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Forums - Politics Discussion - All we need is immigration reform

Personally, I already think he's GOAT. In addition to that list, he supported gay marriage and struck down that "don't ask don't tell" nonsense, he's improving relations with Cuba, and his sanctions on Russia has Putin's balls in a vice. They should carve his face on Mt. Rushmore.

But I think there are three things, any of which would do, that would leave an even greater impression. Immigration reform (obviously), ending the death penalty, and legalizing marijuana.



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carl_barx said:
rolltide101x said:
Thank God people here aren't in politics. a) Obama has caused more debt than EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT EVER PUT TOGETHER and is b) pushing the U.S. to socialism. He has c) done more damage than any president.


a) obama has been more fiscally conservative than reagan (even tho reagan inherited a much better situation)

b) conservatives were the ones who first supported the individual mandate which is the core of "obamacare", until of course obama supported it and they were suddenly against it--does that make them socialists too?

c) and how do you quantify this? i think the 2008 recession was pretty bad, and that was almost entirely the result of the bush administration

facts are nice

a) That is a very unsubstantiated graph. Both how deficits and GDP are measured have changed over time. In addition to this, GDP is dramatically higher, thus you can have higher deficits at a lower "percentage of GDP". The point may still be correct, I don't know, but that graph isn't evidence.

b) Yes, they are.

c) The economic crisis of 2008 was bigger than any one President. The housing bubble was a result of loose monetary policy from the Federal Reserve, with cash flowing out of the dotcom bust and into housing. It can be argued that specific policies channeled this flow into housing, from both the Bush and Clinton administrations... however, that bubble would have just formed elsewhere.

There are still bubbles waiting to be popped... tech, cars, stock market, etc. Buckle yourself in, we're in for one wild ride.



rolltide101x said:
http://www.politifact.com/new-jersey/statements/2012/may/04/chain-email/obama-has-added-more-national-debt-previous-43-pre/

Enough said. I'm not getting into a political debate over my phone and especially not on a gaming forum with people who don't truly understand how things work


LOL trying to proof a point with a article that disproofs your point nice fail.



SamuelRSmith said:
 

a) That is a very unsubstantiated graph. Both how deficits and GDP are measured have changed over time. In addition to this, GDP is dramatically higher, thus you can have higher deficits at a lower "percentage of GDP". The point may still be correct, I don't know, but that graph isn't evidence.

b) Yes, they are.

c) The economic crisis of 2008 was bigger than any one President. The housing bubble was a result of loose monetary policy from the Federal Reserve, with cash flowing out of the dotcom bust and into housing. It can be argued that specific policies channeled this flow into housing, from both the Bush and Clinton administrations... however, that bubble would have just formed elsewhere.

There are still bubbles waiting to be popped... tech, cars, stock market, etc. Buckle yourself in, we're in for one wild ride.

the housing bubble had nothing AT ALL to do with the federal reserve or with the dotcom bubble of 2000-01 (the latter is a separate economic recession resulting from speculation on internet startups, and the former has actually helped, through quantitative easing, to keep interest rates down during the recession and encourage investment)... it had to do with deregulation of the banks begun by reagan, continued (unfortunately) by clinton and congressional republicans, and continued even more enthusiastically by george w. bush (all wikipedia, hopefully you don't think they're left-wing...).

as for your catastrophism about the future, i can't really answer to that. you can't safeguard against all risk, but to be honest, it is republican economic policy that caused the great recession for the most part, and i think that needs to be recognized (which, to be fair, you sort of do in your post above).



By simply shifting US wars from a conventional one to a special warfare one, should grant him high praises.
We used to shell out close to $1 billion dollars a day in Iraq.
Heads of terrorist units and cells, rolled off their chain of command in a faster rate. US has never been this much of a mortal threat for enemies.



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To the thread. I agree with the premise that immigration reform needs to pass. I have skills that companies in the USA are crying out for, and I've wanted to live there pretty much all my life, but the level of bureaucracy just makes it so expensive for companies to hire people like me.



Obama hasn't doubled the national debt yet, but it's gonna be pretty close by the time he leaves office. Once interest rates go back up we are screwed. Which btw people talk about a strong economy but we've been at 0% interest rates for 7 years, 3 rounds of QE and 8 trillion dollars in debt to achieve mediocre growth. Congratulations.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

carl_barx said:

the housing bubble had nothing AT ALL to do with the federal reserve or with the dotcom crisis of 2000-01 (the latter is a separate economic crisis resulting from speculation about internet startups, and the former has actually helped, through quantitative easing, to keep interest rates down during the recession and encourage investment)... it had to do with deregulation of the banks begun by reagan, continued (unfortunately) by clinton and congressional republicans, and continued even more enthusiastically by george w. bush (all wikipedia, hopefully you don't think they're left-wing...).

as for your catastrophism about the future, i can't really answer to that. you can't safeguard against all risk, but to be honest, it is republican economic policy that caused the great recession for the most part, and i think that needs to be recognized (which, to be fair, you sort of do in your post above).

Yeah, I'm no Republican. I'm anti-war, anti-drug-war, sit somewhere in the middle on abortion, pro-marriage equality, atheist. I just happen to think that Republicans are better on the economy, IN RHETORIC ONLY, in policy, they're just as awful as Democrats.


http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Austrian_predictions/Housing_bubble

Yes, quantitive easing is the cause of bubbles. Interest rates actually mean something, they're a price on using money now versus using money in the future. Prices are an important market function, as they enable accurate information for good investment. Quantitive easing manipulates the price of borrowing, messing up that market information, and creating malinvestments, such as dotcom, housing, automobiles, education, stocks, etc.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-02/auto-sales-reach-10-year-highs-record-credit-record-loan-terms-record-ignorance <- auto
http://www.businessinsider.com/tech-stock-bubble-warning-signs-2015-4 - tech bubble
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-shares-fall-as-stimulus-hopes-wane-startups-look-expensive-2015-06-26 <- looks like stocks in China may have just popped.



Lol, sorry Obama is the worst president I've been alive to witness. Maybe Bush, nah I'll nudge Obama over him.



NobleTeam360 said:
Lol, sorry Obama is the worst president I've been alive to witness. Maybe Bush, nah I'll nudge Obama over him.

Bush fucked up CIA intel to prevent 9/11, fed the fat cats at Wall Street until he sent US economy to the pits of hell. Obama is no angel but don't clutter him with Bush even if you don't like his person.