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Why did Jesus Christ sacrifice his self for you?

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vivster said:
EricHiggin said:

Whose fault is that? Who has the capability to help these people? Why haven't they if it's the right thing to do?

Nope. Being too nice will eventually get you 'mowed down' by someone else who doesn't care. Assuming we just haven't been able to weed out all the 'bad ones' just yet would be a poor conclusion. There's a reason disease and flu's etc don't just die and go away forever.

Jesus was God in human form, which is where his 'magic' powers came from. Thank you science and tech, for making people wait days in line, texting on their 'old' iPhone, waiting to buy the yearly super expensive new iPhone, that really doesn't make much of a difference, instead of better using that time and money to truly make a difference. 

You should let humans decide for themselves if they prefer to fiddle with their iPhones or rather die of the plague in a ditch. I think it's highly offensive to human accomplishment to suggest that we're worse off today than we were in the past. But of course it's nothing new that the Church hates progress. Progress means humans no longer need the cheap and artificial comfort of religion anymore.

You're telling me that I cannot live a good life if I don't pretend that some magical entity is ruling over me? Offense taken.

Let them be slaves in heaven when they leave this earth and we the free spirits ,will make our own kingdom. :p



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Immersiveunreality said:
vivster said:

You should let humans decide for themselves if they prefer to fiddle with their iPhones or rather die of the plague in a ditch. I think it's highly offensive to human accomplishment to suggest that we're worse off today than we were in the past. But of course it's nothing new that the Church hates progress. Progress means humans no longer need the cheap and artificial comfort of religion anymore.

You're telling me that I cannot live a good life if I don't pretend that some magical entity is ruling over me? Offense taken.

Let them be slaves in heaven when they leave this earth and we the free spirits ,will make our own kingdom. :p

With blackjack and hookers.



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Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

Whose fault is that? Who has the capability to help these people? Why haven't they if it's the right thing to do?

Probably not enough thoughts and prayers.

...Jokes aside, it's a societal issue, usually because of poor economics, planning and funding. - It's a catastrophic issue in developing nations that's for sure.

Good one. lol. People being 'good' because it's just naturally right doesn't fit in this case. Plenty of possessions that could be sold, or never held in the first place, leaving plenty for others, and lot's of time wasted that could be used to help others, instead of over helping ourselves. There was a guy who preached this stuff, which we call religion, but that's dumb and wrong somehow? No wonder why they put him to death for talking sense.

Pemalite said:

EricHiggin said: 

Jesus was God in human form, which is where his 'magic' powers came from.

That smells like an assertion. - Got evidence?
And if Jesus was a God, then he couldn't die anyway, thus making his sacrifice a useless affair.

That smells like an assertion. - Got evidence?

Torillian said:
EricHiggin said:

Whose fault is that? Who has the capability to help these people? Why haven't they if it's the right thing to do?

Nope. Being too nice will eventually get you 'mowed down' by someone else who doesn't care. Assuming we just haven't been able to weed out all the 'bad ones' just yet would be a poor conclusion. There's a reason disease and flu's etc don't just die and go away forever.

Jesus was God in human form, which is where his 'magic' powers came from. Thank you science and tech, for making people wait days in line, texting on their 'old' iPhone, waiting to buy the yearly super expensive new iPhone, that really doesn't make much of a difference, instead of better using that time and money to truly make a difference. 

Seems like a silly argument. Don't you think that people going to church and tithing have wasted more of their time and money than the average person has on iphones?

So your saying their both wrong? How is that money spent on iPhones spread vs the money given to the church?

vivster said:
EricHiggin said:

Whose fault is that? Who has the capability to help these people? Why haven't they if it's the right thing to do?

Nope. Being too nice will eventually get you 'mowed down' by someone else who doesn't care. Assuming we just haven't been able to weed out all the 'bad ones' just yet would be a poor conclusion. There's a reason disease and flu's etc don't just die and go away forever.

Jesus was God in human form, which is where his 'magic' powers came from. Thank you science and tech, for making people wait days in line, texting on their 'old' iPhone, waiting to buy the yearly super expensive new iPhone, that really doesn't make much of a difference, instead of better using that time and money to truly make a difference. 

You should let humans decide for themselves if they prefer to fiddle with their iPhones or rather die of the plague in a ditch. I think it's highly offensive to human accomplishment to suggest that we're worse off today than we were in the past. But of course it's nothing new that the Church hates progress. Progress means humans no longer need the cheap and artificial comfort of religion anymore.

You're telling me that I cannot live a good life if I don't pretend that some magical entity is ruling over me? Offense taken.

The point is about doing what's right and helping people because it's naturally and logically the right thing to do. If so, why are there so many wealthy, smart, healthy, able people, yet so many poor, unintelligent, sick, weak people? Fiddling with your iPhone isn't helping those people. Paying what you did for it in the first place really isn't helping.

I'm not telling you anything, but your making up fallacies by not knowing the history of the conversation, or flat out not caring. I think it's offensive that you didn't take the time to read and understand the point being made, and also that you think people should be able to stand and watch people drown, when their fully capable of swimming, plus have a boat and first aid kit on hand.

I'm not offended though, because there's no logical reason to be.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

EricHiggin said:
Pemalite said:

Probably not enough thoughts and prayers.

...Jokes aside, it's a societal issue, usually because of poor economics, planning and funding. - It's a catastrophic issue in developing nations that's for sure.

Good one. lol. People being 'good' because it's just naturally right doesn't fit in this case. Plenty of possessions that could be sold, or never held in the first place, leaving plenty for others, and lot's of time wasted that could be used to help others, instead of over helping ourselves. There was a guy who preached this stuff, which we call religion, but that's dumb and wrong somehow? No wonder why they put him to death for talking sense.

People being "good" has helped a ton. - Bill Gates with his foundation and the Billions he has donated to assist those in need.

But materialism that you are eloquently describing isn't inherently a religions/non-religious affair... The Church essentially is one of the wealthiest organizations on the planet with a store-front in every town/neighborhood/state/country on the planet who avoid paying taxes and always have their hands out for donations.
They likely own Trillions in just property across the Globe alone.

EricHiggin said:

That smells like an assertion. - Got evidence?

Nope don't need it either, as I was poking holes through your assertion.

 



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

The amount of talking past one another, lack of understanding atheist thought on the theist's side and the lack of understanding of Christian doctrine and history on the atheist side in this thread hurts my brain.

I think this thread needs to go.



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Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

Good one. lol. People being 'good' because it's just naturally right doesn't fit in this case. Plenty of possessions that could be sold, or never held in the first place, leaving plenty for others, and lot's of time wasted that could be used to help others, instead of over helping ourselves. There was a guy who preached this stuff, which we call religion, but that's dumb and wrong somehow? No wonder why they put him to death for talking sense.

People being "good" has helped a ton. - Bill Gates with his foundation and the Billions he has donated to assist those in need.

But materialism that you are eloquently describing isn't inherently a religions/non-religious affair... The Church essentially is one of the wealthiest organizations on the planet with a store-front in every town/neighborhood/state/country on the planet who avoid paying taxes and always have their hands out for donations.
They likely own Trillions in just property across the Globe alone.

Why does he donate?

True but if the church was dirt poor would anyone pay any attention to it? How much more or less good does the church do with it's wealth as compared to others?

Pemalite said: 
EricHiggin said:

That smells like an assertion. - Got evidence?

Nope don't need it either, as I was poking holes through your assertion.

Leaving out your full reply because what you said falls under the same assertions my point did? That's pretty MSM of you. How do you know if there is a God that they couldn't die? Where did you learn that? It sure wasn't science class.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

EricHiggin said:

Why does he donate?

True but if the church was dirt poor would anyone pay any attention to it? How much more or less good does the church do with it's wealth as compared to others?

He donates because he probably likes to help others? Not entirely sure on the exacting reasons.
Why am I a firefighter? - To help others.
Why am I an emergency services officer? - To help others.
Why am I a carer? - To help others.

It's called empathy and the drive to help others, no God needed to be a decent human being.

EricHiggin said:

True but if the church was dirt poor would anyone pay any attention to it? How much more or less good does the church do with it's wealth as compared to others?

The real question is... Do they deserve any attention?

EricHiggin said:

Leaving out your full reply because what you said falls under the same assertions my point did? That's pretty MSM of you.

The Original claim is about whether a God exists or not, so I am going to have a bit of fun after that claim has been thrown.

EricHiggin said:

How do you know if there is a God that they couldn't die? Where did you learn that? It sure wasn't science class.

If your God can die, then your God doesn't exist.
It's basic common sense.

And that just means your God isn't all powerful and thus that means you God isn't worthy of worship.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

I keep reading new posts and I keep having new headaches. So, much wrong, cannot hope to ever tackle it all. Lets move on to gaming.



Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

Why does he donate?

True but if the church was dirt poor would anyone pay any attention to it? How much more or less good does the church do with it's wealth as compared to others?

He donates because he probably likes to help others? Not entirely sure on the exacting reasons.
Why am I a firefighter? - To help others.
Why am I an emergency services officer? - To help others.
Why am I a carer? - To help others.
It's called empathy and the drive to help others, no God needed to be a decent human being.

This was the point.

Pemalite said: 

EricHiggin said: 

True but if the church was dirt poor would anyone pay any attention to it? How much more or less good does the church do with it's wealth as compared to others?

The real question is... Do they deserve any attention?

Does anyone, other than maybe newborns/children?

Pemalite said: 

EricHiggin said: 

Leaving out your full reply because what you said falls under the same assertions my point did? That's pretty MSM of you.

The Original claim is about whether a God exists or not, so I am going to have a bit of fun after that claim has been thrown.

Ok, but using another assertion to prove the initial assertion wrong is like walking in circles when your destination is in one specific direction.

Pemalite said:

EricHiggin said: 

How do you know if there is a God that they couldn't die? Where did you learn that? It sure wasn't science class.

If your God can die, then your God doesn't exist.
It's basic common sense.

And that just means your God isn't all powerful and thus that means you God isn't worthy of worship.

Who says God has to be infinite in the way we understand it? Maybe they just have a 1 trillion year lifespan, and maybe that's how long the universe can last before it collapses, so technically that would mean they live the entire duration of the lifespan of existence, so that would fall under infinite.

If being all powerful is the only thing that deserves uncompromised worship, then why doesn't the world worship dictators more so than other types of leaders?



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

You think because your nice to people that they won't harm you? What did the Jews ever do to Hitler? What did the Dems ever do to Trump? Are religion and survival one and the same? If another group of people are going to kill you and all of your people, does it matter what religion they, or you hold at that point?

That's not it at all. Not entirely sure how you even came to that conclusion.
Religion isn't a pre-requisite to a good life and being a decent human being, I am literal evidence for that.

EricHiggin said:

So your saying people should bang their brains out and expect to get away without dealing with the logical consequences? Don't live life like everything is easy and free seems pretty logical to me.

What?
There are consequences. Like being dead.

The thing with Religion is that you can be an absolutely abhorrent disgusting rapist... But if you pray hard enough, you will get into Heaven. - Where is the consequence there?

EricHiggin said:

Typically that path leads to the demise of that economy/society eventually, and not all that long down the road. Religion is like a large main block of the base of a pyramid. Slowly chip away at that block and the whole thing crumbles.

Nah. Plenty of secular nations get on fine without religion. It's not a required foundation for a functioning society, it never was, never will.

EricHiggin said:


Sometimes being gullible is necessary. More so in large, major, immediate events. Well as far as we know he actually practiced what he preached, and what he preached was pretty logical and peaceful. Not entirely, but in comparison, peaceful. How many of us can say the same about ourselves?

If you think Jesus was a nice guy... Think again.

* Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send [or bring] peace, but a sword.  - Matthew 10:34 - Jesus wanted war.

* Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the  the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. -  Matthew 10:21 - Families will be torn a part by Jesus.

* Jesus condemned entire cities to death and eternal torment because they don't care for his preaching. - Matthew 11:20

* Jesus criticized the Jewish people for not murdering their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. - Mark 7:9

And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

The Bible is really a terrible, disgusting book, just like the Torah and Quran... And Jesus is a disgusting individual, God, Son of God, Human or Fairy-tale or not.

My point of view:

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send [or bring] peace, but a sword.  - Matthew 10:34 - Jesus wanted war.

One and only one meaning makes sense with the other things that Jesus taught here: Jesus was warning his disciples that their love for him would not be peacefully accepted by people who don't believe. At the time, people were hoping that the messiah would bring political peace but that was a false hope and Jesus was warning people not to cling to that false hope. You will notice that there is a lot of venom aimed at Christianity, with the martyrdom of early Christians in the roman times, to the  silent execution of Christians in the middle east, Jesus was correct.

* Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the  the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. -  Matthew 10:21 - Families will be torn a part by Jesus.

See my point above. Jesus does not want pain, but to stand for what is true will lead to martyrdom of Christians. Non-believing Brothers deliver their  Christian brothers to death, this happens in worlds that are hostile to Christians be it today around the globe or during history. Non believing children rebel against their believing parents, and cause them even to be put to death in some countires. Don't underestimate the evil in human nature. The instigator of all this is Satan, who wants the blood of innocents, this is not Jesus' work. Jesus calls Christians to submit to one another and non-believing brothers, parents, etc. You really got this one upside down.

* Jesus condemned entire cities to death and eternal torment because they don't care for his preaching. - Matthew 11:20

Jesus claims to be the path to salvation. This is a serious warning not a judgement, so they can take it seriously for the salvation of their own souls.

* Jesus criticized the Jewish people for not murdering their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. - Mark 7:9

In this passage, Jesus is not asking for Jews to put their children to death. If that were true he would not have put a stop to the execution of the adulteress (John 7:5-8:1) This passage rather criticises the concept of avoiding the duty to honor one's parents in order to respect a tradition that intervened with the 4th commandment, in such way causing the children to disobey out of respect for a false rite.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

The Bible is really a terrible, disgusting book, just like the Torah and Quran... And Jesus is a disgusting individual, God, Son of God, Human or Fairy-tale or not.

This truly is the tip of the iceberg that demonstrates the enormous, underwater titan of a need for research, soul-seeking and honesty when it comes to how you read the bible. It is urgent that you throw away the hate-tinted glasses you were raised with and put on a new set of glasses to help you understand what the bible actually is trying to communicate to you and to all the other souls out there. This transformation is called being born again, a term many despise because it is Satan's worst nightmare, the conversion of a soul to the kingdom of heaven. Through That healing process, you will be able to finally read what the bible says without twisting it completely out of form. It will no longer be disgusting, but a font of wisdom and peace, and Jesus the role-model you like I and many others desperately need.