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SpokenTruth said:

*sigh*.

In just 24 hours, the US President:

1). Canceled a trip to Denmark because the Prime Minister told Trump that Greenland was not for sale.

2). Used an anti-semetic Jews must be loyal to Israel dog whistle to appeal to his evangelical base.

3). Accepted the idea that he is anointed as the second coming of God and King of Israel.

4). Called himself "The Chosen One" to take on China in a trade war that he claimed isn't his.

5). Bowed down to his NRA overlords on background checks after saying we needed them last week.

Pretty shitty day, haha.

While this isn't the first time Trump has used the Dual-Loyalty trope, it is kind of hilarious(?) that he drops anti-Semetic tropes during his attempt to say how great he is for Jews. Like, c'mon....



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SpokenTruth said:
Quick thought.

If guns don't kill people, people do.....then guns don't protect people, people do.

Your move, NRA.

So if they make no difference either way, we can buy and sell guns like we buy and sell most other goods? Awesome!



the-pi-guy said:

Snoopy said:

1. It's United States fault? Fine, then tell Mexico to keep their people in their Country and pay more for security on the border. However, we all know it's because guns are banned in Mexico. If it isn't the United States, they will buy it off another Country.

2. Yes, and Detroit failed miserably during the 70's. They didn't stop any of the riots and forced productive people to leave the City. Kind of like what's happening in California (Democrat stronghold). Also, the other cities you mentioned aren't doing great either. San Francisco streets are being littered with human poop due to the homeless crisis.

3. Yes because people aren't getting enough money from social programs. Not to mention all the people who are educated like doctors will leave because if you are educated and have a nice career, why would you stay in Detroit lol.

1.   Mexico isn't sending their people to this country.  We spend a lot of money for the border.  

>guns are banned in Mexico

Factually incorrect.  They have restrictions on guns, but guns are not banned. 

2.  By the time that a Democrat became mayor of Detroit, Detroit had lost nearly 200,000 people from the collapse in their local economy.  

If the current state of Detroit is down to the local policies, then the most you can say is that Republicans caused the collapse, but Democrats were unable to fix it.  

And again, a big part of the reason for California's housing issue, is they literally aren't building enough houses.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_housing_shortage

Also those cities are doing well by the standards listed in your article about how Detroit isn't doing well.  So if that list is void, then so is your article you shared.  


Addition:

I will say it again. These are complicated issues.  Economy, crime, etc.  Specialists will spend upwards of a decade of their life studying each of these subjects.  And you think you've got it all figured out from cherry picked examples.  

Any comment that "Democrats are bad", "Any taxes are bad", "Any regulations are bad", do a disservice to yourself and the conversation.  Treating every tax or regulation as being identical is dishonest at best.  Thinking people are bad because they don't have the same political beliefs as you doesn't make for good discussion.  

1. It pretty much is banned, they are so strict with gun laws it is ridiculous. You will have to go through so many hoops just to obtain a gun legally to defend your family from corrupt people. However, it didn't work too well now, did it?

2. Again, every city sees growth and decline due to market shifts. However, Democrats had control of Detroit for 50 years and made it worse. I mean Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed to hell and it looks a lot better than Detroit despite Japan having a rough time economically. Our Democrats/Liberals have screwed up badly.

3. Those cities are doing well for a liberal city, but still not doing well overall I'm afraid. Sorry, that I expect a lot more from these cities, but liberals will settle for less. That is why they like participation trophies.

No, it isn't a complicated issue. When Trump and Republican congress lifted regulations on jobs and lower taxes, the unemployment rate went down and the economy is now doing pretty well. In fact, unemployment been at the lowest since I was born. Companies want to create jobs, but we put up way too many barriers.



SpokenTruth said:
Snoopy said:

When Trump and Republican congress lifted regulations on jobs and lower taxes, the unemployment rate went down

This again?  Ok, I'm going to show you something.  And you're either going to learn from it or ignore it (again).  If you ignore it again, you will be labeled as being willfully ignorant and your standing for debate will remain tarnished.

Trump, his tax cuts and deregulation didn't do anything different than the trend it was already going in.  The rate of descent is the same.  If his policies had a direct impact, the rate of decent would have increased. 

You are either being lied to and accepting it because it feeds your cognitive bias or you do know the facts and are intentionally lying out of cognitive dissonance.

KLAMarine said:

So if they make no difference either way, we can buy and sell guns like we buy and sell most other goods? Awesome!

Yep, awesome.  We can also ban them all and it;s all good.

"Yep, awesome.  We can also ban them all and it;s all good."

>But wouldn't that then strengthen the unregulated firearm black market?



SpokenTruth said:
KLAMarine said:

"Yep, awesome.  We can also ban them all and it;s all good."

>But wouldn't that then strengthen the unregulated firearm black market?

I'm starting to think you missed the point.  I'll start over.

The NRA loves to state the following rhetoric to the point it has become a mantra for many, "Guns don't kill people, people do."

The converse then must also be true, "Guns don't protect people, people do."

The end sum of each of these statements suggests the cause of death and protection against death is people and the gun is therefore irrelevant in either case.  

The point is that if you proclaim that people are the problem (not gun), then you must also claim people are the solution (not gun). It's basically a nullification of the NRA rhetoric.

The problem is that the strong don't need weapons, but the weak do. It's why weapons were invented in the first place. The weak can't naturally beat the strong, so they create something to help that will. What do you do when you're the strong person who's now the weak one because you're up against a gun? You get yourself a gun or make something even stronger. 

The only real way to completely fix this is to make everyone and everything 100% equal, which you can't do. Until then, weapons of any kind will be used and will be seen as a solution and a problem.



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EricHiggin said:
SpokenTruth said:

I'm starting to think you missed the point.  I'll start over.

The NRA loves to state the following rhetoric to the point it has become a mantra for many, "Guns don't kill people, people do."

The converse then must also be true, "Guns don't protect people, people do."

The end sum of each of these statements suggests the cause of death and protection against death is people and the gun is therefore irrelevant in either case.  

The point is that if you proclaim that people are the problem (not gun), then you must also claim people are the solution (not gun). It's basically a nullification of the NRA rhetoric.

The problem is that the strong don't need weapons, but the weak do. It's why weapons were invented in the first place. The weak can't naturally beat the strong, so they create something to help that will. What do you do when you're the strong person who's now the weak one because you're up against a gun? You get yourself a gun or make something even stronger. 

The only real way to completely fix this is to make everyone and everything 100% equal, which you can't do. Until then, weapons of any kind will be used and will be seen as a solution and a problem.

Sometimes a solution can be worse than the problem. I mean what kind of things have guns in civilian hands actually fixed?

You can actually draw a really great parallel here to the middle east. Remember when shipping lots and lots of guns to a fragile region did not solve anything and instead fucked up everything for everyone forever? Same can be seen in the US.

Notice how the effort currently is to de-arm everyone to fix the problem that was introduced by guns? The US hilariously gets really furious when it doesn't manage to de-arm other countries. But yeah, self reflection and noticing big fat irony is not a strong suit of the men in power.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

SpokenTruth said:
KLAMarine said:

"Yep, awesome.  We can also ban them all and it;s all good."

>But wouldn't that then strengthen the unregulated firearm black market?

I'm starting to think you missed the point.  I'll start over.

The NRA loves to state the following rhetoric to the point it has become a mantra for many, "Guns don't kill people, people do."

The converse then must also be true, "Guns don't protect people, people do."

The end sum of each of these statements suggests the cause of death and protection against death is people and the gun is therefore irrelevant in either case.  

The point is that if you proclaim that people are the problem (not gun), then you must also claim people are the solution (not gun). It's basically a nullification of the NRA rhetoric.

And I completely agree with you that both statements nullify each other: guns don't kill/protect people, people do. But then why pursue a ban? If I want a gun, don't get in my way! The gun is not a difference maker or in your words, "irrelevant in either case".

It's like pursuing a ban of plastic bags because insurance fraud exists. Why? Plastic bags are a non-factor, clearly.

In conclusion, an NRA member might actually agree with you that the statements cancel each other out. People are the problem, not guns.



EricHiggin said:
SpokenTruth said:

I'm starting to think you missed the point.  I'll start over.

The NRA loves to state the following rhetoric to the point it has become a mantra for many, "Guns don't kill people, people do."

The converse then must also be true, "Guns don't protect people, people do."

The end sum of each of these statements suggests the cause of death and protection against death is people and the gun is therefore irrelevant in either case.  

The point is that if you proclaim that people are the problem (not gun), then you must also claim people are the solution (not gun). It's basically a nullification of the NRA rhetoric.

The problem is that the strong don't need weapons, but the weak do. It's why weapons were invented in the first place. The weak can't naturally beat the strong, so they create something to help that will. What do you do when you're the strong person who's now the weak one because you're up against a gun? You get yourself a gun or make something even stronger. 

The only real way to completely fix this is to make everyone and everything 100% equal, which you can't do. Until then, weapons of any kind will be used and will be seen as a solution and a problem.

If you're weak, get strong.  Isn't that what conservatives like to tout anyways?



KLAMarine said:
SpokenTruth said:

I'm starting to think you missed the point.  I'll start over.

The NRA loves to state the following rhetoric to the point it has become a mantra for many, "Guns don't kill people, people do."

The converse then must also be true, "Guns don't protect people, people do."

The end sum of each of these statements suggests the cause of death and protection against death is people and the gun is therefore irrelevant in either case.  

The point is that if you proclaim that people are the problem (not gun), then you must also claim people are the solution (not gun). It's basically a nullification of the NRA rhetoric.

And I completely agree with you that both statements nullify each other: guns don't kill/protect people, people do. But then why pursue a ban? If I want a gun, don't get in my way! The gun is not a difference maker or in your words, "irrelevant in either case".

It's like pursuing a ban of plastic bags because insurance fraud exists. Why? Plastic bags are a non-factor, clearly.

In conclusion, an NRA member might actually agree with you that the statements cancel each other out. People are the problem, not guns.

If we go by this logic then why do we have any laws at all?



Paperboy_J said:
KLAMarine said:

And I completely agree with you that both statements nullify each other: guns don't kill/protect people, people do. But then why pursue a ban? If I want a gun, don't get in my way! The gun is not a difference maker or in your words, "irrelevant in either case".

It's like pursuing a ban of plastic bags because insurance fraud exists. Why? Plastic bags are a non-factor, clearly.

In conclusion, an NRA member might actually agree with you that the statements cancel each other out. People are the problem, not guns.

If we go by this logic then why do we have any laws at all?

Nailed it.

People are the problem for all issues when you really boil it down.

That being said, laws are designed to attempt to alleviate the issues that people have. They will never be perfect, but that doesn't mean the law just shouldn't exist.

Murder will always be a thing, but we should still have laws against murder.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.