#1: I'm less concerned with the act of pushing herself as I am the idea of her being fully exposed in space without the bodily fluids inside her beginning to boil and causing severe long term damage, while I believe being unconscious, no less.

#2: I mean, I'd consider suddenly having the ability to communicate over galaxies to be a pretty significant step taken forward. But I'll get to that in #4.

#3: That's such a silly line of reasoning that doesn't make it any less of a plothole. If you're putting any kind of plan into effect that will literally determine whether a large group of people lives or dies, you don't just leave them to figure out your intentions. They might think that you're planning on summoning some other hitherto unmentioned force ability, or just not realize that they need to follow those crystal creatures to get out of the cave system, or perhaps just be so confused that they don't figure it out altogether. Even if you think it's the most obvious thing out there, there's no excuse for not communicating it when you lose nothing by doing so.

And honestly I'm not sure how telling people that you're buying time makes something less "cool." Luke's still out there, still holding up the First Order, still confusing Kylo Ren. Is having your allies stand around and be confused for a few minutes cool now? I can suspend some disbelief for the sake of having a plot in the first place, which I suspect is what Hitchcock was referring to, but this isn't that. The scene becomes no more or less meaningful with Luke just hoping that everyone figures it out.

#4: The problem here, as with most of the stuff in #2, is that there's a lack of consistency. If Force users have always been capable of projecting these kind of images or communicating across huge distances, why have we never seen active force users do so before? Seems like it would be a pretty useful tool to get a message out to other Jedi when Palpatine was busy having them all executed. If they haven't always been capable of doing so, why are Luke, Rey, and Kylo now suddenly capable? What makes them so much more competent than the myriad of Jedi with years of training that came before? What exactly is this "raw power" that Luke notes which presumably plays some kind of role in all this?

#5: The difference between the Emperor and Snoke is the difference in context. Having some virtually all powerful evil dude in the Original Trilogy works because we know next to nothing about the Sith. There could have been way more than just two Sith, hidden somewhere else, because there were no rules or guidelines established surrounding them. When the prequels roll around, guidelines are established; we know that there are only two Sith, and that they tend to be pretty cutthroat when it comes to the possibility of others infringing on their territory.

When the new trilogy rolls around, having a new, highly experienced force wielder who uses the dark side doesn't make a lot of sense. Where would he have come from? Who would have possibly trained him? I seriously doubt that Palpatine would have been willing to train yet another apprentice in secret. So we have suddenly have this incredibly powerful guy who has seemingly come out of nowhere to take control of the entire First Order and...no explanation whatsoever on where he got any of his powers. And the explanation is necessary here because of the context that the series has now.

As for why I care, it's because it seemingly goes against the established context of the universe. The less consistent your universe is in operating within the parameters it sets for itself, the less believable it becomes. And the less believable it becomes, the less reason I have to care about any of the stakes in these movies. If these all powerful force beings can just spring up out of seemingly nowhere, why should I care at all about what happens to Rey or Kylo? Who's to say that another highly skilled force wielder that we've never heard of and is only appearing now for some reason won't just suddenly pop up to save/destroy the galaxy next? Who's to say that there isn't some other force sensitive kid who will pop up out of nowhere to save the galaxy? When you discard the rules that you set forth for yourself, your universe becomes an utterly arbitrary place where anything can happen for the sake of whatever plot device seems coolest to the director.

This is all meh.

TFA and TLJ are both awesome SW movies. I think no matter what is made you are going to have some people upset because something in the movie doesn't meet their expectations. With TFA it was the ridiculous whining about similarities to prev movies and last fight scenes, with this one... idk actually as I have yet to see many gripes on it.

It felt disjointed and not nearly as well-directed as IV-VII; it suffers from an almost manic schizophrenia, always jumping from set piece to set piece with plot points that are illogical and pointless. Mark Hamill was right about Luke and the ways in which Rian mishandled the character. When people say that it didn't feel like a Star Wars film, they are correct and justified in saying so: if a Saw movie came out and the main characters were Teletubbies who only live to fart in food carts, would it be reasonable to file that under "breaking new ground?" I don't think so. While everything doesn't have to be the same or recycled, there was a universe that spanned 40 years and 8 films. This one was very out of place, and they probably should have stuck with the EU or listened to Luke.

*Spoilers*

1.  Dunno enough about the effects of space to really say anything further, plus I'd need to watch the scene more closely.  Given what we've seen of the force, doesn't seem like this would be a huge stretch.

2.  She doesn't have that ability.  Snoke is the one enabling her to communicate with Kylo.  They clearly explain this.  Not even close to a plothole.

3.  They're just going to be so confused they can't figure out what to do?  Is this the resistance, or a pre-k class?  

Luke didn't know about the crystal things as far as I know, which is why he doesn't mention it.  He's trusting that the rebellion would figure something out.  They already know that they can't fight the First Order.  They've literally spent the whole movie trying to get away from them.   That's the whole point of the movie.  Even if Luke did have some magic super force power (he made it pretty clear to Leia that wasn't his goal), they would still need to leave since the first order knew they were there.  Really no other option, and no benefit to staying.

And in a dramatic moment like that, the less said the better.  Definitely cooler that way.  Plus Luke has been in hiding for several years (not exactly the best social graces) and he was kind of worried about facing his old student and his impending death.  We can forgive him if his actions are somewhat erratic.

4.  Force users don't project themselves to communicate because it literally kills them, or they have to be dead first.  Also, it was developed by Quigon, and as far as we know, only Yoda, Obiwan, and Anakin knew how to do it.  

They don't communicate telepathically because they cannot.  Snoke is the only one to demonstrate that ability, and it's limited to Rey and Ren who had already connected with eachother's minds in TFA.  

5.  At no point are Snoke or Kylo Ren ever stated to be Sith.  I actually don't believe they are or Kylo Ren would be Darth something.  And Snoke seems to be training more than one person.  

As for where he came from, he came from somewhere.  Seriously, the Galaxy is a really big place.  We've seen in the original movies, and Rogue One, that knowledge of the Jedi and the Force wasn't something that was lost to the galaxy, and there were force sensitive people after the death of the Jedi order.  There's nothing about another dark side force user that violates any rule.  When you have a universe the size of this, it would be surprising if there were not other characters in the fringes doing something.  Franchises of this size and scale are constantly introducing more heroes and villains.  And unless it's really relevant to the story, they don't always make a big fuss about where hey come from.   Sometimes they intentionally leave it a mystery. I can name literally hundreds of examples of this.  

And, Snoke's origin really doesn't matter.  What aspect of the story, aside from his origin itself, would be affected by how Snoke came to power?  How would any of the events of the movie play out differently?  I'd be fine with them doing a side story about it, cause I'm somewhat curious, but it really has no bearing on the story.






If these are your ideas of plotholes, then you're misusing the term.  Perhaps you'd like these things explained more in depth, and if that's the kind of storytelling you prefer, then that's fine.  But nothing about any of this (except maybe #1) actually doesn't make sense or go against any of the world's rules.

There's a difference between keeping in line with the canon while going in a different direction and completely changing the tone of the series and disrespecting the original characters. I'd be mad if a lord of the rings sequel turned into a slapstick comedy, for example.

Then let me address this before going back to tackle the actual points, because I really don't think I'm misusing the term at all.

To quote Wikipedia (which admittedly isn't perfect but I think this definition is reasonable): A plothole is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline. I would also add onto that things that contradict plain, common sense, but I suppose you're welcome to dispute that addition.

Now, you can argue whether my arguments are right or not, but if you do accept that my argumentation is correct, then I don't see any way that you cannot consider these plot holes. If Snoke's origins make no sense given the lore that was built up in the prequels, that is an event that contradicts earlier statements in the Star Wars storyline. If the force acts inconsistently compared with previous films, that is a plothole, because it contradicts how the force is shown to work previously. Etc. etc.

To the other points:

1) I feel like this is a pretty significant stretch, especially if Leia is unconscious. Admittedly what the force allows its users to do is so vaguely defined that it's hard to say what is or isn't feasible, but I think you'd see more usage of that in the series. A field that entirely negates the vacuum of space would have to be pretty strong, and it seems like it would have been used before.

2) I guess I missed that explanation, but it just backs the plot issue up to a previous point, i.e. Snoke's origin. But more on that in Point 5.

3) Given that not five minutes earlier a Resistance fighter crashed her ship into a friendly ship to stop him from taking out an enemy cannon, and only an hour ago had two coups back to back, I don't think the kindergarden label is inaccurate. And, again, why take the chance? The resistance is scared, many of their members are clearly not thinking very straight, and they're backed into a corner. They're probably not in the best state of mind. Why would you assume that they would be thinking logically when you can just, with a single sentence, ensure that they get what you're doing?

And the idea of Luke just acting erratically is a poor excuse at best. If he was capable of formulating a plan like that and having a last, meaningful conversation with his sister, I think his mental condition was intact enough to simply say "Hey I'm stalling them, make a run for it."

#4: Maybe I missed this, but...when was it mentioned that Qui-Gon developed the technique? At the end of Episode 3, Yoda talks about communicating with the dead, but that doesn't seem like the same thing. And, on top of that, it brings up another issue...

#5: If Snoke wields this long-distance communication power which, according to you, was exclusive to Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Yoda, then where did he get it? 

The knowledge of the Jedi and Force was pretty much reduced to myth status, if A New Hope is anything to go by. Han disregards it as superstition when he first meets Luke and Obi-Wan.

As for other individuals, granted, there are plenty of force sensitive people. But Snoke, even if he isn't explicitly stated to be a Sith, is very much skilled with the dark side of the force. That takes training, and there aren't exactly a ton of people who are offering lessons in force wielding out there.

Again, why this all matters is the stakes that the universe operates by. If your universe is filled with gaping plotholes, then it's just inconsistent. To quote my previous post: "The less consistent your universe is in operating within the parameters it sets for itself, the less believable it becomes. And the less believable it becomes, the less reason I have to care about any of the stakes in these movies. If these all powerful force beings can just spring up out of seemingly nowhere, why should I care at all about what happens to Rey or Kylo? Who's to say that another highly skilled force wielder that we've never heard of and is only appearing now for some reason won't just suddenly pop up to save/destroy the galaxy next? Who's to say that there isn't some other force sensitive kid who will pop up out of nowhere to save the galaxy? When you discard the rules that you set forth for yourself, your universe becomes an utterly arbitrary place where anything can happen for the sake of whatever plot device seems coolest to the director."

People in forums keep saying The Force Awakens is bad which is totally ridiculous, TFA was a spectacularly well done movie with some very obvious flaws in the script, but it was never bad at all, I work in cinema and pretty much all people in the medium I know were very happy of how well the movie was executed and if you look around the vast majority of people and critics thinks is a pretty good movie:

Metacritic: 81
IMDB: 8.1 Among +700.000 votes
Rottentomatoes: 93% on the tomatometer| critic score: 8.2| User score: 8.6 among 220k votes

But the kind of people that thinks they know somethingh about cinema when they clearly don't keep saying that the film is poo, that it was horrible, that it was a disaster... full nonsense if you ask me, but oh well, worse for them.

Are you really trying to say GoTG Vol2 is an artistic movie? Because that's really laughable for a movie that's basically the equivalent of a rollercoaster. And even worse, are you suggesting I don't see the artistic value in movies? You? The guy that thinks GoTG Vol 2 is one of the best movie ever made? My favourite directors include people like Lars Von trier, Igman Bergman, Stanley Kubrick, Spike Jonze, Wong Kar Wai, Zhang Yimou, Michael Haneke, Pedro Almodovar, David Lynch and a long etc, don't you think those guys are artistic and creative enough? The kind of cinema I have always liked is highly artistic, so i really don't know where are you getting that from, in fact you probably haven't seen a single movie of any of those directors, how are you suposed to know what kind of movie has any artistic value to beging with?

Gotg vol 2 is not bad executed from a technical pov is just way dumber than the first one, way more unbalanced and too excesive, at certain points feels like a parody of the franchise, it is still overall a good enternainment but it doesn't reach the impression that the first one left at all, a movie that was very refreshing as a blockbuster to spend the time with friends and eat some popcorns, GoTG is not exactly high level cinema from an artistic pov is just good cinema for evasion, a good spectacle for sure but it barely has any strong artistic value to beging, its pure and simple entertainment and vol 2 is just not as satisfactory in that regard as the first one.

1.  Again, without seeing the scene again, I can't really comment much further.  It depends how long she was out, and I'd still have to double check to see if it was her or Kylo doing it.

2.  It was very explicitly stated.  

3.  I think it was made clear that Finn's plan was not going to work.  I'd also have to watch this scene again, but it didn't seem like he would have made it there, as his ship was already melting on the way.  I'd have to see the scene again, but I'm fairly sure the implication was that he was playing hero for the sake of playing hero, and Rose saves him from an ultimately doomed plan.  

As you point out, Luke had a meaningful conversation with his sister.  And what did he say in that conversation?  He said, "nobody is ever gone" (or something to that effect) before giving her Han's dice.  The implication is obviously that people live on in our memories.  Why give her them at that moment?  Obviously, to let Leia know that he doesn't plan on making out alive.  It's a more subtle, more aesthetic, and more memorable way to express his plan.  

Leia knows Luke doesn't intend to make it out alive.  So, what exactly would she have done?  Luke can trust that Leia has common sense and is going to figure leave.  And also, let's keep in mind, that Leia is literally the only person there who Luke knows and is the leader of the resistance.  It would be weird for him to strike up conversations with a bunch of new folks.

I'm not saying it wouldn't have made more sense to say his plan explicitly, because it would have.  It would have also been far less interesting.  What was done still falls well within the realm of suspension of disbelief.

4.  In the end of episode three, after Yoda says this, I'm 99% sure Obi Wan name drops Qui Gon.  But, whether he does or not, it's clear what they're talking about.  It's the very end of the prequels, so there's not going to be any payoff in that series, which means they're referring to something from the originals.   Since the force apparitions are the only thing we see that relates to communing with the dead, that must be what they're talking about. 

5.  I never said that was exclusive to them.  Neither Anakin, Yoda, or Obi Wan seemed to have the ability to communicate directly over a distance, aside from being dead.

Where does he get the ability?  By practicing I guess.  I'm not sure what you're expecting here.  Are you looking for something like Naruto, where they introduce a new technique, and then have a 20 minute flashback for making of the technique?  Like, a scene of him meditating and practicing telepathy? If that's the kind of storytelling you prefer fine, but that doesn't make this a plothole.  If we did it that way, they'd never be able to introduce any new kinds of force techniques, like force lightning, in Episode VI which was also introduced suddenly and surprisingly.  We haven't seen every potential force ability yet, and only a few that involve the dark side. 

We also don't know that other people can't do this.  It's not a particularly useful technique.  They already have the technology to communicate over long distance which is far simpler.  It's only used here because the Emperor is using it to draw Rey to him, and because Rey and Kylo have a special connection.  But it's not like a replacement for cell phones. 

Jedi being a myth makes about as much sense as the 1960s being a myth to us.  Luke was born at the end of the Clone Wars, and he's in his mid 20s by the end of ROTJ.  There have been 30 years in the interim, so we're at most 60 years removed from the Jedi order being a pretty big thing in the galaxy.

  At the beginning of a New Hope, there are people alive who have seen and interacted with Jedi.  Leia's father is one, and Jabba is another.  And when Jabba coins the term "Jedi mind trick", no body seems to doubt Jedis are an actual thing.  In Rogue one we see that there is a whole sect of monk like people who know of and use the force. A random smuggled may not know,  but the even if there was a concerted effort from the Republic to stifle knowledge of the Jedi, it would have been nearly impossible to do so. 

It's never stated, but Snoke's design definitely conveys age.  He was quite likely alive during the Clone Wars.  It's not unlikely at all that he'd have access to information regarding the force.

You repeated yourself again, but these still aren't plotholes.  Some of these things actually were clearly explained but you missed the explanation.  The one you keep coming back to is Snoke, but that's based on the faulty assumption that in a galaxy of millions, there can only be two people utilizing the dark side of the force, but that is never stated.  It in fact seems highly unlikely that in a galaxy of at least millions (presumably trillions) there would be only two people.

What exactly was inventive about the prequels?  They vary more from the original trilogy than TFA did, but in terms of overall storytelling, I don't see much going on that was all that novel.