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Forums - Politics Discussion - Mass shooting Las Vegas

SpokenTruth said:
Superman4 said:

Not lying at all and wasnt "caught" trying to deny anything. Its not my fault you didnt understand what I was saying. Hillarys statement was on banning silencers, she is accusing the Republicans of making it easier to get them and is using it to get the bill currently up to go in her favor.

Superman4 said:

Thats because the people with sense understand the idiot Democrats will immedietly go off on some tangent about banning guns. The latest is on Silencers, even though a Silencer has absolutly nothing to do with this issue, its a bill they have on the floor and will use whatever they can to get it through.

----

Who are "they"? In this context, you are clearly referencing the Democrats.  As in they have a bill on the floor.  And you can't claim you meant Hillary because she's never been a memeber of the House.  And if you did mean Hillary and you did mean the Republicans, you had a very poor way of addressing it and that is your fault.

Don't know who he meant, or what bill is on the floor or not.

But Hillary did tweet about banning silencers.

1. Silencers aren't called that. They are suppressors. As many have pointed out, they are still insanely loud. The whole James Bond or any movie person using a silencer and it being quit is a hollywood fabrication.

2. There has been like 2 homicides commited in like the last 10 years that involved a suppresser, and one of them was hand made one.

3. Suppressors do not work like at all on automatic rifles, which is what he used. They heat up and cause to many malfunctions. Nobody really makes them at all for those types of guns because of that.

4. He didn't use one and thus it should have no bearing on this situtation. Nothing should ever be banned on a "what if" scenerio imo.



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Superman4 said:
Puppyroach said:

But the guy didn't have molotov cocktails now did he? He had 10 rifles, why? Because they are easily accesible and have a specific purpose. Remove those and he would have to go to greater lengths to do what he did.

Yes, buy them illegaly. So much harder. 

Actually, yes. Because that atleast forces the person to commit an illegal act and therefore increases the chance of him/her being arrested early on.



SpokenTruth said:
irstupid said:

Don't know who he meant, or what bill is on the floor or not.

But Hillary did tweet about banning silencers.

1. Silencers aren't called that. They are suppressors. As many have pointed out, they are still insanely loud. The whole James Bond or any movie person using a silencer and it being quit is a hollywood fabrication.

2. There has been like 2 homicides commited in like the last 10 years that involved a suppresser, and one of them was hand made one.

3. Suppressors do not work like at all on automatic rifles, which is what he used. They heat up and cause to many malfunctions. Nobody really makes them at all for those types of guns because of that.

4. He didn't use one and thus it should have no bearing on this situtation. Nothing should ever be banned on a "what if" scenerio imo.

Agreed on all but it's his inability to correctly say what he meant that is the issue.  He meant Hillary, never said Hillary until later.  He meant Republican bill but called it a Democrat bill.  And Hillary tweeting is hardly the same as actual Democrats in the House voting.  If he can't debate from a position of facts or without twisting it to sound like something else, it's not going to go well for him.

Last I checked multiple Democrats spoke up supporting Hillary’s comments. House Democrats as well as just Democrats in general. No I didn’t go into detail about the entire bill because It doesn’t matter, the issue is the Democrats idiocy when it comes to anything gun related and the insistence on passing needless laws.



Puppyroach said:
Superman4 said:

Yes, buy them illegaly. So much harder. 

Actually, yes. Because that atleast forces the person to commit an illegal act and therefore increases the chance of him/her being arrested early on.

Actually no. I could have a fully auto AK or AR in my living room tonight if I wanted to spend the money. Both of which are highly illegal in my glorious state of California, as are the high capacity mags I could have delivered with them. In order for me to get a legal rifle or handgun I would need to pass a written test to obtain a firearm permit unless I already had an up to date one, then go through the waiting period at the gun dealer before I could take the gun home. 

Obtaining illegal firearms is much easier and faster than going through legal channels. 



So as it turns out, the man had a legal rifle with a bump stock modification. So, seeing what happened here, it is at least logical to make bump stocks illegal. Why? One, they aren't necessary for day to day hunting or home protection. Two, in the wrong hands they turn crazy people from murders into killing machines. If we can't come up with a legit background system to protect us from people with real issues, we can at least stop them from killing us all. I think we can all agree on that.  Also, selling illegal auto weapons should be vigiously procecuted.  Thats just common sense.  If people can buy autos, thats a problem.  Lets solve it. 



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CosmicSex said:

So as it turns out, the man had a legal rifle with a bump stock modification. So, seeing what happened here, it is at least logical to make bump stocks illegal. Why? One, they aren't necessary for day to day hunting or home protection. Two, in the wrong hands they turn crazy people from murders into killing machines. If we can't come up with a legit background system to protect us from people with real issues, we can at least stop them from killing us all. I think we can all agree on that.  Also, selling illegal auto weapons should be vigiously procecuted.  Thats just common sense.  If people can buy autos, thats a problem.  Lets solve it. 

That is a tricky thing to do though.

So it was a legal gun, with a legal modification on it.

I see lots of things used for illegal purposes that are sold legally in the open. Such as marijuana pipes in places where it is not legal. They sell them as for use with cigarettes, even though everyone knows that 99% of the time they are used for marijuana. Or how abou the whole piracy of video games. Someone says they are using a legal emulator, or legally hacking their OWN system to do what they want on the system. They are not doing anything illegal until they use it to play pirated games.

Same with this bump stock. I don't see how it is illegal until it is added to a gun making that gun now a fully automatic gun, something illegal. Before that though, it is not illegal. It's tough to ban parts to a whole.



VGPolyglot said:
gatito said:
If you feel like you need to own a killing machine for any reason you're scum and a monster.

So, if you live in a very dangerous neighborhood and want to protect yourself, you're scum and a monster?

Yes because a machine gun is never necessary ever.



You either ban all guns, or forget about changing the laws that exist now. No amount of lesser guns will fix the problem of using a weapon of some sort to injure or kill another person.

Just imagine a similar situation, but pretend the shooter lived for guns and was an ace shot, but was using a normal everyday, non auto, non semi auto weapon, that was purchased on the black market, and only managed to kill 25 people and injure 50. Would this be ok?

No. Yet people would still be screaming to ban those specific types of guns, or ban guns altogether.

This situation has very little to do with guns, of any type, and everything to do with this man's state of mind. Since he clearly planned and decided to take a bunch of people's lives for whatever reason, he would have found another way if he could not use a gun.

Envision the day that guns and blades no longer exist in the public's hands. Yet you continue to see the same type of events occurring due to mass stabbings with knives. Are we going to make it a nightmare for a chef or everyday person to get their hands on a knife just because a few people decided to use them as a weapon against another person?

This incident is terrible, and I feel horrible for those poor people, but I don't feel anymore sorry for them then I do for people who are killed by drunk drivers. Should we ban alcohol? Vehicles?

The answer isn't taking away potential weapons, it's about the people who may use them. This of course is something that is almost impossible to solve 100% unfortunately. It is however where everyone's focus should be.



Soundwave said:
Lawlight said:

What are you rambling on about? We still don't know the motive behind this. But I bet you didn't go and such a rant after the Orlando shooting ot am I incorrect?

I'm "rambling on" about the hypocrisy in how these situations are dealt with based on who the shooter is. 

Even in case of Orlando, IMO there are strong signs that was a "lone nut" shooter, dude visited a gay bar for several years, had dating profiles on gay websites, but is also an ISIS member? More likely he wanted to go on a shooting spree and just pinned the whole thing on being an religious extremist. 

But the difference is an entire group is indicted/judged on the actions of one person in those situations, but if it's a "crazy lone white guy" ... it's a completely different reaction especially from the political class in this country. "Nothing can be done, nothing to see here folkes, just send your prayers" blah, blah, blah. 

And what about the fact that the Orlando shooter stated that it was retaliation for ISIS members being killed? He may have been a lone wolf but we know what motivated him - the religion of peace.



newwil7l said:
VGPolyglot said:

So, if you live in a very dangerous neighborhood and want to protect yourself, you're scum and a monster?

Yes because a machine gun is never necessary ever.

He wasn't talking about a machine gun but all guns.