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sundin13 said:
Snoopy said:

Dude, look at the chart and notice that the 90's was terrible and had a higher murder rate than the last two decades. It was until the end of the 90's when the murder rate started going back down to the level of the 60's which is considered pretty normal. However, if you look at the end of the chart (last 10 years) you can see another spike is occurring.

The homicide rate was plummeting through almost the entirety of the '90s. Under your assertion that democratic policies are the cause of increasing crime rates, this trend makes no sense. You cannot claim that something is making something else worse without evidence past the fact that rapid improvement was seen during the time period that was supposedly "the worst".

How does this not compute? Like, do you not understand how time works? Do you not understand that in order to get from bad->good, you typically have to go through everything in between?

While it is tremendously unnecessary, here is yet another graph showing how this argument is bullshit:

As you can see, the trend is consistent across both Rural (largely Republican) and Urban (largely Democrat) areas for the past two decades, with Urban areas rapidly catching up to the lower crime rates of Rural areas (meaning improvement has been greater in Democratic areas than Republican areas). This implies a lot of things. First of all, it implies that you are thoroughly full of shit, but we already knew that. Second, it implies that the spike in crime in the early '90s was not strictly a result of local politics. It implies that there was instead larger cultural or national level trends leading to this higher crime rate, which is further obfuscated by the fact that this was not just a national trend, it was largely a global one.

You have nothing.

No, you have less than nothing.

Dude, look at the graph again. In the '90s, it was the worse of times when comparing to the last three decades. Are you blind? It doesn't matter if it's going down. It's like saying I reduce my debt from 100,000 to 99,999. Who cares, the problem still isn't close to being resolved and you can see at the end of the graph you posted previously there is an increase of murderers in democrat cities in the last few years. 

Last edited by Snoopy - on 21 August 2019

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Bofferbrauer2 said:
SpokenTruth said:
Until Snoopy can produce the following:

1). Evidence that Democrats intentionally "increase gun violence, poverty, and broken families so they become more reliant on the government and give them more votes".
2). Evidence that Democratic mayors "move their problems from one city to the next".

I encourage we stop debating with him. He's clearing not engaging with us in good faith.

Beside the fact that he doesn't make sense. After all, he's claiming that there's more gun violence because democrats restricted gun access. So they cause more gun violence because they don't have access to guns so they're killing with the guns they don't have... huh?

Restricting gun access for law-abiding citizens.

1. Look at how Democrats set ridiculous regulations that bankrupt cities like Detroit.

2. When a city runs out of money and resource, people move to another city to drain their resources. A similar thing is happening to Baltimore.

https://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2013/07/30/5-ways-liberalism-destroyed-detroit-n1651524

Last edited by Snoopy - on 21 August 2019

the-pi-guy said:

Snoopy said:

Restricting gun access for law-abiding citizens.

Yet strangely this works in literally every other country. 

Maybe these issues are slightly more complicated than "gun access=good".  Just maybe.  

Snoopy said:

Look at how Democrats set ridiculous regulations that bankrupt cities like Detroit.

Ignoring the fact that this is cherry picking.  

It'd help to know that most of Detroit's mayors were Republican up till 1962, well after Detroit started declining.  From 1924 till 1962, Detroit only had a Democratic mayor for 5 of those years.  Only a few months of those were in the 1950's, during the start of Detroit's decline.    

But sure, Detroit is a great scapegoat, because it's been entirely Democratic after it's decline.  Key word being after.  

Snoopy said:

2. When a city runs out of money and resource, people move to another city to drain their resources. A similar thing is happening to Baltimore.

That doesn't really make sense.  What money and resources do they run out of?  

1. I guess you haven't heard of Mexico.

2. https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/how-decades-of-democratic-rule-ruined-some-of-our-finest-cities/ 1957 was the last year where Detroit elected a Republican mayor. Detroit decline was moderate at worse during Republican control. Which is normal for a city as market shifts. However, it declined significantly worse than any United States city in history at that time when Democrats took control. Not to mention Democrats let it go bankrupt.

3. They need another city full of people who are willing to work and pay for their social programs and give them service.

Last edited by Snoopy - on 21 August 2019

Snoopy, you keep saying it was worst in the 90's. Wasn't Bush senior the president from 1989 - 1993? So by that logic...it got the worst DURING his presidency.

I'm not siding one way or another as I don't believe President alone dictates crime in a country, but c'mon. The crime was going down like the entirety of Clinton's presidency...and if a Democratic President directly led to more/worse crime, I don't think the decline would be so substantial.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon said:
Snoopy, you keep saying it was worst in the 90's. Wasn't Bush senior the president from 1989 - 1993? So by that logic...it got the worst DURING his presidency.

I'm not siding one way or another as I don't believe President alone dictates crime in a country, but c'mon. The crime was going down like the entirety of Clinton's presidency...and if a Democratic President directly led to more/worse crime, I don't think the decline would be so substantial.

Most policies that affect you is your local policies.



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SpokenTruth said:

Snoopy, please provide:


1). Evidence that Democrats intentionally "increase gun violence, poverty, and broken families so they become more reliant on the government and give them more votes".
2). Evidence that Democratic mayors "move their problems from one city to the next".

Failure to adequately address these claims of yours will result in a majority consensus among us that you are either intentionally lying or willfully ignorant. This is your opportunity to quell these assertions.

1. Already proven it to you by showing credible sources of Liberal ran cities have the highest gun violence and people in poverty. If you know your policies aren't working, why keep pushing it? Because it will make them rely on government handouts which mean they will vote democrats to make sure the gravy train doesn't end.

2. When a city gets worse, people have to move due to lack of jobs and money. So they go to another city with a lot of jobs to repeat the same mistakes as before. Heavy business regulations and more taxes on hard-working citizens.



the-pi-guy said:

Snoopy said:

1. I guess you haven't heard of Mexico.

Ironically, Mexico's failure is because of the US's.

https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-all-mexico-violence-fueled-illegal-us-guns-1453694

Snoopy said:

2. https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/how-decades-of-democratic-rule-ruined-some-of-our-finest-cities/ 1957 was the last year where Detroit elected a Republican mayor. Detroit decline was moderate at worse during Republican control. Which is normal for a city as market shifts. However, it declined significantly worse than any United States city in history at that time when Democrats took control. Not to mention Democrats let it go bankrupt.

And he was mayor until 1962. 

If you're going to take a random selection of "worst cities to live in" that happen to be Democrat, you also have to take into account the best cities to live in.

https://realestate.usnews.com/places/rankings/best-places-to-live

Austin Texas:  Last few mayors are Democratic

Denver, CO: Democratic since the 1960's.  

Colorado Springs: Several Republican mayors recently

(A couple it's harder to find lists on)

Saint Paul: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_Saint_Paul,_Minnesota Democratic minus 6 years, since the 1960's.  

San Francisco: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayor_of_San_Francisco Democratic since the 1960's.

Portland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_Portland,_Oregon Democratic or left leaning, minus one year since the late 50's. 

So why is this list of successes not as important as your list of failures?  It's almost like cherry picking can lead to whatever result you want.  

The reality is that the crime rate of a city is down to a lot of factors.  Blaming Republicans/Democrats as a whole is the stuff of nonsense.  Corruption leads to a lot of failures, and corruption can happen to either political party.  

Unlike you, I don't think Republicans are bad just for being Republicans.  I don't even think most of them are bad.  

And I don't think Democrats are good just for being Democrats.  And similarly I don't even think most of them are all that great.  

The world is complicated.  People are complicated.  

I know it's so much easier to just blame Dems for such and such failures.  But you aren't doing yourself any favors.  

No one is perfect.  Everyone makes mistakes. Doesn't mean that one political party is better than the other.  

Snoopy said:

3. They need another city full of people who are willing to work and pay for their social programs.

That's not how any of this works.  

1. It's United States fault? Fine, then tell Mexico to keep their people in their Country and pay more for security on the border. However, we all know it's because guns are banned in Mexico. If it isn't the United States, they will buy it off another Country.

2. Yes, and Detroit failed miserably during the 70's. They didn't stop any of the riots and forced productive people to leave the City. Kind of like what's happening in California (Democrat stronghold). Also, the other cities you mentioned aren't doing great either. San Francisco streets are being littered with human poop due to the homeless crisis.

3. Yes because people aren't getting enough money from social programs. Not to mention all the people who are educated like doctors will leave because if you are educated and have a nice career, why would you stay in Detroit lol.

Last edited by Snoopy - on 22 August 2019

So moving on from this nonsense, what does everybody think about Trump dragging out the anti-semetic "Dual loyalty" trope again?



sundin13 said:

So moving on from this nonsense, what does everybody think about Trump dragging out the anti-semetic "Dual loyalty" trope again?

You assume that after it was decided and agreed by everyone that Snoopy isn't engaging in good faith that people would stop talking to him and move on from this nonsense. That was very silly of you.

The dual loyalty trope coming out was pretty shocking even for Trump, but with all his bizarre ramblings of late, and his documented worsening slurring of words, I'm thinking his brain is actually melting down from all the stress, he's developing dementia, and the anti-Semitism coming out full force is just a product of his filter being completely gone due to the brain damage, allowing the white supremacist narcissist sociopath we all knew was there through coded language to just come out in the open.



the-pi-guy said:
Snoopy said:

Most policies that affect you is your local policies.

But when the entire country, rural and urban are seeing similar trends, it's almost impossible to be due to local policies.  

Snoopy said:

1. Already proven it to you by showing credible sources of Liberal ran cities have the highest gun violence and people in poverty. If you know your policies aren't working, why keep pushing it? Because it will make them rely on government handouts which mean they will vote democrats to make sure the gravy train doesn't end.

2. When a city gets worse, people have to move due to lack of jobs and money. So they go to another city with a lot of jobs to repeat the same mistakes as before. Heavy business regulations and more taxes on hard-working citizens.

1.  False, you gave a couple of cherry picked examples, while ignoring other Liberal ran cities that do much better.  

1B.  the policies themselves work fine.  Most of the guns that are used in crimes in Chicago for example, are brought in from other areas without those policies.  

1C.  How people go into poverty is complicated.  People love pointing at California as an example of how liberal policies cause homelessness, but the reality is that the reason housing is so expensive there is because the state isn't building enough houses.  The reason why they aren't building enough houses, is because people don't want the houses there so they vote for people to prevent housing.  

So in California's case, the reason for poverty isn't because economically they are failing, it is essentially the opposite.  It's doing so well that people are moving in, but people don't want more people to move in.

2.  You're claiming that the reasons why jobs get lost is exclusively due to local liberal policies (regulations, taxes), that's pretty nonsensical.

And I'm sure you're unconvinced about Detroit, despite the fact that during the 1950's and up till 1962, when the Auto industry in Detroit was falling on its face, that those are somehow Democratic policy mistakes, despite a Republican being in charge.  

1. The '90s was one of the worse eras in violent crimes. When Republicans took over in the early 2000's we have seen huge improvements. However, it mainly changed for the better when local government change mayors and Democrats started to see the error of their ways.

2. Like I said many times before, market changes. For example, HSN was huge, but now is becoming less relevant in Amazon's world. A lot of people lost their jobs due to HSN layoffs and moved elsewhere for a career. However, doesn't mean the city HSN operates in will or should fail. 

Poverty seems to be a Democrat ran problem for the most part nowadays.

Also, houses are expensive because we let people take out ridiculous loans that they will not be able to pay. And of course, the federal government will bail the banks out again.

Last edited by Snoopy - on 22 August 2019