By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - The American family is falling apart

Good. It's good to see these views fade away.



Around the Network
numberwang said:

57.6% of black children, 31.2% of Hispanic children, and 20.7% of white children are living absent their biological fathers.

http://www.fathers.com/statistics-and-research/the-extent-of-fatherlessness/

The second sentence in your URL: "Millions more have dads who are physically present, but emotionally absent."

A lifelong contract to stay together as a "couple" even when their lives are drifting apart is no guarantee for happy childhoods.

 

Also the absence of the biological father doesn't mean that the children only have one parent / parental figure.



Stefan.De.Machtige said:
A lot of people are saying that marriage doesn't matter for children of general family live. Wel if that's the case, why is fertility way down for most (if not all) countries where the marriage rate tanked...?

The answer is simple:
When the chief pairbonding mechanism fails, the bonding fails also. There was a reason why marriage was pushed in the past. They broke the social/religious contract and with it the core of society.

I did know the internet reached far and wide but I did not know it reached back in time.

So how's having the internet in the 19th century feels? Cause based on your conservative beliefs it's at best the 19th century when you are typing that message.

I don't even know where to begin so I'll just cut to the main point and let you know that fertility rates and marriage have nothing to do with each other. As an example I'll quote Japan where the marriage institution is deeply rooted in social life, yet their fertility rate is plummeting worse than the relevancy of your statement.



the-pi-guy said:
o_O.Q said:

to clarify i should have put "is" because i think the goal of bringing about equal rights for women initially was commendable

 

but now that the main agenda is to take responsibility away from women

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/feb/19/blame-the-rapist

i know this is going to be misinterpreted so let me clarify, my issue with the concept of victim blaming is that it removes the woman's agency in that she is told that her choices have no impact on whether she is victimised or not... this is not only dis-empowering but its also a lie as the women of india have realised

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25727080 

What does this mean?  

o_O.Q said:

to take away choices from women

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/02/01/pc-gone-mad-formula-1-bans-grid-girls-but-some-of-them-arent-happy-about-it/?utm_term=.868925e5bbd4

and pretty much to do the opposite of empowering women for the most part from what i am observing then one has to wonder what is the true aim?

Where are the feminists that were asking this to happen?  

Sure, you can certainly find instances of people supporting this, but you can also find feminists who are opposed to it.

https://www.shemazing.net/opinion-why-the-grid-girls-ban-is-a-step-backwards-for-feminism/

I'm not in favor of banning grid girls, because I'm a feminist.  

 

"What does this mean?"

it means that your choices matter 

it means that if you fear being attacked you can choose to be passive and take no precautions

or alternatively you can choose as the women of india to take precautions such as equipping yourself with a firearm to shoot any attackers dead

 

"Where are the feminists that were asking this to happen?  

Sure, you can certainly find instances of people supporting this, but you can also find feminists who are opposed to it."

the ban was put into place because feminists argued that this objectified women

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/formula-1-one-grid-girls-boxing-sexism-sport-me-too-tennis-a8190686.html

"Boxing has not followed darts and banned the bimbo, but it can’t be long. Until recently, glamorous women were tasked with walking alongside the male darts players onto the stage. It’s unfortunate that people are losing work, but I’m not sorry sporting bodies are finally realising that using women in demeaning roles sends out the wrong message."

the truly ironic thing here is that the woman who writes this claims to be advocating for women's empowerment... but then resorts to calling women who make choices she disagrees with as "the bimbo"... what the fuck

 

https://thedebrief.co.uk/news/opinion/formula-one-grid-girls-sexism-objectification/

"Broadly speaking, you can’t ignore the inherent sexism that surrounds these roles. Employing women solely in a decorative fashion, to adorn and praise successful men is nothing other than problematic. As with anything, context is key. The problem here is not women's bodies, nudity or sexuality. It is the monopolization of those things by men in a male-dominated sphere."

 

"I'm not in favor of banning grid girls, because I'm a feminist.  "

let me ask you a very relevant question here, do you believe that women should be treated the same as men?



the-pi-guy said:
o_O.Q said:

"What does this mean?"

it means that your choices matter 

it means that if you fear being attacked you can choose to be passive and take no precautions

or alternatively you can choose as the women of india to take precautions such as equipping yourself with a firearm to shoot any attackers dead

 

"Where are the feminists that were asking this to happen?  

Sure, you can certainly find instances of people supporting this, but you can also find feminists who are opposed to it."

the ban was put into place because feminists argued that this objectified women

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/formula-1-one-grid-girls-boxing-sexism-sport-me-too-tennis-a8190686.html

"Boxing has not followed darts and banned the bimbo, but it can’t be long. Until recently, glamorous women were tasked with walking alongside the male darts players onto the stage. It’s unfortunate that people are losing work, but I’m not sorry sporting bodies are finally realising that using women in demeaning roles sends out the wrong message."

the truly ironic thing here is that the woman who writes this claims to be advocating for women's empowerment... but then resorts to calling women who make choices she disagrees with as "the bimbo"... what the fuck

 

https://thedebrief.co.uk/news/opinion/formula-one-grid-girls-sexism-objectification/

"Broadly speaking, you can’t ignore the inherent sexism that surrounds these roles. Employing women solely in a decorative fashion, to adorn and praise successful men is nothing other than problematic. As with anything, context is key. The problem here is not women's bodies, nudity or sexuality. It is the monopolization of those things by men in a male-dominated sphere."

 

"I'm not in favor of banning grid girls, because I'm a feminist.  "

let me ask you a very relevant question here, do you believe that women should be treated the same as men?

it means that your choices matter 

it means that if you fear being attacked you can choose to be passive and take no precautions

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/feb/19/blame-the-rapist

This is because even a lot of legitimate rape victims blame themselves.  You don't see that kind of blame in other crimes.  When a house is broken into, how often do you see people blame the house owner and blame them for not having greater security?  

If I were to steal your car, is it your fault for not taking more precautions or is it my fault for doing it?  When it comes to rape, historically it's often never been the fault of the man.  "Boys will be boys."

This is about ensuring that the person who actually did the crime takes the responsibility.  

or alternatively you can choose as the women of india to take precautions such as equipping yourself with a firearm to shoot any attackers dead

No amount of precautions would eliminate every rape.  Or even most.  Most rapes aren't by angry attackers that make the announcement in time to get their gun ready.  

"the ban was put into place because feminists argued that this objectified women"

I don't see this claim anywhere in the article.  

"what the fuck"

I don't consider her a feminist.  

 

let me ask you a very relevant question here, do you believe that women should be treated the same as men?

In general yes.  If a women wants to be a grid girl, that's her right.  If a man wants to be a grid boy, that should be his right too.  

 

"This is because even a lot of legitimate rape victims blame themselves.  You don't see that kind of blame in other crimes. "

you can say that but its not true

if a car is left unlocked and its stolen or a home then the owner is blamed to some extent for their choices

 

"When it comes to rape, historically it's often never been the fault of the man.  "Boys will be boys.""

not that i even believe this to be the case(women despite feminist nonsense were treated in many ways better than men, for example, men being expected to fight and die to protect women and children) but again i'm talking about present day 2018

are you really saying that if a man is caught raping a woman that our society just pats him on the back and says "boys will be boys"?

 

"No amount of precautions would eliminate every rape. "

which is the case with every crime... life unfortunately is not fair, which is why you encourage people to be active and take on as much responsibility as they can even though ultimately something bad may happen to them

at least if they are taking precautions then the likelihood that something bad will happen fall much lower

 

"I don't see this claim anywhere in the article.  "

"Employing women solely in a decorative fashion, to adorn and praise successful men is nothing other than problematic. "

" But any job that is awarded simply on looks and that doesn’t really require much skill apart from evading gropers and permanently smiling, seems pretty degrading. "

i mean... that's what the whole articles were about... that's what the whole issue is about... women holding these positions is supposedly objectification so their freedom to choose the positions must be taken away

 

"In general yes."

but the thing you're not getting is that people use the idea that men and women should be treated equally as justification for taking away women's rights in circumstances where there is inequality in the way men and women are presented

which is just plain stupid because men and women are different in many ways which invariably leads to different types of representation in different areas

 

the problem with current day feminism is that the underlying idea of equality has shifted from being about rights to being about outcomes, which ironically can only end up hurting women

and yes i agree with you that women and men should be free to pursue whatever they want... but this will consequently result in different outcomes which conflicts with the idea of equality of outcomes 




Around the Network

Crap, people are getting children outside of marriage now? What will become of us!? #WeAreDoomed



Wiibaron said:
It is very sad to see how many posters here think is OK, normal, no big deal or worst good that kids are growing up without 2 parents in their home. The statistics are easy to look up, and are given here, that the chances a kid has of being a happy contributor to society are directly related to his upbringing. It began in the mid 60's when women started being less interested in being a 'housewife' and joined the workforce instead. Then they decided they wanted children, and didn't need a husband because they had a career and could provide financially. Not realizing that the husband in a family was way more than just the money needed. At the same time the Gov decided to become provider, which of course led to even more women to go it alone. Now we are seeing the breakdown of society from decades of poorly raised kids themselves having kids. Look at any school today to see the amount of behavior problems that have to be dealt with. Which of course leaves less time for the 'good' kids to be taught. Leaving society with less and less properly educated, raised and adjusted people to contribute to the future. Which is now at the tipping point with really no way to stop or reverse it. The 2030's should be a nightmare.

My brother and I were not born out of wedlock, that didn't prevent our father from being absent for most of our life.



CrazyGamer2017 said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
A lot of people are saying that marriage doesn't matter for children of general family live. Wel if that's the case, why is fertility way down for most (if not all) countries where the marriage rate tanked...?

The answer is simple:
When the chief pairbonding mechanism fails, the bonding fails also. There was a reason why marriage was pushed in the past. They broke the social/religious contract and with it the core of society.

I did know the internet reached far and wide but I did not know it reached back in time.

So how's having the internet in the 19th century feels? Cause based on your conservative beliefs it's at best the 19th century when you are typing that message.

I don't even know where to begin so I'll just cut to the main point and let you know that fertility rates and marriage have nothing to do with each other. As an example I'll quote Japan where the marriage institution is deeply rooted in social life, yet their fertility rate is plummeting worse than the relevancy of your statement.

Lol. You talk about the internet and yet you fail to use it for 3 seconds for googling the marriage rate in Japan:

https://theweek.com/articles/453219/everything-need-know-about-japans-population-crisis

That's just a very quick find from 2014. This marriage probleem in Japan has been known for years and there should many similar articles.

A small quote from the article:

"But most Japanese young people do have friends and relationships — they're just not settling down. The marriage rate has plummeted, and with it the birthrate, since out-of-wedlock births are rare in Japan. In 1975, just 21 percent of women and 49 percent of men under 30 had never been married; by 2005, the figures were 60 percent of women and 72 percent of men."

Like i said before: "When the chief pair bonding mechanism fails, the bonding fails also."

A society which is below replacement rate is slowly dying.

 



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

numberwang said:
xenogears1234 said:

Yeah i think the OP is more interested in propagating an agenda than engaging in a meaningful discussion/debate on this complex topic.

What am I supposed to do with a positive anecdote? Good thing it worked out for them in the end but it is not representative.

Of students in grades 1 through 12, 39 percent (17.7 million) live in homes absent their biological fathers.

In 2011, children living in female-headed homes with no spouse present had a poverty rate of 47.6%. This is over four times the rate for children living in married couple families.

57.6% of black children, 31.2% of Hispanic children, and 20.7% of white children are living absent their biological fathers.

http://www.fathers.com/statistics-and-research/the-extent-of-fatherlessness/

There is a difference between marriage and single parenting. You are comparing 2 very different things. Here in Quebec, for example, people are increasingly considering marriage to be a waste of time. In the younger generations, there are now more people that classify as "conjoints de fait", then married individuals (the former being a term used by the Quebec government to describe people who have lived together for over a year without marrying.) 

These relationships are fully intended to be permanent.

So, in essence, it's just a matter of nomenclature. Families are still a thing, they're just not marrying. I don't see how that's a problem.

 

I'd imagine it to be similar elsewhere

Last edited by palou - on 07 April 2018

Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

Stefan.De.Machtige said:

Like i said before: "When the chief pair bonding mechanism fails, the bonding fails also."

A society which is below replacement rate is slowly dying.

 

Except that was not your point, your point was that being born out of wedlock is what caused fertility dropping down, which is so dumb a point to make that you are slightly changing your rhetoric now with something so obvious that it's really pointless to point it out cause obviously if the replacement rate is below the death rate then the overall result is a shrinking amount of the population.

Also about Japan, just cause the new generations of youth rebelled against the traditions does not mean the entire population of Japan does not marry anymore, yet the ENTIRE population of Japan is in danger of plummeting, for many different reasons, social, economic and cultural. Still that has NOTHING to do with marriage. Marriage is dying and I say let it die.

Perhaps you need to stay in your 19th century and pray for our souls or whatever you people used to do back then.