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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - My thoughts on "Star Fox Zero's graphics look bad"

Cobretti2 on 18 November 2015
mountaindewslave said:
Cobretti2 said:

how so, you gert a variety of missions and I am not gonna write out an in depth description level by level and how some modern game elements could benefit star fox.

Star Fox is a shooter series, there's no real need to overcomplicate it (imo as a fan). But because of its relative simplicity I definitely think they need to push the graphics when possible, keep the controls comfortable and classic (no motion control bullshit!), and keep up the tradition of Star Fox games where the path to the end of the battle / solar system is somewhat up to your actions and choice (in terms of navigating from planet to planet)

in the end a series like this just needs creativity in terms of enemies and visuals. Its like the wheel, it works so we don't need to improve it fundamentally, just possibly get some nice tires and paint (or whatever). my point being that if the newer Starfox games are similar to old with little graphical or visual improvements then what exactly IS being improved?

watching the few videos of Star Fox Zero I guess such strong reminders of Star Fox 64- it's like they've taken part of that game. again, recycling can be cool SOMETIMES but not if it stifles creativity and new experiences. SF 64 is one of my favorite games but I want new things! new enemies, new types of planets, NEW VISUALS (thats where improved graphics would help and where it becomes more important)

I am a fan too but at the same time I see the value of growing a franchise.

Look at GTA, COD etc they have exploded. I am not expecting Star Fox to reach those numbers but how could would it be seeing another Nintendo franchise hit the 5 million mark (obviously it won't happen on Wii U) but thinking ahead NX assuming they learned from their mistakes. Don't forget Nntendo is also looking to expand outside of games, so why not a Star fox cartoon? What better way to brainwash young kids lol?

In reality I don't think I would care if Nintendo didn't loose so many franchises from the N64/GCN days (mainly RARE games that been neglected over the years). They didn't even buy any franchise when THQ went under. There was some decent ones there that could have been used.   It is like they don't want to get out of their comfort zone.



 

 

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OdinHades on 18 November 2015

People need to stop bitching about graphics so much. It simply doesn't matter. The graphics only need to be good enough to support a certain art style which the designers intended to achieve. Nothing more. Gameplay should always come first. Sure, better graphics are a nice bonus for a game. But it's not a necessity. Not at all.

Take Silent Hill for example. It didn't look that great at release, there were countless games with better graphics. But the game still stayed in the head of many gamers until this very day. Crysis on the other hand with its top notch graphics from outer space will be completely forgotten in a few years. It had nothing to offer besides its graphics, it was a dull game. Or a more recent example: Fallout 4 looks not-so-great while Rise of the Tomb Raider has dem shiny grfxx. Guess which one will be remembered more. Undertale has silly 8-Bit graphics but still a MASSIVE fanbase and it is a truly unique game to remember. 3D graphics with FXAA, HDRR and whatnot wouldn't change anything about that.

Seriously, stop caring about graphics and start enjoying the games.



Official member of VGC's Nintendo family, approved by the one and only RolStoppable. I feel honored.

Vodacixi on 18 November 2015
curl-6 said:
Vodacixi said:
About the two screens rendering two points of view... Why is that different from Mario Kart 8 two player split-screen multiplayer? Sure, it renders more pixels in Star Fox because the extra Gamepad 480p screen. BUUT, and correct me if I'm wrong, in Mario Kart 8's multiplayer the CPU has to process two players controls input and two possible gameplay scenerios co-existing at the same time, while the two screens from Star Fox just differ in the point of view they are showing.

Then again, I'm just asking.

The difference is basically the number of pixels being drawn; 2 player splitscreen in Mario Kart 8 still draws 1280x720 pixels, while Starfox draws 1280x720 to the main screen plus 854x480 to the Gamepad.


Yes, I already said that. What about the fact that Mario Kart 8 has to process two player inputs and generate two different gameplay situations at the same time while Star Fox only generates one scenario shared between both screns? I mean, I don't know if that's really a big deal in terms of CPU/GPU charge (I don't know anything about technical matters), but if you add only one more player to MK8 splitscreen it drops to 30FPS instead of 60. So, I inevitably feel that even if Star Fox has some pixels going on, it also has less CPU/GPU charge than Mario Kart 8 two player split-screen in some aspects. And I'm not even talking about online, because I don't know if that consumes more processing power.

All things considered, I don't understand why Star Fox Zero looks like a Wii game in HD with pretty water. I'm not even asking for something like Mario Kart 8 but at least something worthy of the past 7th gen.



curl-6 on 18 November 2015
Cobretti2 said:
mZuzek said:

Yes, because it's a rail shooter, therefore it's a bad game stuck in the past and has no purpose, since absolutely no one can have fun with that type of game if not for nostalgia. I think the only way to make Star Fox really good today would be to make it a MMO open-world.

That or in the same vein as Freelancer a space simulator but add on a more in depth story. Then add online mutiplayer. 

Turn Starfox into a space simulator?



zippy on 18 November 2015

I keep repeating myself, but the gamepad isn't the reason Star Fox zero`s graphics are the way they are. If Nintendo never went with the gamepad features I'm pretty sure little would change with its art direction. What we would have is a scenario where people are complaining not just about its graphics, but why there is no meaningful gamepad implementation.



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curl-6 on 18 November 2015
mountaindewslave said:

my problem is that it looks so impressive graphically compared to even OTHER Wii U games. I mean look at Bayonetta 2 for gods sake compared to this, like that game looks gorgeous and this game looks? ehh. 

and this is coming from a major Starfox fan

it's not all about graphics. and granted a game like Bayonetta 2 has a totally different art style, but what crosses my mind is that that game is similar to Star Fox in the sense of it follows a linear 'rail' like path where you're killing enemies/bosses. there's no excuse for why Starfox looks so mediocre

Bayonetta only has to render one 1280x720 display.

Starfox Zero has to render 1280x720 on the TV plus 854x480 on the Gamepad.



curl-6 on 18 November 2015
Vodacixi said:

Yes, I already said that. What about the fact that Mario Kart 8 has to process two player inputs and generate two different gameplay situations at the same time while Star Fox only generates one scenario shared between both screns? I mean, I don't know if that's really a big deal in terms of CPU/GPU charge (I don't know anything about technical matters), but if you add only one more player to MK8 splitscreen it drops to 30FPS instead of 60. So, I inevitably feel that even if Star Fox has some pixels going on, it also has less CPU/GPU charge than Mario Kart 8 two player split-screen in some aspects. And I'm not even talking about online, because I don't know if that consumes more processing power.

All things considered, I don't understand why Star Fox Zero looks like a Wii game in HD with pretty water. I'm not even asking for something like Mario Kart 8 but at least something worthy of the past 7th gen.

2 sets of player inputs isn't a big processing hit to a modern console.
It's still just one gameplay scenario in MK8, just with two participants.



midrange on 18 November 2015
zippy said:
I keep repeating myself, but the gamepad isn't the reason Star Fox zero`s graphics are the way they are. If Nintendo never went with the gamepad features I'm pretty sure little would change with its art direction. What we would have is a scenario where people are complaining not just about its graphics, but why there is no meaningful gamepad implementation.


Gamepad definitely affects processing power. The graphics would have changed completely. Literally replacing the gamepad with a map/inventory would have been enough. The game would have improved vastly



Vodacixi on 18 November 2015
curl-6 said:
Vodacixi said:

Yes, I already said that. What about the fact that Mario Kart 8 has to process two player inputs and generate two different gameplay situations at the same time while Star Fox only generates one scenario shared between both screns? I mean, I don't know if that's really a big deal in terms of CPU/GPU charge (I don't know anything about technical matters), but if you add only one more player to MK8 splitscreen it drops to 30FPS instead of 60. So, I inevitably feel that even if Star Fox has some pixels going on, it also has less CPU/GPU charge than Mario Kart 8 two player split-screen in some aspects. And I'm not even talking about online, because I don't know if that consumes more processing power.

All things considered, I don't understand why Star Fox Zero looks like a Wii game in HD with pretty water. I'm not even asking for something like Mario Kart 8 but at least something worthy of the past 7th gen.

2 sets of player inputs isn't a big processing hit to a modern console.
It's still just one gameplay scenario in MK8, just with two participants.


Yes, but each player inflict different variables in the scenario. I'm using a star at 9th place kicking 8th, 7th and 6th asses while my friend at 3th is throwing red shells to 2nd and first. That rendered in two different perspectives looks more demanding that just SHOWING two perspectives. If it wasn't the case, Mario Kart 8 wouldn't drop to 30fps with 3 or 4 player neither would Hyrule Warriors drop its resolution AND framerate dramatically in co-op. If processing different players doing different things in the same scenario is not that demanding, those games should stay almost the same in any of this situations.



zippy on 18 November 2015
midrange said:
zippy said:
I keep repeating myself, but the gamepad isn't the reason Star Fox zero`s graphics are the way they are. If Nintendo never went with the gamepad features I'm pretty sure little would change with its art direction. What we would have is a scenario where people are complaining not just about its graphics, but why there is no meaningful gamepad implementation.


Gamepad definitely affects processing power. The graphics would have changed completely. Literally replacing the gamepad with a map/inventory would have been enough. The game would have improved vastly



Nintendo would have had the art style , character models and environments ready way before they started tinkering with gamepad controls. Plus as somebody has stated, Mario Kart 8 can render on both screens, and that's hardly a bad looking game. Star Fox looks like it does because its Miyamotos vision on how he wants the game to look.