By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Breath of the Wild, perfect scores, and framerate

thismeintiel said:
KLAMarine said:

Unsightly. Mariah's got issues. I do wonder though what was the score prior to it becoming a featured comment? I just downvoted it so it can still be voted on. One should note that despite my downvote, the score on her comment did not change.

Mind digging up the hateful comment with the 500 thumbs up?

 

Also, I'm tempted to read the whole of Jim's review but I fear spoilers.

Like I said, that's going to be really impossible as he erased all the really bad ones with little to no constuctive criticism.  I think his video actually brought even more hate to his page, since he shows that it in his vid with only 1 upvote.  Then, again, he may have caught the screenshot of the comment before his review was hit by a ton of fanboys.  Either way, even ~150 upvotes is way too many.  And, really, I wouldn't mind all the trolls/fanboys.  They are everywhere.  No, what made this worse was not only the severity of their attack, but also the more sane Nintendo fans making excuses for their behavior.  Acting like Jim deserved it for not only giving it a 7, but also knocking the score down to 97.  Either way you cut it, it was a pathetic display.

Can you point out the excuses these more sane Nintendo fans made? I'd like to read them.



Around the Network
mZuzek said:
JakDaSnack said:

It's by far the least sexist Zelda game.  The story is probably the most mature of any of the Zelda games.  Not sure about the transphobic stuff, maybe there was something when you are forced to cross dress, but I honestly don't remember.  If you have a source please post it.

Supposedly Link makes an ugly shocked face when he sees a supposed female character with beard or something (the character that gives you the Gerudo clothing).

That's it.

God, I hope SE isn't scared off of putting the Honey Bee stuff in FF7:R.  Cause if they are, that would suck.



KLAMarine said:
thismeintiel said:

Like I said, that's going to be really impossible as he erased all the really bad ones with little to no constuctive criticism.  I think his video actually brought even more hate to his page, since he shows that it in his vid with only 1 upvote.  Then, again, he may have caught the screenshot of the comment before his review was hit by a ton of fanboys.  Either way, even ~150 upvotes is way too many.  And, really, I wouldn't mind all the trolls/fanboys.  They are everywhere.  No, what made this worse was not only the severity of their attack, but also the more sane Nintendo fans making excuses for their behavior.  Acting like Jim deserved it for not only giving it a 7, but also knocking the score down to 97.  Either way you cut it, it was a pathetic display.

Can you point out the excuses these more sane Nintendo fans made? I'd like to read them.

It's all in here.  It basically boils down to how his opinions don't matter because "that's how the game was supposed to be" or "the weapons breaking adds variety."  As for the defending of the attack, they speculate he lowered the review two points on purpose, just for attention or because he's trolling and he wanted the DDOS attack for more attention.  Basically, he was asking for it.  Some even saying it's understanable to be mad because it lowered the Meta and they would have been fine if it hadn't lowered the score.  I guess cause a 97 is a shit game or something.



Wyrdness said:

Hm, I'm glad you posted this. Makes my opinion on his review and his intentions change considerably. 



thismeintiel said:

Of course it should be considered, as it is also a fact.  Most notably when decent games get 4's or lower, which is below average.  I believe someone gave UC4 a 4, which is completely ridiculous.  Sure, the game may be average to you, gameplay-wise, but you can't ignore its graphical/technical achievements.  IMO, the lowest that game should get is a 6, or above average.  Unfortuanely, though, a 4 for a huge AAA title is guaranteed traffic to your site from fans who are going to voice their anger/disapproval for the score.

And it is somewhat concerning for gaming companies to advertise on gaming sites, as they may lead to skewed reviews.  However, I don't think that is too much of a concern.  Even if the site gives your game a lower score than you think it should have gotten, crying about it will only give you bad press, which could affect sales.  It also stands to reason that the vast majority of site goers are going to be gamers, so you are going to want to advertise on them, anyway, to reach the largest number of gamers.  Scores be damned.  And not all of those gamers go off of reviews.  Or think 6s or 7s make a game unbuyable.

4/10 - pretty reasonable score for UC4 though. This game is scripted boredom.



Around the Network
thismeintiel said:
KLAMarine said:

Can you point out the excuses these more sane Nintendo fans made? I'd like to read them.

It's all in here.  It basically boils down to how his opinions don't matter because "that's how the game was supposed to be" or "the weapons breaking adds variety."

I can understand some people disagreeing with viewpoints Jim presented but are there any posts that explicitly say Jim's opinions don't matter?

thismeintiel said:

As for the defending of the attack, they speculate he lowered the review two points on purpose, just for attention or because he's trolling and he wanted the DDOS attack for more attention.  Basically, he was asking for it.

Baseless speculation on their part. Comparable to your inviting speculation earlier in this thread as to why a reviewer would give Uncharted 4 a 4/10.

"Most notably when decent games get 4's or lower, which is below average.  I believe someone gave UC4 a 4, which is completely ridiculous.  Sure, the game may be average to you, gameplay-wise, but you can't ignore its graphical/technical achievements.  IMO, the lowest that game should get is a 6, or above average.  Unfortuanely, though, a 4 for a huge AAA title is guaranteed traffic to your site from fans who are going to voice their anger/disapproval for the score."

Opinions, man. That's all it boils down to. People angry at Jim's 7 are no different than people angry at all the 10s. Opposite side of the same coin.

One difference is some people tackle differing opinions head on, others speculate on ulterior motives they have little chance of uncovering.

thismeintiel said:

Some even saying it's understanable to be mad because it lowered the Meta and they would have been fine if it hadn't lowered the score.  I guess cause a 97 is a shit game or something.

Sadly, I think some people wear their platform of choice on their sleeve. They stake their own pride and self-worth on the little plastic box next to their television.

I know because I used to be one of those people MANY years ago. I'm not perfect but I'd like to think I'm wiser now.



pokoko said:
Mnementh said:

Let's face it: our enjoyment of games is subjective. It always is. You can conclude that some games are objectively terrible, but on the other end of the scale is no objectivity. I wasn't unhappy with Jim Sterlings review, I always said in the thread, that I thought his opinion acceptable (while I feel differently) and his points valid. Also his score was OK, a 7/10 is fine.

Secondly there is this perception of 10/10 as perfection. This really bugs me. This is like saying: we can use numbers from 1 to 10, but we don't use the ten. That's bull. The ten is a valid score. As no game is perfect it means the flaws don't destroy the enjoyment.

Overall I think the issue is similar to ME:A face-animations. While it might look strange in places, most people care more for other things.

Our enjoyment of a game might be subjective but it's generally grounded by objective parameters.  Controls, camera functionality, frame-rate--there are any number of criteria that can be rated and compared to other games.  When I look at a review, I want the technical side to be considered as well because I'm the only one who can decide what does and does not detract from my experience.  The reviewer saying, "oh, but I don't care about X, I only care about Y," makes the article about the reviewer as much as it is about the game.

That's why many people, when they read a review of something, they're looking for as much objective information as possible, so they can apply it to their own list of likes and dislikes.  Reviews, in my opinion, should describe both sides of the coin.  They aren't simply an editorial or a tech analysis, they're a reflection of both.

I agree that the writer should mention in the review all the things noticeable. People have different opinions and like different things, which is why they value different things. If the reviewer mentions framerate hiccups but says it doesn't take away from the enjoyment the reader can decide if he values it the same way.

The german site I read (Golem) does not give an numerical at all at it's reviews, but only a text with a textual description and a conclusion. Even better, the reviewers often answer to questions in the forum to the article. They concluded that the occasional framerate hiccups were there (they measured it) but framerate always recovered and for their feeling didn't influence the enjoyment. For ME: Andromeda they noticed the problems of the facial animations and also said they could break immersion for a moment, but also said they were not common and overall took not much away from the enjoyment. I think the missing score is great so people are forced to read the text and even better is that they react to readers writing in the forum.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

mZuzek said:
thismeintiel said:

It's all in here.  It basically boils down to how his opinions don't matter because "that's how the game was supposed to be" or "the weapons breaking adds variety."  As for the defending of the attack, they speculate he lowered the review two points on purpose, just for attention or because he's trolling and he wanted the DDOS attack for more attention.  Basically, he was asking for it.  Some even saying it's understanable to be mad because it lowered the Meta and they would have been fine if it hadn't lowered the score.  I guess cause a 97 is a shit game or something.

To be fair, weapon durability complaints are actually pretty sad. The durability system is crucial to a lot of the fun aspects of Breath of the Wild's gameplay, and it would be completely broken if it wasn't for it - it would get boring as soon as you got 1 good weapon.

The game has lots of other things that could be considered problems for some. Saying the story is average, or the ending is underwhelming, or talking about the inconsistent framerate, among other things are actually pretty valid points. Weapon durability is just... not. I get that some people will never like a system like that where the weapons break all the time, but it simply isn't an issue within the game design - if anything, it makes the game better.

Let's be honest, regardless of how the weapon system was, I'm sure you would like it.  Unless you hated the old one and were constantly posting about having easily destructible weapons added to Zelda.  Though, I could probably go back in your comments and wouldn't find such posts.

And no, they aren't sad.  They are a differing opinions.  Just because someone hates easily destructible weapons, doesn't make them sad or that they are just not enlightened enough to get it.  It's that they don't like them, regardless of what game they are in.

Boberkun said:
thismeintiel said:

Of course it should be considered, as it is also a fact.  Most notably when decent games get 4's or lower, which is below average.  I believe someone gave UC4 a 4, which is completely ridiculous.  Sure, the game may be average to you, gameplay-wise, but you can't ignore its graphical/technical achievements.  IMO, the lowest that game should get is a 6, or above average.  Unfortuanely, though, a 4 for a huge AAA title is guaranteed traffic to your site from fans who are going to voice their anger/disapproval for the score.

And it is somewhat concerning for gaming companies to advertise on gaming sites, as they may lead to skewed reviews.  However, I don't think that is too much of a concern.  Even if the site gives your game a lower score than you think it should have gotten, crying about it will only give you bad press, which could affect sales.  It also stands to reason that the vast majority of site goers are going to be gamers, so you are going to want to advertise on them, anyway, to reach the largest number of gamers.  Scores be damned.  And not all of those gamers go off of reviews.  Or think 6s or 7s make a game unbuyable.

4/10 - pretty reasonable score for UC4 though. This game is scripted boredom.

Well, good then.  You should have no problem with BOTW getting a 7 and two 6's.



mZuzek said:
JakDaSnack said:

It's by far the least sexist Zelda game.  The story is probably the most mature of any of the Zelda games.  Not sure about the transphobic stuff, maybe there was something when you are forced to cross dress, but I honestly don't remember.  If you have a source please post it.

Supposedly Link makes an ugly shocked face when he sees a supposed female character with beard or something (the character that gives you the Gerudo clothing).

That's it.

Ya, that scene is not transphobic in the slightest. 



Something...Something...Games...Something

mZuzek said:
thismeintiel said:

And no, they aren't sad.  They are a differing opinions.  Just because someone hates easily destructible weapons, doesn't make them sad or that they are just not enlightened enough to get it.  It's that they don't like them, regardless of what game they are in.

Yes they are sad.

People are entitled to their own opinions and as I said, it's completely normal and understandable that some people won't like it.

However, pointing that as a flaw in the game is simply ridiculous. It's a design choice that is completely coherent with everything else in the game and makes the game far more interesting, because it keeps that survival factor, and it keeps it hard. It keeps the player always on their toes and always having to make decisions and have a good understanding of what they're doing, rather than just going in without giving things any thought because they have an OP weapon.

It also balances the game because it makes it so you can't just get a super broken weapon in Hyrule Castle and breeze your way through the whole game because of it.

...and besides making the game more balanced, and making combat more interesting, it's also a crucial part of why combat is fun, too - because when you battle an enemy, and you defeat it, you want a reward. That reward always comes in the form of more weapons, which is always a good thing to have - except if weapons didn't break ever, in which case every enemy encounter in the game would be completely pointless by the point you get a good weapon.

tl;dr the destructible weapons not only make the combat in the game more interesting, but also rewarding. If it wasn't for that, combat would be completely boring and pointless.

So... because it was a design choice means it should be beyond criticism even if that design choice detracts from your overall experience? Your entire post is dictating to everyone what they should and should not find fun. If weapon degredation is such a critical part to the combat of a Zelda game, then why is it the first of over a dozen Zelda games to feature it? Are you saying the combat boring and pointless in all previous Zelda games?