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Eurogamer: PS5 and Xbox Series X Spec Leak.

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Eurogamer: PS5 and Xbox Series X Spec Leak.

setsunatenshi said:
JRPGfan said:

#1
4,2 vs 6 Tflops = 30% differnce.
9,2 vs 13 Tflops = 28% differnce.

Its the same in terms of power.


#2
However with diminishing returns, and consoles at 6Tflops almost being able to run most things at 4k anyways, I think the differnces will be minor.
It matters more at lower resolutions. You can easily spot the differnce between a 720p image, and a 1080p.  Its alot harder with 1440p/1800p vs 4k (2160). Power matters less and less, in terms of sharpness, with increase of resolutions. You wont have 1 be blurry, while the other is sharp, the differnces wont be that big.

#3
"variable refresh rate only matters if your display is able to support it, i'm pretty sure my tv isn't, same for 99% of the people out there."
True... this will be the "next" big thing to get as a console gamer, a TV that has variablel refresh rates. So you avoid screen tearing, and have less noticeable lag, while playing.

1- you are disregarding IPC improvements in the newest RDNA tech vs an extremely old architecture used in the ps4 generation (by today's standards). that by itself blows past the 30% actual difference between the 2 rumored specs. this is why people keep saying "flops" is not a good measure of power comparison

2- ray tracing will be a performance killer, you can look at current pc benchmarks to see that. the difference will be much more noticeable than the pixel count of current gen, which i agree, i don't particularly mind the 1440 upscale vs 4k done in the 2 consoles

3- yep, exactly

Yes..... per flop, performance of both systems will favor the newer ones.

But look at the Xbox One X (this gen), it ran alot of games at 4k.
Surely the PS5 will be able to do so as well.  This was my point, which you probably missed.

Yes Ray Tracing will be a performance killer.... you know what will happend? Both systems will run same resolutions / fps, but the Xbox Series X will just have more Ray Tracing beams ect.  Wont be the end of the world, esp if their useing it the same way they did this gen on PC.  It tanks performance for very little improved graphics quality (imo).

Ray Traceing is super demanding, and gives little to most games, in terms of improved image quality.
^ thats deminishing returns, you need to throw a ton of compute at it, for little gains.

I could imagine that next gen, that will be the arguement from teh xbox side.
"Ours have better ray traceing! playstations suck, you barely notice their ray traceing."



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LudicrousSpeed said:
HollyGamer said:

True, not all hardcore gamer are PC only, but most of them are on PC. Because best graphic can only be achieved on powerful PC that is irrefutable fact.  And not all hardcore gamers build  1500 USD , instead they buy GPU that cost 500 USD on par with 600 USD Xbox X and just upgrade their normal  PC instead building a new one. I don't see any reason to not upgrading your PC, but a loyal Xbox fans will probably buy Xbox X instead PC or go with Xbox and  PC 

30% will not be noticeable especially when most of xbox games are made using directX api that is good at scaling on many platform (consoles, many variant of PC on the market, future hardware compatibility)  but bad at optimizing on single devices. It's the opposite with Playstation API with their GNM and GNMX which is bad for porting games, bad at future hardware compatibility but good on optimizing one single device. 

Also there are more factors then just Teraflop number. like memory bandwidth, GPU speed etc etc. Even some expert said many game developer choose small CU count but higher clock instead bigger CU count but less cloaked frequency. PS5 are rumored to have 2 Ghz with small CU that will benefit on pixel rates and geometry shaders. On top of that  both are using the same memory bandwidth speed (Flute benchmark indicate PS5 will be using 18 Gbs of GDDR6 instead on the numer on the OP) . While Xbox will be using 56 CU with 1700 Mhz speed to achieve 12 teraflop with memory at 18 Gbs as well. This means it will be even far smaller then 30% in reality. This is very different scenario then PS4 and Xbox One comparison,  where the hardware is even bottleneck on  memory bandwidth. 

I think only very small people that can only tell the difference and you is one of them , also lets be honest here without going to Digital foundry nobody able to pint point the difference , especially when Digital foundry  pause the games, zoom in and out and bring the pic close together to compare it. Nobody really care that much. Probably only hundred thousand people like you who will care to see Digital Foundry to see the difference and  buy Xbox X many will just buy new GPU. And all of the person who go to Digital foundry are niche gamer and super hardcore.

Let's look on this gen on how a powerful Xbox One X is, It still unable to  changed their sales number. Content, price, brand is the most important thing,  power also important but on certain degree. 

You must have missed the start of this gen. All this forum consisted of was links to DF videos showing slowed down zoomed in or paused videos of Xbone vs PS4 titles and all we heard about from users here was how massive the difference was and how easy it was to see and how important a factor it was.

Microsoft has already fixed their content problem. Their brand has also been recovering ever since Papa Phil took over. We'll see on price.

Yes, peoples went to Digital Foundry, but not all peoples who bought PS4 because Digital Foundry videos. Only super small percentage of people like us who cares. And people like us is super niche and small. Just look how Microsoft made a deal with Digital Foundry on unveiling Xbox One X in 2017. DIgital foundry were their representative , but nothing change .  



I think Microsoft will be very aggressive with pricing here. They know they screwed up at the start of this generation and PS4 took advantage. MS has a lot more money in the bank than Sony does as well, so I'm going to predict they sell it for a loss ($400) and make up for it with other profits. Heck, with Xbox gold, they could sell for $350 and be fine as long as people buy probably at least 3 games.
Ps5 may be the same price, but Microsoft will advertise itself as more power for the same buck. Sony probably won't be willing to lower their price as much, just a guess.



LudicrousSpeed said:

Microsoft has already fixed their content problem.

Let’s wait until their newly acquired studios release some content before claiming their content problem has been successfully fixed.

Last edited by Hynad - on 31 December 2019

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56 CUs in the Series X would be insane, even more so than pushing AMD GPUs to 2000 MHz. 400mm2+ on 7 nm ain't going to be cheap chief. But the leaks from Taiwan seemed to point out a ~350 mm2 APU for the Series X (broadly consistent with the mock-up images Microsoft divulged) versus a 300 mm2 APU for the PS5. That to me indicates room for no more than 48 CUs, so who knows if that's indeed the case. By the way, if RT isn't included in the PS5's APU, it doesn't mean there isn't a custom chip dedicated to it. Cerny confirmed there will be a hardware solution, so I wouldn't be concerned about this particular point.

Also, the people expecting massive subsidies from either company need to remember the very reason they are massive companies is because of how tech specially is priced on the market. Try to be the senior vice president proposing shareholders you are going to take a $2 billion loss to perhaps take the lead on one of your smaller enterprises, relatively speaking. Specially considering most of your money comes from an online service that has nothing to do with hardware and opening youself to be sniped by a pro version of your competition's console in two years or so.

Last edited by haxxiy - on 31 December 2019

 

 

 

 

 

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setsunatenshi said:
HollyGamer said:

Both console will be aiming the same performance by tweaking the visual effect. we have seen a lot example with PS4 and Xbox One where Xbox has lower resolution or lower graphic effect ten PS4. We might see PS5 1900p while Xbox X run at native 4K. 

Me might see frame rates difference , but not as big with PS4/Xbox One different  . Also both will be using Variable refresh rate on HDMI 2.1 , so 10 to 20 frame rates difference will be hard to notice using Variable refresh rates.

Both consoles will be underperformed when using Ray tracing , so we will see a hybrid and more efficient technique  combination of Screen Space and texture based ray tracing.  

with a much bigger power difference than the one between ps4/xb1, how can you say it won't be as big as then? if anything it will be much, much bigger

and variable refresh rate only matters if your display is able to support it, i'm pretty sure my tv isn't, same for 99% of the people out there. you are making a lot of assumptions without anything to really back them up. history tells that graphics get pushed ahead of frame rate the majority of times, the idea would be to have powerful enough hardware not to have to compromise either vs the competitor.

actually the gap between 9.2 to 12 teraflop are around 28 to 30 % less then PS4 pro to Xbox One X 42%

Trust me we will not see the same thing with PS5 and Xbox 12 because both will be using the same CPU that rid all of the bottle neck and developer have many technique like VRS (variable rate shading)  CRB , etc etc that will be available on both consoles. also having a faster GPU clock at 2 Ghz and the same bandwith  already have benefit for both  design and will ended  very close.

PS5 has a great  spec while Xbox X has slightly better sepc then PS5, unlike PS4 with great design and Xbox One is bad design choice. 



HollyGamer said:
setsunatenshi said:

with a much bigger power difference than the one between ps4/xb1, how can you say it won't be as big as then? if anything it will be much, much bigger

and variable refresh rate only matters if your display is able to support it, i'm pretty sure my tv isn't, same for 99% of the people out there. you are making a lot of assumptions without anything to really back them up. history tells that graphics get pushed ahead of frame rate the majority of times, the idea would be to have powerful enough hardware not to have to compromise either vs the competitor.

actually the gap between 9.2 to 12 teraflop are around 28 to 30 % less then PS4 pro to Xbox One X 42%

Trust me we will not see the same thing with PS5 and Xbox 12 because both will be using the same CPU that rid all of the bottle neck and developer have many technique like VRS (variable rate shading)  CRB , etc etc that will be available on both consoles. also having a faster GPU clock at 2 Ghz and the same bandwith  already have benefit for both  design and will ended  very close.

PS5 has a great  spec while Xbox X has slightly better sepc then PS5, unlike PS4 with great design and Xbox One is bad design choice. 

Seriously, quit the biased spins.

If those specs are legitimate, the gap is quite a big one and you’d be a fool to think that the difference won’t be perceptible. 

This is basically a 3TF gap between both consoles. Based on the entire gaming history, such a difference has always been noticeable. There’s no reason to think that things will magically (or “secret-saucically”) be different this time around.

Every gen is the same, with people like you always making the same kind of comments, and they’re always wrong.

We will see a difference if those specs are true. There’s no way around this.



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JRPGfan said:
setsunatenshi said:

1- you are disregarding IPC improvements in the newest RDNA tech vs an extremely old architecture used in the ps4 generation (by today's standards). that by itself blows past the 30% actual difference between the 2 rumored specs. this is why people keep saying "flops" is not a good measure of power comparison

2- ray tracing will be a performance killer, you can look at current pc benchmarks to see that. the difference will be much more noticeable than the pixel count of current gen, which i agree, i don't particularly mind the 1440 upscale vs 4k done in the 2 consoles

3- yep, exactly

Yes..... per flop, performance of both systems will favor the newer ones.

But look at the Xbox One X (this gen), it ran alot of games at 4k.
Surely the PS5 will be able to do so as well.  This was my point, which you probably missed.

Yes Ray Tracing will be a performance killer.... you know what will happend? Both systems will run same resolutions / fps, but the Xbox Series X will just have more Ray Tracing beams ect.  Wont be the end of the world, esp if their useing it the same way they did this gen on PC.  It tanks performance for very little improved graphics quality (imo).

Ray Traceing is super demanding, and gives little to most games, in terms of improved image quality.
^ thats deminishing returns, you need to throw a ton of compute at it, for little gains.

I could imagine that next gen, that will be the arguement from teh xbox side.
"Ours have better ray traceing! playstations suck, you barely notice their ray traceing."

i'm still not taking these specs for granted, but regardless, ray tracing, if well used, is a lot more noticeable than a bump in pixel count. not only visual ray tracing, but ray traced audio as well. if the hardware is beefy enough it should also lower development times. developers won't have to make the same smoke & mirror tricks to light a scene, but instead placing realistic lighting to see how it affects the entire scenario.

the key here is using the new gen to push ray tracing as the norm, and i would be very disappointed to not take this jump.

fortunately Cerny confirmed there will be hardware ray  tracing capabilities, so i'm not too worried.

btw on your comment of "having more ray tracing", i'm not sure that's a thing. it's an on / off switch when implemented (someone correct me if i'm wrong)



HollyGamer said:
setsunatenshi said:

with a much bigger power difference than the one between ps4/xb1, how can you say it won't be as big as then? if anything it will be much, much bigger

and variable refresh rate only matters if your display is able to support it, i'm pretty sure my tv isn't, same for 99% of the people out there. you are making a lot of assumptions without anything to really back them up. history tells that graphics get pushed ahead of frame rate the majority of times, the idea would be to have powerful enough hardware not to have to compromise either vs the competitor.

actually the gap between 9.2 to 12 teraflop are around 28 to 30 % less then PS4 pro to Xbox One X 42%

Trust me we will not see the same thing with PS5 and Xbox 12 because both will be using the same CPU that rid all of the bottle neck and developer have many technique like VRS (variable rate shading)  CRB , etc etc that will be available on both consoles. also having a faster GPU clock at 2 Ghz and the same bandwith  already have benefit for both  design and will ended  very close.

PS5 has a great  spec while Xbox X has slightly better sepc then PS5, unlike PS4 with great design and Xbox One is bad design choice. 

i wasn't talking about the x1x vs pro, i was talking about the original consoles.

regardless, there's a world of a difference between the x1x and the pro graphically.

as i mentioned in a separate comment, the IPC gains in RDNA only make this difference even bigger, you can't compare "flops" vs the previous generation and think it means something



Quite a significant difference tbh MS coming from a gen where they hammered may even decide to sell at a significant loss to be competitive.