"The new testament doesn't work without the old one.  It just doesn't make sense."

It does for me, and not really sure what to say.. in the north we re pretty relaxed with christianity. It works that way basically for everyone in denmark.

I was never taught in school/or during confirmation about the old testiment, or any of that.

I was basically always just told the old testiment was like fevered dreams written down by old men, anything before the new testiment is just crap.

What matters is just what sense you make of jesus's teachings in the new testiment.

"Why are you basing your beliefs on what you've been told?  Read the books."

Because I honestly think the new testiment stands on its own, and everything else is a bullcrap. Why waste my time? most of us arnt all that heavly invested.

"As for parts of the new testament that don't conform to reality, we can start with virgins giving birth with no semen, the dead rising, and life beyond the death of the brain."

These are why people believe he was the son of god.

All we have to go on, is that the romans actually cursified someone named jesus.

And what people wrote down when they travelled with him / met him.

It's reasonable in the sense that humans need answers and death is still the ultimate mystery. Maybe there is something beyond this life, maybe not.

My guess is though at some point human beings will advance to the point where they have basically "cured" physical death to the point where they are able to live hundreds if not thousands of years. In that case, I think religion will basically be faded out as it won't really serve the same kind of need.

What I have learned from science is that nothing but energy and matter last.  Space is constantly expanding and we're always on the verge of the next big discovery with each piece of technology we put our thought and mind into. Recreation from that which has passed on, which is a smart universal tip to understand about recycling. Everything including planets and our very own sun has a lifespan. If humans were bright we wouldnt worry about living forever, but rather how to hop planets and systems to ensure our survival. By living for a long period of time we run the risk of devouring the resources of a planet as we multiply. I hate to say it, but we're like a virus that spreads. The good news is that we can cure the worst we bring by control ourselves and living sustainably wherever we rest our heads.

"Heat Death" of the universe?

Also isnt the current theory that the universe grows but then at some point starts shrinking back into nothingness?

Basically energy and matter dont last either.

So... basically, it seems like you just don't really care if it's true or not.  Which is fine.  But, in that case, don't try to talk to people about how they're wrong about it, if you're not interested in examining it to find out.

That is totally ass backwards.  That's not the way evidence works.  If there is evidence, there is evidence.  Assuming I'm a logical person, then I can't deny it.  It just is.  

If their is evidence, subtle or otherwise, show me.  If it is actual evidence.  I assure you I am more than willing to see it.  You think I don't want to live forever in paradise?  Of course I would, and if there was evidence, I would be off to church right now.  I have no predisposition towards atheism.  But, I cannot possibly believe something before the evidence is shown to me.  

Besides that, I was raised to believe in yahweh.  I had no predisposition towards atheism.  I was told as a child that he existed, and until I reached about 14 I believed in that.  So, if there was evidence to be seen, I was willing.  But, eventually I got older and more capable of critical reasoning, and I looked for evidence, and found none.

And, no, the order of the universe is not evidence of any god, and it is especially not evidence of the christian god.  Firstly, I don't even know that the universe is particularly ordered.  You'd have to define that.  Secondly, I have no reason to believe that order cannot exist without a god.  And even if we could show that, it still wouldn't make any of the clearly wrong things in the bible right.  We've already gone over the blind watchmaker argument.  

Belief does not mean to feel strongly without evidence.  Belief means to accept something as true.  You can accept something for bad reasons, faith, or good reasons, evidence. When your belief is based on very strong evidence, you can say that you know it.   For example, 1+1=2.  I believe 1+1=2 because I accept this as true.  I also know 1+1=2 because it is demonstrable.

Thank you for saying this.

It feels like you ll get rediculed if you say you actually have faith in this thread.

I'd say faith can be reasonable, depending on what you call reasonable. However, it stops being reasonable when it overrides evidence.

By very definitely faith isn't reasonable. Otherwise, you wouldn't need faith.

I guess part of the issue here is if Faith is being considered strictly as a religious idea that has no application anywhere else. I took this thread to be making the statement, all Faith is not reasonable, including non-religious examples.

Section 2b is my point as well. Strong belief in something (a theory) for which there is no proof is the definition of Faith.

PS

I do enjoy having calm, rational, discussions like this. I learn from them, and sometimes even change my opinion.