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Did Sony make a mistake by be first to release an upgraded console.

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by the time they wait until Scorpio revealed then start to upgrade, might as well make a PS5 instead of Pro



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Kyuu said:
No. Price and specs were perfectly timed. If PS4 Pro fails, then that just means most consumers aren't into mid-gen upgrade as a whole concept.

If Sony made the Pro more powerful and released it 6-12 months after the Scorpio, it would have been too close to the PS5 and more of a late-gen upgrade. The gap between current and next gen Playstation would be too small.

Scropio's absurd power upgrade over the original X1 was an overkill for a mid-gen upgrade. It indicates that Microsoft will no longer produce traditional consoles. They're turning Xbox into a closed PC of sorts.

Exactly. Microsoft is in the midst of a contradiction, whilst trying to give everyone "options". They are spreading themselves thin trying to be everything to everyone. In the end, they are just creating a vessel with an eco system second to their competition wherever you look. On PC they are second and on consoles they are second (and if the Switch does well third).



Why doesn't MS just build in HaloGearsForza and forget about media or other games since that's all they do anyway.



monocle_layton said:
Nope.

Think about it. Since the Pro is old enough, they can make a $299 Pro slim or whatever and say, "hey, our console is only slightly weaker and $100+ cheaper".

People who see a $499 and $300-350 console will probably go for the cheaper

That same argument could be made when the PS5 launches. Scropio will be a very capable box that's cheaper and it will share games with the next Xbox.

PS4 Pro specs upgrade just wasn't big enough. They should have made a better upgrade for $499. It would have been more capable, more desired, and the average user on budget would have bought a PS4 Slim anyway.

Sony hasn't made many mistakes this gen, but PS4 Pro underdelivered.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:
Kyuu said:
No. Price and specs were perfectly timed. If PS4 Pro fails, then that just means most consumers aren't into mid-gen upgrade as a whole concept.

If Sony made the Pro more powerful and released it 6-12 months after the Scorpio, it would have been too close to the PS5 and more of a late-gen upgrade. The gap between current and next gen Playstation would be too small.

Scropio's absurd power upgrade over the original X1 was an overkill for a mid-gen upgrade. It indicates that Microsoft will no longer produce traditional consoles. They're turning Xbox into a closed PC of sorts.

Exactly. Microsoft is in the midst of a contradiction, whilst trying to give everyone "options". They are spreading themselves thin trying to be everything to everyone. In the end, they are just creating a vessel with an eco system second to their competition wherever you look. On PC they are second and on consoles they are second (and if the Switch does well third).

I don't get this argument at all.

They have the affordable X1 S, they will have a premium console option, and they share games with Windows 10 to stimulate that platform and marketplace.

Being second isn't the worst thing in the world. I'll make this point, Vita didn't die because it was second. It died because it had no significant audience. PSP was doing just fine at second.

Switch is a different thing, different audience. It won't even get many of the games coming to PS4 and X1.



Recently Completed
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for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

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Mr Puggsly said:
monocle_layton said:
Nope.

Think about it. Since the Pro is old enough, they can make a $299 Pro slim or whatever and say, "hey, our console is only slightly weaker and $100+ cheaper".

People who see a $499 and $300-350 console will probably go for the cheaper

That same argument could be made when the PS5 launches. Scropio will be a very capable box that's cheaper and it will share games with the next Xbox.

PS4 Pro specs upgrade just wasn't big enough. They should have made a better upgrade for $499. It would have been more capable, more desired, and the average user on budget would have bought a PS4 Slim anyway.

Sony hasn't made many mistakes this gen, but PS4 Pro underdelivered.

So you're assuming the next xbox upgrade will be dragged down by those games having to work on scorpio as well as xboxnext?

Not sure that's an ideal scenario for MS right there.

I do agree in wishing Sony had gone for a $500 upgrade though, especially if those $100 extra were spent on the processor. In any case it seems it wasn't in the cards as the scorpio will also be keeping Jaguar.



setsunatenshi said:
Mr Puggsly said:

That same argument could be made when the PS5 launches. Scropio will be a very capable box that's cheaper and it will share games with the next Xbox.

PS4 Pro specs upgrade just wasn't big enough. They should have made a better upgrade for $499. It would have been more capable, more desired, and the average user on budget would have bought a PS4 Slim anyway.

Sony hasn't made many mistakes this gen, but PS4 Pro underdelivered.

So you're assuming the next xbox upgrade will be dragged down by those games having to work on scorpio as well as xboxnext?

Not sure that's an ideal scenario for MS right there.

I do agree in wishing Sony had gone for a $500 upgrade though, especially if those $100 extra were spent on the processor. In any case it seems it wasn't in the cards as the scorpio will also be keeping Jaguar.

Here's my prediction. X1 and Scropio will be required to share games until the next X1. At that point developers can choose to not support the original X1 hardware.

I anticipate Scorpio will be a very capable machine even for 2021 standards. Since new consoles (upgrades) come so quickly and with less financial risks that means the upgrades are gonna be smaller.

In a nutshell, I'm saying Scorpio should be able to handle PS5 and Next X1 content at a lower resolution and maybe lower graphics settings.

How powerful will PS5 really be? Especially if launches in 2020 and Sony wants to hit $399-$499 without losing money on hardware. At best maybe it will be 12TF?



Recently Completed
Crackdown 3
for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Exactly. Microsoft is in the midst of a contradiction, whilst trying to give everyone "options". They are spreading themselves thin trying to be everything to everyone. In the end, they are just creating a vessel with an eco system second to their competition wherever you look. On PC they are second and on consoles they are second (and if the Switch does well third).

I don't get this argument at all.

They have the affordable X1 S, they will have a premium console option, and they share games with Windows 10 to stimulate that platform and marketplace.

Being second isn't the worst thing in the world. I'll make this point, Vita didn't die because it was second. It died because it had no significant audience. PSP was doing just fine at second.

Switch is a different thing, different audience. It won't even get many of the games coming to PS4 and X1.

You're correct that the Scorpio is an option which was set up by Sony to work in such a fashion as a "mid-gen refresh" with the Pro. As I stated earlier, theres no point in arguing with options because they are a beautiful thing.  This will eventually cause the price of "premium models" will drop to a point where the consumer will question whether to get the base model or the upgrade ( if they care enough and have the cash to spare in the coming years). This is a good way to compete on a small scale, but it will not affect the larger outcome in the grand scheme of things. 

Being in second is one thing, but truthfully if Nintendos projections are correct the Xbox could end up  in third if they are successful in outpacing the Wii. If Nintendo comes with what matters, which is games from all angles on a DS level of value from all parties involved Microsoft will be forced to undersrtand what matters. The PSP was doing fine, but Sony spread themselves too thin trying to manage the PSP while its value was commercially eclipsed by the PS3. Sony understood where the handheld was going hence why their version of the switch leaked, which was created before the switch was announced. They Nintendo beat them to the punch. Sometimes thats how technology works and Sony and Nintendo get it. Nintendo danced around the power issue and tapped into their largest audience whilst trying to hold onto the rest who bought Wii's. Its not very different from the Vita, but the difference is Nintendo's first party will be leading the charge with greater vigor than Sony did with the Vita. Sony applied all of their development force behind the PS3. Thats where I believe they failed. Nintendo never faltered there with the DS and had very strong games from square and others as a result.

The Switch is for gamers. The switch is a console and it isnt as the same time. That makes it more for the gaming enthusiast. I havent enjoyed holding a handheld in years and I wanted a Vita, but wisely chose to move past it. The play anywhere angle Sony was pulling with the Vita/ PS3 combo was better implemeted by Nintendo who merely made the handheld the console and once docked output it to as high as 1080p. In conclusion, Nintendo can compete without taking the same games. They are still in the console race, but running with a suit best fitted for themselves to survive and be legitimate in the current gen. All Odyssey, Mario Kart and Zelda BOTW is an amazing leading AAA experience for Nintendo to woo gamers with in the launch year. I am sure E3 will reveal more games. Unless Microsoft is paying up for timed exclusives, the switch (as was said in another post) will be prioritized even over them. The switch could reach second for the gen and Microsoft third as a result. Not saying it is 100% but the way its being projected id say its a possibility.



No. I think the target demographic is slightly different for Scorpio because it'll be a "premium console for a premium price".
If PS4 and PS4 Pro are $50 cheaper by the time Scorpio launches for $500+, it'll be very interesting to see what kind of demand there is for something like Scorpio.

Also, by releasing Pro in 2016, there's more leeway for gap in power to PS5.



Without the pro, there would be no scorpio. Microsoft clearly reacted to what Sony was doing.

To me it's just funny how the arguments will be shifting around once more.



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’