rush pressure all game, and against the Bills who have a legit defense, Brady had to throw roughly a dozen balls away immediately after either turning or completing his dropbacks. He was in pure survival mode for that entire game.
Brady has always made his o-line look better than it is, but the loss of the recent crucial pieces combined with a lack or any receivers getting themself open quickly (or at all), means he can't get rid of the ball quickly as he'd like, and taking more hits than you'd want to see a 42yr old taking (don't think avocado ice-cream turns your bones into steel unfortunately).
Also doesn't help that the few times they've put Stidham in to carry out the 4th QTR, he's looked God awful. So they can't trust him to close out many games, and they had to waste a roster spot on a third QB because of it, rather than keep Ben Watson. Just another issue on the Patriots offense.