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Mom wants 'sexist' fairy tale banned

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o_O.Q said:
Torillian said:

I have a wife of almost 3 years that I asked if I could kiss for the first time on our third date. After that it was ok but I didn't want any awkwardness around the first kiss. I'd be curious to see polling data to show that women in general find such a thing repulsive and I just got lucky. 

i acknowledge that behavior is not a universal thing... but i think there are general trends to behavior

Absolutely, and claims about general trends require more than "that's my experience" unless you've romantically interacted with a statistically significant number of women. That's why I'd be curious to see polling on this topic, but I haven't found any yet. 



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jason1637 said:
o_O.Q said:

" means that feminism is going to hurt women"

yes denial that sexism is an intrinsic part of society hurts women... because women often have different needs than men and acknowledging that is by definition sexist since sexism by definition is to discriminate based on sex

if every man for example started to become timid and asked for consent to kiss in every interaction with a woman, that hurts women would you agree?

 

" So because a Women thinks a story is offensive and sexist" 

anything that differentiates between men and women is going to be sexist... that's the meaning of that word, which seems to be lost on a lot of people now

can you logically explain how the story has offended you?

 

"I'd like to say that some Men regard women as repulsive when asking for kisses"

well if a guy finds a woman repulsive then i'm pretty sure he's not going to ask for a kiss...

"yes denial that sexism is an intrinsic part of society hurts women... because women often have different needs than men and acknowledging that is by definition sexist since sexism by definition is to discriminate based on sex"

Obviously there will always be some sort of discrimination between the two different sexes, but feminists are trying to limit that as much as possible and allow women to be equal as men around the world. A world with less discrimination between the two sexes sounds pretty good imo.

"if every man for example started to become timid and asked for consent to kiss in every interaction with a woman, that hurts women would you agree?"

No, it doesn't hurt women. 

"can you logically explain how the story has offended you?"

A Woman needed a man to save her.

"well if a guy finds a woman repulsive then i'm pretty sure he's not going to ask for a kiss..."

The point of my comment was that being repulsive to kisses happens on both sides and it's not only a woman thing.

 

"Obviously there will always be some sort of discrimination between the two different sexes, but feminists are trying to limit that as much as possible"

and that is starting to cause problems because the assumption is that men and women are fundamentally the same when they're not

 

"allow women to be equal as men around the world."

really? feminism is active primarily in first world countries where women have had equal rights for decades now... compare that to its presence in areas like saudi arabia for example

 

"No, it doesn't hurt women. "

ok, i accept your perspective on that

 

"A Woman needed a man to save her."

who is more likely to save who in a dangerous situation? a man or a woman?

with all of the recent sexual assault stories, it is primarily men that have been called upon to intervene, can you explain the reason for that?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/male-bystander-intervention-is-key-to-ending-sexual-assault/article21418259/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/undoing-unawareness-men-can-help-fight-sexual-assault_us_579ff853e4b07066ba1f896b

http://www.campusanswers.com/campus-sexual-assault-men-allies/

 

and i'd just like to reflect on the irony of claiming that men and women are the same as many of these people do while also claiming that its offensive to see a man saving a woman... you get contradictions like that because at the subconscious level no one really believes a lot of this nonsense that's being pushed

 

"The point of my comment was that being repulsive to kisses happens on both sides and it's not only a woman thing."

when did i say that its a woman only thing?

Last edited by o_O.Q - on 25 November 2017

This woman is a waste of carbon...



o_O.Q said:
jason1637 said:

"yes denial that sexism is an intrinsic part of society hurts women... because women often have different needs than men and acknowledging that is by definition sexist since sexism by definition is to discriminate based on sex"

Obviously there will always be some sort of discrimination between the two different sexes, but feminists are trying to limit that as much as possible and allow women to be equal as men around the world. A world with less discrimination between the two sexes sounds pretty good imo.

"if every man for example started to become timid and asked for consent to kiss in every interaction with a woman, that hurts women would you agree?"

No, it doesn't hurt women. 

"can you logically explain how the story has offended you?"

A Woman needed a man to save her.

"well if a guy finds a woman repulsive then i'm pretty sure he's not going to ask for a kiss..."

The point of my comment was that being repulsive to kisses happens on both sides and it's not only a woman thing.

 

"Obviously there will always be some sort of discrimination between the two different sexes, but feminists are trying to limit that as much as possible"

and that is starting to cause problems because the assumption is that men and women are fundamentally the same when they're not

 

"allow women to be equal as men around the world."

really? feminism is active primarily in first world countries where women have had equal rights for decades now... compare that to its presence in areas like saudi arabia for example

 

"No, it doesn't hurt women. "

ok, i accept your perspective on that

 

"A Woman needed a man to save her."

who is more likely to save who in a dangerous situation? a man or a woman?

with all of the recent sexual assault stories, it is primarily men that have been called upon to intervene, can you explain the reason for that?

http://www.campusanswers.com/campus-sexual-assault-men-allies/

 

"The point of my comment was that being repulsive to kisses happens on both sides and it's not only a woman thing."

when did i say that its a woman only thing?

"and that is starting to cause problems because the assumption is that men and women are fundamentally the same when they're not"

What type of problems?

"really? feminism is active primarily in first world countries where women have had equal rights for decades now... compare that to its presence in areas like saudi arabia for example"

Feminism is very alive in first world countries, but its still a worldwide movement.

"who is more likely to save who in a dangerous situation? a man or a woman?"

Depends on the situation and the skill of that, women or men.

"with all of the recent sexual assault stories, it is primarily men that have been called upon to intervene, can you explain the reason for that?"

I think people in power have used their influence to try to get away with sexual assault of other people and it just happens to be that more men are in roles where they have more authority than the women and in some cases men they assualt.

"when did i say that its a woman only thing?"

You didn't, but you didnt point out that men do the same thing so i just brought it up.




jason1637 said:
o_O.Q said:

 

"Obviously there will always be some sort of discrimination between the two different sexes, but feminists are trying to limit that as much as possible"

and that is starting to cause problems because the assumption is that men and women are fundamentally the same when they're not

 

"allow women to be equal as men around the world."

really? feminism is active primarily in first world countries where women have had equal rights for decades now... compare that to its presence in areas like saudi arabia for example

 

"No, it doesn't hurt women. "

ok, i accept your perspective on that

 

"A Woman needed a man to save her."

who is more likely to save who in a dangerous situation? a man or a woman?

with all of the recent sexual assault stories, it is primarily men that have been called upon to intervene, can you explain the reason for that?

http://www.campusanswers.com/campus-sexual-assault-men-allies/

 

"The point of my comment was that being repulsive to kisses happens on both sides and it's not only a woman thing."

when did i say that its a woman only thing?

"and that is starting to cause problems because the assumption is that men and women are fundamentally the same when they're not"

What type of problems?

"really? feminism is active primarily in first world countries where women have had equal rights for decades now... compare that to its presence in areas like saudi arabia for example"

Feminism is very alive in first world countries, but its still a worldwide movement.

"who is more likely to save who in a dangerous situation? a man or a woman?"

Depends on the situation and the skill of that, women or men.

"with all of the recent sexual assault stories, it is primarily men that have been called upon to intervene, can you explain the reason for that?"

I think people in power have used their influence to try to get away with sexual assault of other people and it just happens to be that more men are in roles where they have more authority than the women and in some cases men they assualt.

"when did i say that its a woman only thing?"

You didn't, but you didnt point out that men do the same thing so i just brought it up.


"What type of problems?"

problems such as a woman being offended by something as innocuous as sleeping beauty for example

 

"Feminism is very alive in first world countries, but its still a worldwide movement."

nice evasion lol

 

"Depends on the situation and the skill of that, women or men."

you haven't answered my question... generally who is more likely to save who? or are you claiming that its the same across the board? 

 

"I think people in power have used their influence to try to get away with sexual assault of other people and it just happens to be that more men are in roles where they have more authority than the women and in some cases men they assualt."

lol you're purposefully mischaracterising what i've said

its not that "people in power" are being called on to intervene its men regardless of their influence and power being called on to intervene and i'm asking you what the reason for that is

 

"you didnt point out that men do the same thing so i just brought it up."

given the context, why would i? it wouldn't have been relevant to do so



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Squall_Leonhart said:
This woman is a waste of carbon...

People feel that threatened by the suggestion that there are issues with Sleeping Beauty? That's what people do, they analysis works and compare them with the context of the time and the current context. Also, I gave a quote that clearly showed that they didn't want it banned.



Isn't it commom knowledge that basically all farytales are originally, horryfyingly fucked up?
Were talking, abduction, forced marriage, rape, cannibalism, murder, torture and all sorts of fucked up shit.

Discussing the framing of media and the possible influence that media can have on us has merit, sure, but instead of trying to call for a ban why not...you know, TALK to your children about topics that you or they might find upsetting or problematic?

Let them deal with challeging media, help them to draw conclusions and hopefully some of them will grow up and produce better stuff and be a more critical audience.



Fairy tales are SUPER sanitized from what they used to be, and that's still not good enough anymore. Can't wait until they come back with gender-fluid pronouns with characters that question the ethics of hugging each other, let alone kissing.



VGPolyglot said:
Squall_Leonhart said:
This woman is a waste of carbon...

People feel that threatened by the suggestion that there are issues with Sleeping Beauty? That's what people do, they analysis works and compare them with the context of the time and the current context. Also, I gave a quote that clearly showed that they didn't want it banned.

Isn't she the one who feels threatened first?  And no, she may not want to have it out and out banned, most likely because she knows she would fail, but she wants to have a long-winded, pointless talk about it.  I guess people should stop doing mouth to mouth resuscitation, too.  They aren't giving their consent after all.

jason1637 said:

"and that is starting to cause problems because the assumption is that men and women are fundamentally the same when they're not"

What type of problems?

"really? feminism is active primarily in first world countries where women have had equal rights for decades now... compare that to its presence in areas like saudi arabia for example"

Feminism is very alive in first world countries, but its still a worldwide movement.

"who is more likely to save who in a dangerous situation? a man or a woman?"

Depends on the situation and the skill of that, women or men.

"with all of the recent sexual assault stories, it is primarily men that have been called upon to intervene, can you explain the reason for that?"

I think people in power have used their influence to try to get away with sexual assault of other people and it just happens to be that more men are in roles where they have more authority than the women and in some cases men they assualt.

"when did i say that its a woman only thing?"

You didn't, but you didnt point out that men do the same thing so i just brought it up.


The problem with feminism is it no longer has a place in modern countries.  The original goals of feminism were noble, as women were 2nd class citizens.  And their fight was hard.  News flash, they won and women aren't seen that way anymore by the vast majority.  Sadly, modern feminists want to make a name for themselves, like the originators, but they don't want to have to fight too hard to do it.  So, they won't take on hard fights, like slavery, which has more people (men and women) enslaved than at even the heights of the old slave trade, or how women are still treated like 2nd class citizens in many Muslim countries.  No, instead they take the easy things, like finding offensive things in centuries old literature, forcing people to pay for their birth control (cause I guess they need men to pay for them after all?) or the non-existent wage gap. 

There's a reason people, even ones that praise the original feminists, look down on feminists of today.  They're cowards and nowhere near as strong and independent as they think they are.

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 25 November 2017

Someone prevent her from reading the norse sagas.



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