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KLAMarine said:
Machiavellian said:

Actually I suggest Kap keep doing exactly what he is doing.  We all can analize what we believe is the correct route but only history will tell us if it's successful.  I have no clue if his course is correct, right or wrong, what I do know is he is exercising his rights as an American.  I am sure plenty of people during Dr King days told him that he should do his protest this way or that but he did it his way.  If you read his letter you would have noticed that line there as well.  While a protest is happening everyone has an opinion but very few actually have the will to carry it out.  I put more faith in him actually doing than talking.  

Naomi is Japanese and black, you do know that right. Do you think she has that skin tone because she is very tanned.  So if this artist can portray Serena this way, he cannot take the time to at least give some ethnic look to Naomi. Give me a break.  If anything when you look at the 2 pictures their skin tone is pretty close to each other.

You do know that it doesn't matter how you would do something right.  It get this same feeling when you discuss how Kap should protest.  You view it how you would do it more than how it should be done. It seems to be a theme with how you look at life.  You look at everything with how you were born or raise and how you walk this earth forgetting everyone path is not the same or different.

"Actually I suggest Kap keep doing exactly what he is doing."

>I'll agree if he has stopped with the kneeling.

"Naomi is Japanese and black, you do know that right."

>This is news to me. I saw the last name Osaka and the Japanese flag, I assumed Japanese. I saw her, I assumed a tan. The artist might have done that too...

"You view it how you would do it more than how it should be done."

>But the way I would do it and the way it should be done are the same thing. The way I would do it is the way it should be done. The way it should be done is the way I would do it.

Lol, I give you that one.  We all basically look at anything the way we would do it.  



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SpokenTruth said:
KLAMarine said:

"Actually I suggest Kap keep doing exactly what he is doing."

>I'll agree if he has stopped with the kneeling.

This is why debating you (and others with your opinion) leads to frustration.

I appreciate the sudden greater specificity. The less ambiguity, the better...

SpokenTruth said: 

Kaepernick is the central figure in this whole situation and you're not even aware he hasn't taken to the field since late 2016.  In other words, he stopped kneeling almost 2 years ago.   If you miss this part, what else do you guys miss?  We already had to show you his philanthropic activities, volunteering and political activism history.  Or that the kneeling itself was at the suggestion of a Green Beret because kneeling is a universal display of respect.

I had something of a suspicion that he hasn't played for a long time. This info wasn't very relevant to me when I first posted in this thread.

Has he indicated that he would stop kneeling if he were able to get back on the field?

SpokenTruth said: 

If you go into these things with just the Fox News/Sean Hannity information, we have to fill you in on so much relevant data.  We shouldn't have to fill you in on all that.

Assume you will have to be it out in public or on the internet.

SpokenTruth said: 

And we wouldn't if right leaning media would do its damn job instead of just trying to make you mad.

Let's not pretend left-leaning media is not itself also capable of misleading.

SpokenTruth said: 

It comes down to this.  People that truly care about an issue will research it.  People that just want to be mad, won't. You don't come off as the guy who just wants to be mad so please don't be that guy.

How do you know when someone just wants to be mad?



Kaepernick a modern day civil rights leader and relatable to the people on social media. Serena Williams is a modern day Rosa Parks.



Dark_Lord_2008 said:

Kaepernick a modern day civil rights leader and relatable to the people on social media. Serena Williams is a modern day Rosa Parks.



KLAMarine said:
SpokenTruth said:

This is why debating you (and others with your opinion) leads to frustration.

I appreciate the sudden greater specificity. The less ambiguity, the better...

SpokenTruth said: 

Kaepernick is the central figure in this whole situation and you're not even aware he hasn't taken to the field since late 2016.  In other words, he stopped kneeling almost 2 years ago.   If you miss this part, what else do you guys miss?  We already had to show you his philanthropic activities, volunteering and political activism history.  Or that the kneeling itself was at the suggestion of a Green Beret because kneeling is a universal display of respect.

I had something of a suspicion that he hasn't played for a long time. This info wasn't very relevant to me when I first posted in this thread.

Has he indicated that he would stop kneeling if he were able to get back on the field?

SpokenTruth said: 

If you go into these things with just the Fox News/Sean Hannity information, we have to fill you in on so much relevant data.  We shouldn't have to fill you in on all that.

Assume you will have to be it out in public or on the internet.

SpokenTruth said: 

And we wouldn't if right leaning media would do its damn job instead of just trying to make you mad.

Let's not pretend left-leaning media is not itself also capable of misleading.

SpokenTruth said: 

It comes down to this.  People that truly care about an issue will research it.  People that just want to be mad, won't. You don't come off as the guy who just wants to be mad so please don't be that guy.

How do you know when someone just wants to be mad?

What it appears is that you are really not educated on the issue at all.  Not sure where you get your information or even if you care but it seems that the only thing I really got from you is that you do not support Kap kneeling.  What exactly about him kneeling that you do not like.  IS there anything specifically stating that kneeling during the anthem is unpatriotic or un American or whatever.  Until this whole thing started, I wonder if people were upset because others made an issue of it more than anything written.  In other words, if the same people changed their view (FOX) would people who do not support this non-violent action would have a different perspective.



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Machiavellian said:
KLAMarine said:

I appreciate the sudden greater specificity. The less ambiguity, the better...

I had something of a suspicion that he hasn't played for a long time. This info wasn't very relevant to me when I first posted in this thread.

Has he indicated that he would stop kneeling if he were able to get back on the field?

Assume you will have to be it out in public or on the internet.

Let's not pretend left-leaning media is not itself also capable of misleading.

How do you know when someone just wants to be mad?

What it appears is that you are really not educated on the issue at all.  Not sure where you get your information or even if you care but it seems that the only thing I really got from you is that you do not support Kap kneeling.  What exactly about him kneeling that you do not like.  IS there anything specifically stating that kneeling during the anthem is unpatriotic or un American or whatever.

You would know the problem I have with Kaep's kneeling if you would have read through my posts in this thread. I will save you the trouble by saying simply:

A kneeling gesture is ambiguous and facilitates misunderstanding. Just listen to one of SpokenTruth's own complaints earlier in this thread:

"the majority of people that have lashed out at Kaepernick have no idea that was the reason and they simply attribute it to protesting the flag and the anthem."

I suggest Kaep wear a shirt next time with his grievances clear in writing.

Machiavellian said: 

Until this whole thing started, I wonder if people were upset because others made an issue of it more than anything written.  In other words, if the same people changed their view (FOX) would people who do not support this non-violent action would have a different perspective.

...I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here...



The problem with Kap isn't even that he's disrespecting the flag or anthem or Country if you want to take it that far. The problem is that it's being seen by the people, mostly on the right, that he's doing something really wrong to try and make a minor right. As far as the right is concerned, Kap could have done basically anything at this same level of negativity and it wouldn't change the way they see his protest.

Now Kaps point in a way is that he had to do something like this to gain enough media attention to get the message out to a large enough audience, but the people are saying he should have done it in another more tasteful way. Even if the problem was being suppressed and was bad enough that it required what he did, then they should have all been able to turn a blind eye to the wrongdoing and help make things right, but they haven't.

The fact that the people are mostly aware of the deeper meaning behind this, and still don't care, means the issue wasn't a big enough problem to warrant what he did. That's also not to say the issue is worthless either. This just makes the right even angrier when more players join and continue to kneel, instead of handling the reason for the protest in a different way after seeing they aren't making the progress they hoped to make.



SpokenTruth said:
KLAMarine said:

You would know the problem I have with Kaep's kneeling if you would have read through my posts in this thread. I will save you the trouble by saying simply:

A kneeling gesture is ambiguous and facilitates misunderstanding. Just listen to one of SpokenTruth's own complaints earlier in this thread:

"the majority of people that have lashed out at Kaepernick have no idea that was the reason and they simply attribute it to protesting the flag and the anthem."

I suggest Kaep wear a shirt next time with his grievances clear in writing.

You do know this is not Kaepernick's fault, right?  He expressed exactly what his protest was but right leaning media intentionally left that out and started talking military, flag and anthem disrespect.

You cannot lay the misunderstanding at his feet when he spoke about the problem at every chance he had and the right leaning media lead you to a different topic entirely.  You, and those others, failed to know the problem because your media failed to inform you....on purpose.  They wanted you mad and it worked.

I hold him partially responsible for the misunderstanding. He did not speak "about the problem at every chance he had". When he was kneeling, he was doing no talking. Perfect chance to hold up a sign of some sort leading to his website for example.

Of course, he is not totally responsible: there will be elements who wish to warp his message for whatever reason but that is something beyond his control. What he can do is make it as difficult as possible for these elements to misrepresent him.

SpokenTruth said:

And again, wearing a t-shirt still draws ire.

And that's ridiculous (assuming the shirt is appropriate).

SpokenTruth said:

I already showed you that.  They still tell you not to protest like that.  They don't want to acknowledge a problem exists, much less be part of the solution, so they deride every feasible means of protest.  And then further, they redirect the protest back at the protestor and find any fault they can to make him the bad guy because they can't handle the slightest possibility that the problem exists and they may be part of that problem.  They can't handle the fact that social injustice still exists.  Or worse, they want it to exist.  Those people protesting Dr. King didn't vanish into thin air after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was put into effect and they didn't suddenly raise their kids any differently.

So where are these people who do these things? Do you have a list of names or Twitter accounts? Facebook accounts?



EricHiggin said:

The problem with Kap isn't even that he's disrespecting the flag or anthem or Country if you want to take it that far. The problem is that it's being seen by the people, mostly on the right, that he's doing something really wrong to try and make a minor right. As far as the right is concerned, Kap could have done basically anything at this same level of negativity and it wouldn't change the way they see his protest.

Now Kaps point in a way is that he had to do something like this to gain enough media attention to get the message out to a large enough audience, but the people are saying he should have done it in another more tasteful way. Even if the problem was being suppressed and was bad enough that it required what he did, then they should have all been able to turn a blind eye to the wrongdoing and help make things right, but they haven't.

The fact that the people are mostly aware of the deeper meaning behind this, and still don't care, means the issue wasn't a big enough problem to warrant what he did. That's also not to say the issue is worthless either. This just makes the right even angrier when more players join and continue to kneel, instead of handling the reason for the protest in a different way after seeing they aren't making the progress they hoped to make.

Actually Kap was not looking for media attention when he first started this journey.  The media was looking for something and found Kap.  When this first started, Kap was just sitting on the bench during the anthem.  A journalist noticed him sitting on the bench during the anthem and asked him why and he explained that he could not stand for during the anthem when there was injustice still going on in America.  At this time no one even noticed him sitting on the bench during the anthem or even cared until one journalist made it into a story.

At BOLDED:  Not sure what you mean by this.  Just because someone decide to protest doesn't mean people will just turn the way they think and jump on board.  Any protest takes years to come to any type of conclusion or no conclusion.  This is not a right or left situation it's an institution type of situation.  Black people have been saying they have been abused by the police for years way before Kap and definitely way before camera phones came on the scene.  It was ignored then and it still ignored now even when evidence is presented.  Just like with the Civil rights marches and protest during the 60s, nothing is going to get noticed or changed unless the protest has staying power, raises awareness and does not get side tracked by dumb stuff (violence would be a key which I am sure some detractors would love to happen).  This is not a sprint its a marathon.  As we have shone plenty of times, people always say protest a different way even during the Civil Rights times.  The key is to continue to protest and continue to add that tension which is needed for change.



Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

The fact that the people are mostly aware of the deeper meaning behind this, and still don't care, means the issue wasn't a big enough problem to warrant what he did. That's also not to say the issue is worthless either. This just makes the right even angrier when more players join and continue to kneel, instead of handling the reason for the protest in a different way after seeing they aren't making the progress they hoped to make.

Actually Kap was not looking for media attention when he first started this journey.  The media was looking for something and found Kap.  When this first started, Kap was just sitting on the bench during the anthem.  A journalist noticed him sitting on the bench during the anthem and asked him why and he explained that he could not stand for during the anthem when there was injustice still going on in America.  At this time no one even noticed him sitting on the bench during the anthem or even cared until one journalist made it into a story.

At BOLDED:  Not sure what you mean by this.  Just because someone decide to protest doesn't mean people will just turn the way they think and jump on board.  Any protest takes years to come to any type of conclusion or no conclusion.  This is not a right or left situation it's an institution type of situation.  Black people have been saying they have been abused by the police for years way before Kap and definitely way before camera phones came on the scene.  It was ignored then and it still ignored now even when evidence is presented.  Just like with the Civil rights marches and protest during the 60s, nothing is going to get noticed or changed unless the protest has staying power, raises awareness and does not get side tracked by dumb stuff (violence would be a key which I am sure some detractors would love to happen).  This is not a sprint its a marathon.  As we have shone plenty of times, people always say protest a different way even during the Civil Rights times.  The key is to continue to protest and continue to add that tension which is needed for change.

To assume Kap figured his protest wouldn't ever lead to anything isn't logical. If you don't think doing something is worth it, you don't do it, unless your forced to of course. Kap would have kept standing otherwise. The point of sitting would be to get noticed, which if you take that logical path, will eventually expand depending on the factors at play. Based on the reasoning for his sitting, assuming all he wanted was sympathy from a few team mates, or whatever, makes no sense. If Kap didn't want media attention, he would have told the reporter to beat it and would have kept quiet.

Just recently with the Kavanaugh sexual assault accusation, and protest of his nomination, the vote is being held off even though the evidence at this time couldn't be more weak. One of the reasons no doubt is because she feels she was suppressed considering it happened like 30 years ago and she hasn't been able to come forward. The people clearly think the woman went about this in a proper enough manner, and that it's important enough to be taken care of asap because of it. It's not just about the underlying problem, it's how it's 'marketed' as well. I also wasn't saying protesters should give up, but when you've spent enough time pushing against a brick wall, and you've tried to smash through it and still don't succeed, then maybe you should look at another approach, like take a walk and find where the wall ends for example. Continuing to pound on the wall instead, is just going to fuel the anger of the people inside.