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Did Sony make a mistake by be first to release an upgraded console.

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mjk45 said:

 I feel that Sony would have been better served by keeping their powder dry and letting MS make the  first move , that way they could have controlled the power narrative that they held.

No becoz in 2 years they will launch the PS5.

"power narrative" is so 2013-2014 and means nothing this late in the gen, no one's gonna abandon their ecosystems for the remainder of the gen.

I fear for Xbox when PS5 comes with new next gen looking graphics, features, engines etc with the full force of their 1st party studios.

What I hear about Scorpio from DF is that it's really good scaling Xbone engines to 4K, but it's just that, limited by 2013 hardware.



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dont think either the pro or scorpio are gonna sell great, just the slims that will sell great

 

ps and switch.....



Maybe...... But I really want to see how the sales the Scorpio will be. If there is a lot of audience for this.



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Turkish said:
mjk45 said:

 I feel that Sony would have been better served by keeping their powder dry and letting MS make the  first move , that way they could have controlled the power narrative that they held.

No becoz in 2 years they will launch the PS5.

"power narrative" is so 2013-2014 and means nothing this late in the gen, no one's gonna abandon their ecosystemYess for the remainder of the gen.

I fear for Xbox when PS5 comes with new next gen looking graphics, features, engines etc with the full force of their 1st party studios.

What I hear about Scorpio from DF is that it's really good scaling Xbone engines to 4K, but it's just that, limited by 2013 hardware.

Yes, Microsoft is like that jock that thinks is all about power. The console realm has never seen the most powerful platform of the gen win a generation until the PS4. By making seeking the petty fight, they are doubly making this known trend continue. The games, price and marketshare are what matters. The more marketshare Sony gains, the harder it will become for Microsoft even begin to fight back.  Sony will slaughter them with their first, second and third party exclusives, since Microsoft cannot touch any exclusive eastern targeed titles like they did with the 360.



Jranation said:
Maybe...... But I really want to see how the sales the Scorpio will be. If there is a lot of audience for this.

As it with our capitalistic second nature, the price will dictate that. If something premium exists for an audience of enthusiasts it will be only gathered by the few. This is why Sony gave the pro a $400 pricetag. I have a feeling that they know the Pro will become a more attractive console as it edges its way to $299 and eventually $200 by the end of the generation. Microsoft as usual will follow. Some chess pieces never wear out their value. If Microsoft aims high with the price just to say they have the most powerful platform, Sony can easily overshadow the long run price factor with a pro price cut. They dont seem to learn their lesson, having started the gen with a $500 console, and bad mission statement for the prospective userbase and few exclusives to make use of it.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:

Being in second is one thing, but truthfully if Nintendos projections are correct the Xbox could end up  in third if they are successful in outpacing the Wii. If Nintendo comes with what matters, which is games from all angles on a DS level of value from all parties involved Microsoft will be forced to undersrtand what matters. The PSP was doing fine, but Sony spread themselves too thin trying to manage the PSP while its value was commercially eclipsed by the PS3. Sony understood where the handheld was going hence why their version of the switch leaked, which was created before the switch was announced. They Nintendo beat them to the punch. Sometimes thats how technology works and Sony and Nintendo get it. Nintendo danced around the power issue and tapped into their largest audience whilst trying to hold onto the rest who bought Wii's. Its not very different from the Vita, but the difference is Nintendo's first party will be leading the charge with greater vigor than Sony did with the Vita. Sony applied all of their development force behind the PS3. Thats where I believe they failed. Nintendo never faltered there with the DS and had very strong games from square and others as a result.

The Switch is for gamers. The switch is a console and it isnt as the same time. That makes it more for the gaming enthusiast. I havent enjoyed holding a handheld in years and I wanted a Vita, but wisely chose to move past it. The play anywhere angle Sony was pulling with the Vita/ PS3 combo was better implemeted by Nintendo who merely made the handheld the console and once docked output it to as high as 1080p. In conclusion, Nintendo can compete without taking the same games. They are still in the console race, but running with a suit best fitted for themselves to survive and be legitimate in the current gen. All Odyssey, Mario Kart and Zelda BOTW is an amazing leading AAA experience for Nintendo to woo gamers with in the launch year. I am sure E3 will reveal more games. Unless Microsoft is paying up for timed exclusives, the switch (as was said in another post) will be prioritized even over them. The switch could reach second for the gen and Microsoft third as a result. Not saying it is 100% but the way its being projected id say its a possibility.

Even if the Switch manges to outperform the X1, that doesn't mean Switch gets great support by default. The Switch audience won't buy core games like the Xbox audience. DS had a lot of support but there wasn't a ton of quality, it was probably a cheap platform to support. Making Switch games is a different thing, especially if doesn't have the power to easily port games to.

Sony's version of the Switch leaked? But they made Vita anyway? A device that doesn't connect to the TV. Its evident Sony didn't know where the market was going but had ideas.

Nintendo pushes lower power machines because its cheaper, lower risk, and its primarily exclusive content that pushes hardware anyway.

I agree Sony's primary focus was PS3 over They still made an effort to get notable content on that device but they also turned people off with the dumb gimmicks especially those found in Uncharted:GA. Either way, smart phones hurt portable consoles and primarily Sony devices.

Switch is indeed for gamers but there are different audiences. The same audience buying Nintendo platforms aren't buying the popular games on X1 and PS4.

Again, even if Switch could become #2, I don't see it at a real competitor of X1 and PS4. It will succeed doing its own thing.



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mjk45 said:

 I feel that Sony would have been better served by keeping their powder dry and letting MS make the  first move , that way they could have controlled the power narrative that they held.

They had a 1 year advantage.

They will likely have a 100-150$ price advantage.

They went for a checkerboard technique, that ment they didnt need as much power = cheaper console.

It wont be as pretty a 4k picture as the Scorpio's, but for the avg consumer, both will be 4k box's and they ll be left looking at the price of the system.

 

Only time can tell ultimately but I personally dont think it was a mistake.

Sales will tell I guess, if a year or two from now we get numbers from sony/ms about the Pro & Scorpio.



Mr Puggsly said:

Even if the Switch manges to outperform the X1, that doesn't mean Switch gets great support by default. The Switch audience won't buy core games like the Xbox audience. DS had a lot of support but there wasn't a ton of quality, it was probably a cheap platform to support. Making Switch games is a different thing, especially if doesn't have the power to easily port games to.

I'll have to disagree there. I think there was a ton of quality on DS. Only second to PS2 in the history of consoles/handhelds.
Both of those systems had pretty much everything, which included a lot of lower quality games. But they also had a ton of high quality games.



Hiku said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Even if the Switch manges to outperform the X1, that doesn't mean Switch gets great support by default. The Switch audience won't buy core games like the Xbox audience. DS had a lot of support but there wasn't a ton of quality, it was probably a cheap platform to support. Making Switch games is a different thing, especially if doesn't have the power to easily port games to.

I'll have to disagree there. I think there was a ton of quality on DS. Only second to PS2 in the history of consoles/handhelds.
Both of those systems had pretty much everything, which included a lot of lower quality games. But they also had a ton of high quality games.

Eh... I guess it depends on what you personally enjoy. There are certainly DS games I enjoy but I was a bigger fan of GBA.



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KBG29 said:

I was taking into account new form factors. I fully believe Sony and Nintendo will put out more options to build out their ecosystem, considering how important their hardware and ecosystems are. It would not shock me to see a Portable PS4 next year, and a Switch Mini. Then a PS4 and XBO revision in 2019, followed by a Switch revision in 2020, and so on and so forth.

It just seems like we have reach a point where they are no longer trying to compete head to head at the same launch, and they are all willing to take time and try to capture the spot light in their own window.

Thats the thing though... what you are saying sin't possible either. People keep saying this thing a lot. A PS4 portable...... but when I see that I just think to myself that these people don't really know how hardware works.

The switch in docked mode has a peak power draw of around 17watts. Mind you, thats 17watts for the entire system so it covers everything that requires power to run in the switch and not just the APU. The PS4 on the other hand draws a max 140watt of power. Thats like 7 TIMES more power needed!!!! And this isn't even taking int consideration that sony would have to make cart versions of all its PS4 games or go all digital and still put in a significant sized nad flash module(s) in the unit (which is way more expensive than throwing in a HDD.

For there to be a PS4 portable, max power consumption has to come down to around 20watt. Even shifting to a 7nm node..... thats just not possible.

Mr Puggsly said:

1.That same argument could be made when the PS5 launches. Scropio will be a very capable box that's cheaper and it will share games with the next Xbox.

2. PS4 Pro specs upgrade just wasn't big enough. They should have made a better upgrade for $499. It would have been more capable, more desired, and the average user on budget would have bought a PS4 Slim anyway.

3. Sony hasn't made many mistakes this gen, but PS4 Pro underdelivered.

Alright, lets put our preferences aside here and be honest.

  1. The same argument can't be made because of the CPU. When the new consoles come along, we are not ging to be looking at just significant GPU boosts compared to their older brothers. We are going to be looking at significant improvements in bothe the CPU and GPU. The better CPU means there are games that would be made that just wouldn't be possible to make on the PS4/PS4pro and the XB1s/XB1SC. That is what marks a generational jump as oppoed to an incremental one.

  2. You see you contradicted yourself here. So they should have gone for broke and made a $499 machine for what would turn out to be less than 10% of their yearly sales? How does that make any sense. What they did was make a machne that give gamers a passable "4k" experience. So those that want to hop into 4k even those doing so on a budget, have a cheap budget minded 4k console to go with it. Unless of course you are trying to say that the more expensive hardware will always sell better.

  3. Underdelivered how? What were you expecting? or what are you suggesting will happen with the scorpio. If you think the scorpio is somehow going to amount to 50% or more of the XB1's yearly total sales then you are in for a very big surprise. No one thats waited this long to buy a console is going to do so now because there are more expoensive versions of the already existing consoles on the market. The scorpio will sell primarily to people that already own an XB1 and care about upgrading. At least 90% of its sales will be made of those kinda gamers, as is the case with the PS4pro.