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Forums - Politics Discussion - Do you support the U.S. teacher strikes?

numberwang said:

The Us spends more on education then any other country in the world - it is not a money problem.

U.S. education spending tops global list, study shows

The United States spent more than $11,000 per elementary student in 2010 and more than $12,000 per high school student. When researchers factored in the cost for programs after high school education such as college or vocational training, the United States spent $15,171 on each young person in the system — more than any other nation covered in the report.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/

Well it is also the direction is going to, total spending (while more students) is decreasing:

U.S. spending on elementary and high school education declined 3 percent from 2010 to 2014 even as its economy prospered and its student population grew slightly by 1 percent, boiling down to a 4 percent decrease in spending per student. That's according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development's annual report of education indicators, released last week.

Over this same 2010 to 2014 period, education spending, on average, rose 5 percent per student across the 35 countries in the OECD.

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-09-18/while-rest-of-the-world-invests-more-in-education-the-us-spends-less






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konnichiwa said:

Well not always anti-consumer, last example is about the Japanese bus drivers on strike who choose to not go on the street but drive for free and let no passenger pay them. The public opinion was very positive about the strike while the guys on top have to explain why so much money got lost.

In this case, it is anti-consumer ... 

Aside from the executives or professors who teach at university/college, public school teachers are one of the higher salaried professions in the educational sector ... (they get paid far more than private school teachers despite the fact that they are delivering comparable education quality) 

The guys at the "top" in this case is the government itself who gave teachers a sanctioned monopoly but then they get even more greedy by refusing to service the public who already overpays for them ? (it's clearly the public teachers here who needs to be questioned) 

Hmm, I think it's public school teachers who need to be taught a "lesson" in humility to see just how fragile they are and by that we need to vote most of them out of power so that we can stop wasting our funds on them when there's arguably more cost effective options ... (let's see how they like being treated by the "free market" cause they seem to be afraid of consumers giving them lower pay 

Public school teachers should stop pretending that their jobs are socially prestigious when nearly everybody has a high school diploma so their customers are the masses, not the elites ... 



fatslob-:O said:
konnichiwa said:

Well not always anti-consumer, last example is about the Japanese bus drivers on strike who choose to not go on the street but drive for free and let no passenger pay them. The public opinion was very positive about the strike while the guys on top have to explain why so much money got lost.

In this case, it is anti-consumer ... 

Aside from the executives or professors who teach at university/college, public school teachers are one of the higher salaried professions in the educational sector ... (they get paid far more than private school teachers despite the fact that they are delivering comparable education quality) 

The guys at the "top" in this case is the government itself who gave teachers a sanctioned monopoly but then they get even more greedy by refusing to service the public who already overpays for them ? (it's clearly the public teachers here who needs to be questioned) 

Hmm, I think it's public school teachers who need to be taught a "lesson" in humility to see just how fragile they are and by that we need to vote most of them out of power so that we can stop wasting our funds on them when there's arguably more cost effective options ... (let's see how they like being treated by the "free market" cause they seem to be afraid of consumers giving them lower pay 

Public school teachers should stop pretending that their jobs are socially prestigious when nearly everybody has a high school diploma so their customers are the masses, not the elites ... 

Out of curiosity about the bolded, how does that work in your viewpoint with doctors? Pretty sure nearly everyone goes to the doctor so their customers aren't the elites either.



...

Torillian said:

Out of curiosity about the bolded, how does that work in your viewpoint with doctors? Pretty sure nearly everyone goes to the doctor so their customers aren't the elites either.

They're definitely privileged enough that their somehow compensated very highly for what the available services are worth to their customers (and they only deliver the services per patient occasionally too in a year), I would at least assume so for quite a few of the specialists out there ... (not EVERY service is feasibly accessible by the masses while standardized testing at highest level is) 

Besides, if K-12 teachers out there think they're hot shit and getting paid too little for what they think their work is worth then they can always look to the private sector up until to the point they realize that they don't have it that bad as their previous bottom line ... (when we compare how teachers are paid by nation, they have it pretty good all things considered since only Germany can reliably beat the US on a large scale in terms of teachers compensation)

Hopefully, when AI can get advanced enough in the next half a decade to be able to teach high school students and that K-12 teachers will think otherwise on bringing up crap like this again in the future so that we can avoid redundant topics like this ... 



fatslob-:O said:
Torillian said:

Out of curiosity about the bolded, how does that work in your viewpoint with doctors? Pretty sure nearly everyone goes to the doctor so their customers aren't the elites either.

They're definitely privileged enough that their somehow compensated very highly for what the available services are worth to their customers (and they only deliver the services per patient occasionally too in a year), I would at least assume so for quite a few of the specialists out there ... (not EVERY service is feasibly accessible by the masses while standardized testing at highest level is) 

Besides, if K-12 teachers out there think they're hot shit and getting paid too little for what they think their work is worth then they can always look to the private sector up until to the point they realize that they don't have it that bad as their previous bottom line ... (when we compare how teachers are paid by nation, they have it pretty good all things considered since only Germany can reliably beat the US on a large scale in terms of teachers compensation)

Hopefully, when AI can get advanced enough in the next half a decade to be able to teach high school students and that K-12 teachers will think otherwise on bringing up crap like this again in the future so that we can avoid redundant topics like this ... 

Teachers open windows of knowledge and opportunity to all of us. I know that sounds corny lol, but they do a lot more than meets the eye, especially at underfunded schools. And a LOT of the work is done at home, off the clock. 

On the subject of pay by nation, many professions pay more in the US than other nations, because of things like mandatory health insurance and other quirks. Teaching is no different. 



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No, I support replacing teachers with AI based technology that will better catter to an individual’s learning needs. There are very good teachers out there, but there are so many losers who just become teachers because it’s an easy leech job and lets them vent to a bunch of impressionable minds. For me growing up history teachers were always terrible far left marxists. English teachers were hit and miss. Math teachers were terrible, and science teachers were probably the best of the core. I always found the elective teachers to be more invested in their topic for whatever reason and also more flexible with teaching methods. 



IamAwsome said:

Teachers open windows of knowledge and opportunity to all of us. I know that sounds corny lol, but they do a lot more than meets the eye, especially at underfunded schools. And a LOT of the work is done at home, off the clock. 

On the subject of pay by nation, many professions pay more in the US than other nations, because of things like mandatory health insurance and other quirks. Teaching is no different. 

@Bold It does ... 

And the only thing that they are supposed to do is get students to pass standardized testing, nothing more and nothing less ... 

Many professions get paid more in the US mainly because the country has a higher per capita nominal GDP so quirks like mandatory health insurance play second fiddle ... 

US public teachers in K-12 are paid enough so they should try looking at other opportunities like applying as professor at a university or relocating to Germany if they want higher pay instead of making the public deal with their BS ... (teachers unions are loads of horse shit too) 



I'm curious fatslob, why are you using the average salary of US teachers and not the average salary of teachers in West Virginia, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Arizona, and Colorado where teachers are striking? We know that deep blue states will pay their teachers well, so you have to look at the rest of the country to see why they are striking as the education budget continues to get slashed in many states.

Check this link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2018/03/05/how-much-or-little-teachers-earn-state-by-state/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.530ef79af819

That link has a nice handy chart for you. Pay attention especially to how some states, particularly the states that the teachers are striking in, are paying their teachers on average less than they did almost 20 years ago.

Now I hope you learned enough in school to figure out why having a salary that is lower than what it was almost 20 years ago is a pretty bad situation.

Last edited by Megiddo - on 09 May 2018

Megiddo said:

I'm curious fatslob, why are you using the average salary of US teachers and not the average salary of teachers in West Virginia, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Arizona, and Colorado where teachers are striking? We know that deep blue states will pay their teachers well, so you have to look at the rest of the country to see why they are striking as the education budget continues to get slashed in many states.

Check this link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2018/03/05/how-much-or-little-teachers-earn-state-by-state/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.530ef79af819

That link has a nice handy chart for you. Pay attention especially to how some states, particularly the states that the teachers are striking in, are paying their teachers on average less than they did almost 20 years ago.

Now I hope you learned enough in school to figure out why having a salary that is lower than what it was almost 20 years ago is a pretty bad situation.

Cause some of the red states are often poorer, older and more geographically disadvantaged thus lower salary but let's not pretend that making $40000+ on average in the worst conditions on states with already lower costs of living as being impoverished ... (if teachers in those states think that the pay in some of the blue states are more alluring than lower housing prices, produce or other lower living expenses then I dare them to try living in a big blue state or even a massive city and see if they can get a better paying job that's worth it to them) 

For the less geographically dense states, to them a digitized education is their panacea for delivering the same quality at a lower cost ... (the physical classroom is becoming more redundant than you already think) 



fatslob-:O said:
konnichiwa said:

Well not always anti-consumer, last example is about the Japanese bus drivers on strike who choose to not go on the street but drive for free and let no passenger pay them. The public opinion was very positive about the strike while the guys on top have to explain why so much money got lost.

In this case, it is anti-consumer ... 

 

Yeah it is, I just want to point out that strikes don't always have to be anti-consumer but a teachers strike is harder to do without hurting 'the consumers'. But if you work in a department where the work increases and the funds decreases especially in a economy that is doing good it should be normal that people get on strike?