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Machiavellian said:
Immersiveunreality said:

Isn't Crowder his platform open for any opposing discussion towards him?

He is good in outspeaking people but that does not make his platform a safe space,he could have a segment being a safe space but not his whole platform.

Edit: He even throws himself into the public to have debates with random people.

To be honest, I have no clue who Crowder is but instead I am just watching the videos being posted by EricHiggins.  In none of those videos was Ben actually challenged on his behavior instead it was like 2 buddies discussing the weather.  I have no clue what relationship either has with each other but that video certainly didn't sell me that this was a neutral environment.  A safe place is somewhere you know the format, the person and how to move and act without being challenge.  Would you say after watching that video that Ben wasn't as comfortable talking to Crowder then if he was talking to his best friend.

I would say it is very obvious to know Crowder his platform is not a safe space just by looking at the kind of content he creates,the segment EricHiggins showed is not a forced safespace and that aspect makes it questionable if it even is one, but it should have no clear negative meaning because the two of them are very open for confrontation if there is need of it by one of the debaters.

We do not know if the two were restricted in speech for that discussion/chat or had agreements beforehand to ensure themselves to not being exposed to criticism so how can we confirm it was a safe space?A chat with a friend is still not a safespace because that friend has the freedom ask opposing question's,there is no clear aversion to criticism but just a talk.

Also, safespace's only become negative/existent when most or all of the feedback/critics get blocked from a whole platform.



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Immersiveunreality said:
Machiavellian said:

To be honest, I have no clue who Crowder is but instead I am just watching the videos being posted by EricHiggins.  In none of those videos was Ben actually challenged on his behavior instead it was like 2 buddies discussing the weather.  I have no clue what relationship either has with each other but that video certainly didn't sell me that this was a neutral environment.  A safe place is somewhere you know the format, the person and how to move and act without being challenge.  Would you say after watching that video that Ben wasn't as comfortable talking to Crowder then if he was talking to his best friend.

I would say it is very obvious to know Crowder his platform is not a safe space just by looking at the kind of content he creates,the segment EricHiggins showed is not a forced safespace and that aspect makes it questionable if it even is one, but it should have no clear negative meaning because the two of them are very open for confrontation if there is need of it by one of the debaters.

We do not know if the two were restricted in speech for that discussion/chat or had agreements beforehand to ensure themselves to not being exposed to criticism so how can we confirm it was a safe space?A chat with a friend is still not a safespace because that friend has the freedom ask opposing question's,there is no clear aversion to criticism but just a talk.

Also, safespace's only become negative/existent when most or all of the feedback/critics get blocked from a whole platform.

As I stated, I have no clue who Crowder is or even the content he produces, I can only go by the videos posted and from that video, yes, it was a safe place.  Just so I am not being bias in my opinion, I did look through a bunch of videos between the the 2 and nothing I saw would change my opinion.  Watching the video below of Crowder and Ben's best Moments, I would definitely say they are friends and Ben knew exactly what to expect when he interviewed on Crowder's show.  He understood that Crowder would be his champion and that's exactly what he got.  It doesn't need to be negative or hostile or anything of that sort but what it definitely was is supportive which is what Ben needed and was provided.  That is what you call a safe place where you know the person will tell you what you wanted to hear.



Machiavellian said:
Immersiveunreality said:

I would say it is very obvious to know Crowder his platform is not a safe space just by looking at the kind of content he creates,the segment EricHiggins showed is not a forced safespace and that aspect makes it questionable if it even is one, but it should have no clear negative meaning because the two of them are very open for confrontation if there is need of it by one of the debaters.

We do not know if the two were restricted in speech for that discussion/chat or had agreements beforehand to ensure themselves to not being exposed to criticism so how can we confirm it was a safe space?A chat with a friend is still not a safespace because that friend has the freedom ask opposing question's,there is no clear aversion to criticism but just a talk.

Also, safespace's only become negative/existent when most or all of the feedback/critics get blocked from a whole platform.

As I stated, I have no clue who Crowder is or even the content he produces, I can only go by the videos posted and from that video, yes, it was a safe place.  Just so I am not being bias in my opinion, I did look through a bunch of videos between the the 2 and nothing I saw would change my opinion.  Watching the video below of Crowder and Ben's best Moments, I would definitely say they are friends and Ben knew exactly what to expect when he interviewed on Crowder's show.  He understood that Crowder would be his champion and that's exactly what he got.  It doesn't need to be negative or hostile or anything of that sort but what it definitely was is supportive which is what Ben needed and was provided.  That is what you call a safe place where you know the person will tell you what you wanted to hear.

.....https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/safe%20space

.........Conflict is the only one you really need to focus on even though other's are applicable. Like one person being annoyed due to the uncomfortable

.........incompatibility of the other person not wearing pants in close quarters during the show. Yet Ben deals with it and goes on Crowder's show after

.........the fact, knowing the uncomfortable possibilities that may occur. If you want to say he traded his potential physical discomfort for potential verbal

.........comfort, then ok, but that still doesn't make it a safe space, because he's going into something he knows could very well be a conflict for him.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 06 June 2019

EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

As I stated, I have no clue who Crowder is or even the content he produces, I can only go by the videos posted and from that video, yes, it was a safe place.  Just so I am not being bias in my opinion, I did look through a bunch of videos between the the 2 and nothing I saw would change my opinion.  Watching the video below of Crowder and Ben's best Moments, I would definitely say they are friends and Ben knew exactly what to expect when he interviewed on Crowder's show.  He understood that Crowder would be his champion and that's exactly what he got.  It doesn't need to be negative or hostile or anything of that sort but what it definitely was is supportive which is what Ben needed and was provided.  That is what you call a safe place where you know the person will tell you what you wanted to hear.

.....https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/safe%20space

.........Conflict is the only one you really need to focus on even though other's are applicable. Like one person being annoyed due to the uncomfortable

.........incompatibility of the other person not wearing pants in close quarters during the show. Yet Ben deals with it and goes on Crowder's show after

.........the fact, knowing the uncomfortable possibilities that may occur. If you want to say he traded his potential physical discomfort for potential verbal

.........comfort, then ok, but that still doesn't make it a safe space, because he's going into something he knows could very well be a conflict for him.

Not sure why the video I linked to did not show up but I have watched a number of videos with Ben and Crowder and I am finding it very hard to see any interaction between the 2 that doesn't suggest they are friends.  The thing with a friend is that you know them.  You know the subjects you agree on and you know the ones you do not.  The first moments in the video you posted, Ben is smiling and laughing as if he was talking to his best friend.  Nowhere in that video was there any hint that it could go sideways and after less than 30 seconds you could tell it was a buddy movie.  Nothing I have seen proves that Ben did not run to his buddy for consolation and no video you have posted disprove that point.  We can discuss this ad nauseam but neither you nor I will change our opinion so if you want the last word you can have it but I am done.



Machiavellian said:
Immersiveunreality said:

I would say it is very obvious to know Crowder his platform is not a safe space just by looking at the kind of content he creates,the segment EricHiggins showed is not a forced safespace and that aspect makes it questionable if it even is one, but it should have no clear negative meaning because the two of them are very open for confrontation if there is need of it by one of the debaters.

We do not know if the two were restricted in speech for that discussion/chat or had agreements beforehand to ensure themselves to not being exposed to criticism so how can we confirm it was a safe space?A chat with a friend is still not a safespace because that friend has the freedom ask opposing question's,there is no clear aversion to criticism but just a talk.

Also, safespace's only become negative/existent when most or all of the feedback/critics get blocked from a whole platform.

As I stated, I have no clue who Crowder is or even the content he produces, I can only go by the videos posted and from that video, yes, it was a safe place.  Just so I am not being bias in my opinion, I did look through a bunch of videos between the the 2 and nothing I saw would change my opinion.  Watching the video below of Crowder and Ben's best Moments, I would definitely say they are friends and Ben knew exactly what to expect when he interviewed on Crowder's show.  He understood that Crowder would be his champion and that's exactly what he got.  It doesn't need to be negative or hostile or anything of that sort but what it definitely was is supportive which is what Ben needed and was provided.  That is what you call a safe place where you know the person will tell you what you wanted to hear.

Firstly you have to make the assumption that he did know for certain he could not get any negative feedback from his debater to consider the thought of calling  that one video a safe space.

This is a fairly friendly discussion and you might want to call it soft but for it to be a safe space it is too much of a rarity compared to all of the other videos where this one can be found amongst,if you need to assume the possible"fiction" that he was sure it he would get a friendly debate then it is much more logical to assume otherwise considering the other content on the channel.

You cannot call one video of someone a safe space without knowing the people behind it,well yeah you surely can do that but i would disagree ;)



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Immersiveunreality said:
Machiavellian said:

As I stated, I have no clue who Crowder is or even the content he produces, I can only go by the videos posted and from that video, yes, it was a safe place.  Just so I am not being bias in my opinion, I did look through a bunch of videos between the the 2 and nothing I saw would change my opinion.  Watching the video below of Crowder and Ben's best Moments, I would definitely say they are friends and Ben knew exactly what to expect when he interviewed on Crowder's show.  He understood that Crowder would be his champion and that's exactly what he got.  It doesn't need to be negative or hostile or anything of that sort but what it definitely was is supportive which is what Ben needed and was provided.  That is what you call a safe place where you know the person will tell you what you wanted to hear.

Firstly you have to make the assumption that he did know for certain he could not get any negative feedback from his debater to consider the thought of calling  that one video a safe space.

This is a fairly friendly discussion and you might want to call it soft but for it to be a safe space it is too much of a rarity compared to all of the other videos where this one can be found amongst,if you need to assume the possible"fiction" that he was sure it he would get a friendly debate then it is much more logical to assume otherwise considering the other content on the channel.

You cannot call one video of someone a safe space without knowing the people behind it,well yeah you surely can do that but i would disagree ;)

I continue to hear that Crowder isn't a safe place for Ben but I have found no evidence of that.  I have even asked if someone could provide any evidence to this that points to that interview ever going south, so far I found none and none has been provided.

If you can show me any video that shows that they are not friends then I can agree with you.  Without knowing the 2 and watching a number of videos between them, nothing there state that Ben isn't very comfortable being interviewed by Crowder to the order of actually the 2 being close friends.  Just because they may disagree with a few items doesn't mean that Crowder show isn't a comfortable place where he is very sure about what will go down. I have watched Ben on a few other interviews and you can definitely see a totally different person who has their defenses up and ready to battle.  No where is that shone in that interview or any other interview between the 2, if anything its totally opposite.  Either way, neither of us is going to see this any different.  



Machiavellian said:
Immersiveunreality said:

Firstly you have to make the assumption that he did know for certain he could not get any negative feedback from his debater to consider the thought of calling  that one video a safe space.

This is a fairly friendly discussion and you might want to call it soft but for it to be a safe space it is too much of a rarity compared to all of the other videos where this one can be found amongst,if you need to assume the possible"fiction" that he was sure it he would get a friendly debate then it is much more logical to assume otherwise considering the other content on the channel.

You cannot call one video of someone a safe space without knowing the people behind it,well yeah you surely can do that but i would disagree ;)

I continue to hear that Crowder isn't a safe place for Ben but I have found no evidence of that.  I have even asked if someone could provide any evidence to this that points to that interview ever going south, so far I found none and none has been provided.

If you can show me any video that shows that they are not friends then I can agree with you.  Without knowing the 2 and watching a number of videos between them, nothing there state that Ben isn't very comfortable being interviewed by Crowder to the order of actually the 2 being close friends.  Just because they may disagree with a few items doesn't mean that Crowder show isn't a comfortable place where he is very sure about what will go down. I have watched Ben on a few other interviews and you can definitely see a totally different person who has their defenses up and ready to battle.  No where is that shone in that interview or any other interview between the 2, if anything its totally opposite.  Either way, neither of us is going to see this any different.  

Evidence works both ways,you also need to provide it before you ask for it.

You seem to have a different understanding of what a safe space is,in my opinion you use it as an extreme for a mild situation because a talk between friends or a friendly talk that does not ever go south does not equal what people understand a safe place to be.

Because they both do not have criticism to eachother does not mean they have an aversion to criticism or deliberatly block it from the conversation if it came up,not all more positive videos have to be called "safe space's"and if you have a talk with a friend you are likely open to speak your mind whenever something bugs you about him,if that does not happen it does not mean that a safe space was created because no it was just a normal conversation.

No neither of us is gonna see it different and maybe im too soft on this or maybe you too hard,all in all it is not that important.



A new low for 45?

https://youtu.be/GC1Z80ACan4

And Fox News?

https://youtu.be/JwRSxQlrLKE



Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

.....https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/safe%20space

.........Conflict is the only one you really need to focus on even though other's are applicable. Like one person being annoyed due to the uncomfortable

.........incompatibility of the other person not wearing pants in close quarters during the show. Yet Ben deals with it and goes on Crowder's show after

.........the fact, knowing the uncomfortable possibilities that may occur. If you want to say he traded his potential physical discomfort for potential verbal

.........comfort, then ok, but that still doesn't make it a safe space, because he's going into something he knows could very well be a conflict for him.

Not sure why the video I linked to did not show up but I have watched a number of videos with Ben and Crowder and I am finding it very hard to see any interaction between the 2 that doesn't suggest they are friends.  The thing with a friend is that you know them.  You know the subjects you agree on and you know the ones you do not.  The first moments in the video you posted, Ben is smiling and laughing as if he was talking to his best friend.  Nowhere in that video was there any hint that it could go sideways and after less than 30 seconds you could tell it was a buddy movie.  Nothing I have seen proves that Ben did not run to his buddy for consolation and no video you have posted disprove that point.  We can discuss this ad nauseam but neither you nor I will change our opinion so if you want the last word you can have it but I am done.

Immersiveunreality said:
Machiavellian said:

I continue to hear that Crowder isn't a safe place for Ben but I have found no evidence of that.  I have even asked if someone could provide any evidence to this that points to that interview ever going south, so far I found none and none has been provided.

If you can show me any video that shows that they are not friends then I can agree with you.  Without knowing the 2 and watching a number of videos between them, nothing there state that Ben isn't very comfortable being interviewed by Crowder to the order of actually the 2 being close friends.  Just because they may disagree with a few items doesn't mean that Crowder show isn't a comfortable place where he is very sure about what will go down. I have watched Ben on a few other interviews and you can definitely see a totally different person who has their defenses up and ready to battle.  No where is that shone in that interview or any other interview between the 2, if anything its totally opposite.  Either way, neither of us is going to see this any different.  

Evidence works both ways,you also need to provide it before you ask for it.

You seem to have a different understanding of what a safe space is,in my opinion you use it as an extreme for a mild situation because a talk between friends or a friendly talk that does not ever go south does not equal what people understand a safe place to be.

Because they both do not have criticism to eachother does not mean they have an aversion to criticism or deliberatly block it from the conversation if it came up,not all more positive videos have to be called "safe space's"and if you have a talk with a friend you are likely open to speak your mind whenever something bugs you about him,if that does not happen it does not mean that a safe space was created because no it was just a normal conversation.

No neither of us is gonna see it different and maybe im too soft on this or maybe you too hard,all in all it is not that important.

The video shows up as a video in the reply editor but it doesn't show the video itself, just a play icon, so ya I dunno what's up with that.

Whether they are friends or not doesn't have a lot to do with it other than in one particular case. Sure, the likelihood of Shapiro being 'destroyed' by Crowder is less likely than someone Ben doesn't know personally and has no knowledge of, but that's no guarantee he's going into a safe space. Ben even assumed going into the 'book' interview that he was entering a safe space and got blindsided. Crowder himself being a comedian can be quite unpredictable and can go off the handle at times when he get's worked up, so he's not the type of go to guy when you need strong reassurance and a guaranteed image boost.

As for friends, I don't know about you, but I've had/have really good friends and acquaintances, for both short and long periods of time, who only had/have a few things in common with me, and sometimes have gone against me or totally thrown me under the bus, right down to stabbing me in the back. Some of those people are still around, but the one's like the back stabbers no longer are. Just because someone is your friend at the moment doesn't guarantee a safe space, especially when it comes to business and politics.

If Ben and Crowder were best friends since they were kids, life long buds, the type who would risk their life to save the other's, then in that specific case I would say the likelihood that Crowder would try and put Ben in a really tough spot would be so low that you would have a point, but they do not have that type of friendship. Visually getting along well does not equate a safe space.

The reason I also tied conservatives, and not just Ben and Crowder to your safe space remark, is because when it comes to cons vs libs, aside from the minority of over the top outspoken individuals on either side, the average con is much more likely to give you a hard time then a lib will. Libs are more worried about hurting your feelings or making you look bad in front of a group, and tend to be to easy on you until they reach the tipping point and then they get pissed and will grill you as hard as they can. A con typically believes they should straighten you out on the spot right now, in a fairly calm manner before they have to go over the top because they allowed things to get much worse, and they'll also use public shaming as a tactic to get you to do so if necessary. This usually works quite well for cons so they don't tend to need to hammer people very often. Crowder was giving Ben that fairly calm talk now so that a public grilling isn't necessary later. Now when it comes to cons dealing with libs and vice versa, that's usually a mess because they don't share the same disciplinary idea's and actions.

My own family and my friends, girlfriends, or acquaintances families were always like this. The lib fams always seemed nicer, until one day when they would lose it and be crazy, and the con fams were always straight forward and a little bit edgy, yet rarely did you see a freak out. This is why I don't really agree with trying to say conservative people use safe spaces, because they almost don't exist in that climate. Church would be one of the few exceptions, but even then it's the invisible dude in the sky that's comforting them, not so much the people attending.



TallSilhouette said:

A new low for 45?

https://youtu.be/GC1Z80ACan4

And Fox News?

https://youtu.be/JwRSxQlrLKE

Wait, that won't even cut it!

That's more like it!