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Forums - General Discussion - Explosion at Manchester Arena 22+ dead 50+ injured.

Eagle367 on 23 May 2017
Aeolus451 said:
Eagle367 said:

http://studies.aljazeera.net/en/reports/2016/09/muslim-minorities-peril-rise-buddhist-violence-asia-160908090547506.html

Most of the stuff you said are prohibited for Muslims only. In some sects apostasy is not prohibited. Plus ho gave you the flying idea that atheism is prohibited? During the Caliphates Muslims, Christians, atheists, Jews and others lived in the empire and all the other groups could drink and do what they wanted because they were given the right to live according to their beliefs. Muslims and Islam gave women right hundreds of years before you people did in a land where they used to be buried alive and sold as things. Muslims were also tolerant and Islam teaches tolerance. In Islam you cannot be an oppressor if you are following the religion. If we followed Islam forgiveness is the best thing we can give to anybody for any wrongdoings. If we followed Islam then we are not allowed to force our ideals on anyone certainly not commit suicide blasts since it is zulm to yourself and to many other people. Suicide in general is prohibited. Killing one innocent is compared to killing all of humanity in Islam. In Islam, even during war you are not allowed to attack homes, innocents even not trees, crops and shrubbery and animals. Sharia is not even a law the legal side of Islam is fiqh. Sharia is a way of living and is different for every sect. For very conservative wahàbists sure it is oppression but for sufis who are not very extreme in their views, it is completely different. Islam is not the issue it the conditions of war and the culture inside the middle east that is the issue.Its their culture and the way they are taught to think or the way they are brainwashed by the terrorists. The first people that want these groups gone are Muslims since they are the ones most killed and whose hones are most destroyed and yet the largest victim of middle eastern terrorism somehow always her blamed for it as well. These scums are just a couple thousand while Muslims around the world are 1.2billion. And one last thing, in islam, if you are living in a land under non Muslim law the only options allowed are either to follow that law or leave the land. Unless you are being attacked or oppressed you are not allowed to take any action and even if you take action you are required to stop as soon as the oppression ends

Tell me how did the survey get the opini of Palestine where Israel continually bombs hospitals and schools there? How do you conduct an accurate survey in a literal war zone would you care to elaborate? Lebanon is  another place as well as Nigeria where I seriously question the accuracy of these surveys. Plus in each country the most you could have surveyed is a couple thousand people so still not the millions you tout. I mean I am in Pakistan and I've never even heard of such a survey ever being conducted. Plus I thought we were talking about the ideology of Islam here not the thought process of Muslims? In Islam even doing harm to your body is considered haram for most sects. Suicide is not in any way appropriate especially for the ideology of Islam which shuns it.

Aeolus451 said:
mountaindewslave said:

dude not sure what your point was with that graph because those numbers are terrifying. The concept that 30% of Palestenians were willing to say that suicide bombing was okay in a survey is crazy. if even 10% of Middle Easterns think that then that would be millions upon millions of people who are fine with that sort of thing.

 

Now obviously this sort of extremism is more a result of the culture and pressure and regimes....  I sympathize with a lot of people in parts of the world where you can be killed if you speak against the group in power. But it doesn't make it any less concerning 

Well the point of it was to dispell the myth that there's only a few thousand islamic terrorists. Out of a religion of 1.2 billion, there's likely millions of extremists within the religion around the world. I'm not saying the whole religion is like that but a good portion of it is.

I can understand why muslims try to hide or convince others that is not true. No group likes to admit that they have more than few bad apples in them but the left for some reason is trying to obscure the whole truth about Islam. I also don't understand why they're against vetting them much more than we do now. Here's some data on this that is also just as disturbing. 

 

The most interesting parts of these are the "favorable" and "don't know" percentages. 

Let's see Israel terrorizes Palestine and hamas fights back so hamas is a terrorist while Israel is not. Of course when you include hamas which are generally considered freedom fighters of Palestine to Muslims around the world unlike how the west sees them as terrorists you are going to get mixed results. Also of note the better the condition of a country the less it seems to even care about the subject and rejects it. Plus these surveys are at best conducted for thousands of people not millions so they do not represent the majority or the percentage they show cause the way you ask stions and the people you ask them from influence results. And no way in hell shitty places or literal war zones like Palestine, Lebanon and Nigeria can be places for accurate surveys



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StarOcean on 23 May 2017

I'm surprised we dont know who did it yet. Usually in these cases we know by now



Random_Matt on 23 May 2017
StarOcean said:
I'm surprised we dont know who did it yet. Usually in these cases we know by now

They do, info not released yet. But have made an arrest.



Aeolus451 on 23 May 2017
Eagle367 said:
Aeolus451 said:

Tell me how did the survey get the opini of Palestine where Israel continually bombs hospitals and schools there? How do you conduct an accurate survey in a literal war zone would you care to elaborate? Lebanon is  another place as well as Nigeria where I seriously question the accuracy of these surveys. Plus in each country the most you could have surveyed is a couple thousand people so still not the millions you tout. I mean I am in Pakistan and I've never even heard of such a survey ever being conducted. Plus I thought we were talking about the ideology of Islam here not the thought process of Muslims? In Islam even doing harm to your body is considered haram for most sects. Suicide is not in any way appropriate especially for the ideology of Islam which shuns it.

Aeolus451 said:

Well the point of it was to dispell the myth that there's only a few thousand islamic terrorists. Out of a religion of 1.2 billion, there's likely millions of extremists within the religion around the world. I'm not saying the whole religion is like that but a good portion of it is.

I can understand why muslims try to hide or convince others that is not true. No group likes to admit that they have more than few bad apples in them but the left for some reason is trying to obscure the whole truth about Islam. I also don't understand why they're against vetting them much more than we do now. Here's some data on this that is also just as disturbing. 

 

The most interesting parts of these are the "favorable" and "don't know" percentages. 

Let's see Israel terrorizes Palestine and hamas fights back so hamas is a terrorist while Israel is not. Of course when you include hamas which are generally considered freedom fighters of Palestine to Muslims around the world unlike how the west sees them as terrorists you are going to get mixed results. Also of note the better the condition of a country the less it seems to even care about the subject and rejects it. Plus these surveys are at best conducted for thousands of people not millions so they do not represent the majority or the percentage they show cause the way you ask stions and the people you ask them from influence results. And no way in hell shitty places or literal war zones like Palestine, Lebanon and Nigeria can be places for accurate surveys

Take it up with them. They're respected internationally and used as a source on statistics by news organizations across the world.

I'm just tired of people trying to obscure the whole truth about it intentionally or through sheer ignorance. 

Here's the thing. If muslims are serious about getting along with the rest of the world, they need to reform the religion, they can't do that without being honest about a certain sizable portion of it's believers that world has the problem with and helping everyone in dealing with them.



thismeintiel on 23 May 2017
Eagle367 said:
Aeolus451 said:

Tell me how did the survey get the opini of Palestine where Israel continually bombs hospitals and schools there? How do you conduct an accurate survey in a literal war zone would you care to elaborate? Lebanon is  another place as well as Nigeria where I seriously question the accuracy of these surveys. Plus in each country the most you could have surveyed is a couple thousand people so still not the millions you tout. I mean I am in Pakistan and I've never even heard of such a survey ever being conducted. Plus I thought we were talking about the ideology of Islam here not the thought process of Muslims? In Islam even doing harm to your body is considered haram for most sects. Suicide is not in any way appropriate especially for the ideology of Islam which shuns it.

Aeolus451 said:

Well the point of it was to dispell the myth that there's only a few thousand islamic terrorists. Out of a religion of 1.2 billion, there's likely millions of extremists within the religion around the world. I'm not saying the whole religion is like that but a good portion of it is.

I can understand why muslims try to hide or convince others that is not true. No group likes to admit that they have more than few bad apples in them but the left for some reason is trying to obscure the whole truth about Islam. I also don't understand why they're against vetting them much more than we do now. Here's some data on this that is also just as disturbing. 

 

The most interesting parts of these are the "favorable" and "don't know" percentages. 

Let's see Israel terrorizes Palestine and hamas fights back so hamas is a terrorist while Israel is not. Of course when you include hamas which are generally considered freedom fighters of Palestine to Muslims around the world unlike how the west sees them as terrorists you are going to get mixed results. Also of note the better the condition of a country the less it seems to even care about the subject and rejects it. Plus these surveys are at best conducted for thousands of people not millions so they do not represent the majority or the percentage they show cause the way you ask stions and the people you ask them from influence results. And no way in hell shitty places or literal war zones like Palestine, Lebanon and Nigeria can be places for accurate surveys

Yes, blame the victims who just retaliate when random rockets are shot into their country.  Not the people who shot those rockets from and house themselves in hospitals and schools, using them as human shields.  They know full well that when Israel hits them anyway, they'll get the sympathy of the Left.  

Of course, for some Islam is never at fault, so they'll find poor excuses for how they think or what they do.  All that can be found in the Quran.   Mostly the part about how non-Muslims are scum and are either to be killed, made a slave, or pay a fee to you just to continue existing.  Wisely, there are some moderates who choose to look at the positive passages and live by those, while condemning these attacks.  But, the Progressives wish to ignore those people and instead come up with more shitty excuses.  And then support Muslims who are sympathetic to the attackers plight/cause, while ignoring the Muslims who agree that there is a problem in their own religion.



 

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numberwang on 23 May 2017

ISIS claims responsibility and victory over "crusaders"


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAgn5L0W0AEFLYn.jpg


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/manchester-arena-attack-isis-responsible-claim-suicide-bombing-islamic-state-ariana-grande-concert-a7751221.html



Barkley on 23 May 2017
thismeintiel said:

All that can be found in the Quran.   Mostly the part about how non-Muslims are scum and are either to be killed, made a slave, or pay a fee to you just to continue existing. 

I'd be interested if you could send me a link to that passage from the Quran, never read any of it.

Non-believers or followers being described as bad people is hardly exclusive to Islam, as in most religions if you're not following the practices and obeying the moral rules you are a sinner or whatever.

The difference comes if a religious text actually encourages violence against non-believers.



Ganoncrotch on 23 May 2017

When people suggest that all Islamic people are evil and awful... go and take a look at the victims of this, I'd be fairly sure that the same guys would have issues with the little 8 year old girl who was the second victim of this atrocity, that is what you have to remember, this sort of terrorist attack also kills people that you think are evil because of bias... my god though, I'd be very impressed with anyone able to turn the other cheek when children as young as 8 are the victims of this.

Just going to say, I'm sorry if I'm wrong about the girls background, but yeah I do think she is part of the 1.6b Islamic people on this planet, yeah... think about it almost 1/7th of the population of the planet are this religion, some of the victims are going to follow the faith.



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ArchangelMadzz on 23 May 2017

It's funny how Theresa May will use this to get people to vote for her to put an end to it.

Completely ignoring the fact this AND the London attack happened under her watch, and the UK government has been under Tory rule for the past 7 years and have done nothing.



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numberwang on 23 May 2017
ArchangelMadzz said:
It's funny how Theresa May will use this to get people to vote for her to put an end to it.

Completely ignoring the fact this AND the London attack happened under her watch, and the UK government has been under Tory rule for the past 7 years and have done nothing.

What are they supposed to do? Establish even more of a surveillance state?