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What if The WiiU's rumored AAA Game is Kingdom hearts 3?

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CrankyFlameBunny said:
sc94597 said:

Isn't the trend usually a downgrade rather than an upgrade? (See: Watch Dogs.) 

(Refer to Watch Dogs for the Wii U)

Watch Dogs Wii U still plays the same (as do the PS360 versions.) 



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sc94597 said:
Kami said:

I doubt a Dual Core i5 with no hyper threading thats clocked at 2.6ghz with 4mb of L3 cache is all that impressive. My old GPU (260x) ran games like Skyrim on low setting at 1080p around 30 - 40 fps. I've had my CPU for almost 5 years now been thinking about upgrading to a newer i3 with hyper threading, turbo boost and such. But I upgraded my GPU (obviously to a much more high end expensive solution) and now I can run the same skyrim game at max setting with everything turned on at 1080p and I get around 70 fps. I can run far cry 4 maxed out at 1080p around the same fps. I'd argue based on experience that a monster GPU solution can make up for a weaker CPU. My brother has an amd fx 4-core with a Titan Z he recently got. He plays Shadow of Mordor at 1440p at around 84fps with his set up. 

In that case you can't even run a game like Dragon Age Inquisition with your CPU. The game runs like 18 fps with stuttering on two-threaded processors (I would know my G3258 which I got for emulation until I get a broadwell i5 or i7 barely plays it.) Far Cry 4 needs an injector to get working with two-threaded processors, and you see huge performance gains with an i3 (about 20 fps) and a quad core (about 30 fps.)  Skyrim is a game from 2011. Of course your CPU, is up to par for it. And just because these games run great doesn't mean they aren't being bottlenecked. With an i5 your brother could probably run Shadows of Mordor at 120fps with his GPU. 

I would not know because I have DA:I on PS4 and not my PC. The game that probably takes the most for my set up to run is AC: Unity which I did mention runs like crap everywhere. For some reason when I run that game no matter what setting I choose one of my GPUs are always idling which I thought doesn't happen on SLI configurations unless I tell it too. I get best results with medium settings on most options and low on textures but I'm still only seeing about 30 fps and I have still have drops here and there. This is where I admit it's proabably my CPU which is just plain outdated. Even with a 3 way sli configuration with an old i5 my PC is still no match for brothers set up even with a cheap AMD quad core. 

I think consoles problems are not the fact that their CPUs are low clocked and weak. I think it's really bottlenecked by a poorly designed APU solution. APUs are budget solutions to a lot of things and need to take advantage of certain specs in order to perform well. 8GB although is enough for a regualr PC, isn't sufficent for an APU with shared memory. I would have been in favor of sony choosing the same 2133mhz of DDr3 ram the Microsoft went with, except put more of it like 16GB instead of 8. I would drop the arm processors that handles downloads and streaming in the PS4 and would have elected a Moddified 10 core APU with a Jaguar 2.0ghz on the CPU side and a 6 core GPU. APUs need things like more ram, faster ram, and dual graphics configs as well as OC to perform well in high end gaming. Sony and Microsoftshuld have spent more money there if they were going for a APU solution. 



Current Consoles: PS3, PS4, Wii U

PC Specs: i7-4770, GTX 560 Ti, 12GB 1600Mhz DDR3

Vena said:

Poor comparisons, as the ME ports were not well optimized for the WiiU, much like the poorly optimized AC games at launch or the Batman games. Deus Ex is about the only one that saw even a smidgen of optimization for the WiiU's architecture and capabilities.

Not optimised for Wii U is a popular excuse but do you honestly think a 5670 cant run games like Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8 or Smash 900p60fps? Why is Pikmin 3 capped to 30fps, is that poorly optimised? How on earth would running Wind Waker HD at 60fps "break physics" when PS2 remasters run at 1080p60 with bokeh depth of field on the PS3 (Zone of Enders)?Do you honestly think a 5670HD couldnt run those games at 900p60? If you'd ever owned the card you wouldnt say that. 



I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine

SubiyaCryolite said:
Vena said:

Poor comparisons, as the ME ports were not well optimized for the WiiU, much like the poorly optimized AC games at launch or the Batman games. Deus Ex is about the only one that saw even a smidgen of optimization for the WiiU's architecture and capabilities.

Not optimised for Wii U is a popular excuse but do you honestly think a 5670 cant run games like Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8 or Smash 900p60fps? Why is Pikmin 3 capped to 30fps, is that poorly optimised? How on earth would running Wind Waker HD at 60fps "break physics" when PS2 remasters run at 1080p60 with bokeh depth of field on the PS3 (Zone of Enders)?Do you honestly think a 5670HD couldnt run those games at 900p60? If you'd ever owned the card you wouldnt say that. 

Because games are different. also, wii u doesn't have an off the shelf gpu and consoles use gpus better, stop using this 5670 example or whatever.



Based on what the dev is saying, it is a logical choice.

What other games that are not "hardcore"😔 shooters and mature like Mass Effect and Deus Ex, but are bigger titles on Ps4/Xbox One?

That criteria of game seems to be dominated by Nintendo to the point that we dont have many options on those systems to begin with.



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Materia-Blade said:

Because games are different. also, wii u doesn't have an off the shelf gpu and consoles use gpus better, stop using this 5670 example or whatever.

Is the PS4s GPU off the shelf either? No. And yet people compare it to the 7870/7850 all the time. Same applies to the XBox one. The WiiU isn't alien tech and it does not perform the way a 620 gflop card would.

Nothing indicates that the systems GPU runs circles around the 360s Xenos. GPU bound games like trine, most wanted and pikmin all run at 30fps on the system for a reason. The difference between Wii U multiplats and 360 ports are minimal at best. There isn't a single game AAA or indie that runs at 30fps on the 360 and 60fps on Wii U. There isn't any game, indie or AAA that runs at 720p on the 360 and 900p on the Wii U.

Would you call those titles CPU intensive? No. Lazy ports? Intellectually dishonest. Were looking at a 40 to 60% processing power boost over the 360. 336 to 384 GFLOPs is  reasonable and explains all the 720p60 games. Anything else is wishful thinking.

The RAM helps but if I was to describe a powergap I'd the the 360 is a Nintendo 64 and the Wii U is a Nintendo 64 with the memory expansion pack.



I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine

Materia-Blade said:

Xenoblade has a bigger area rendered at a given time than skyrim while having much better graphics (polygons, textures,everything else). I don't know what you're trying to say with that "population" comparison, since XCX is full of things on every area. Smash is certainly more demanding than skyrim, with its 1080p 60fps and non blurry/low polygon characters.

Bayonetta 2 IS 60fps, xenoblade is clearly focusing on graphics and draw distance instead of 60fps and Wind Waker HD is 30 fps on wii u because the original game was designed that way. An increase to 60 would probably change the physics. For example, the original kingdom hearts when run on an emulator at 60fps makes objects fall twice as fast, as if doubling the fps increased the gravity.

The fact you aren't accepting is that Wii U games that aren't lazy ports/ports from lower platfroms consistently run at 720p 60fps with much better graphics than ps360 or 1080p 60fps with slightly better graphics than ps360. That's twice the average framerate and three times the average resolution (640p) for those two last gen consoles. Since ps360 had 200 gflops gpus, that easily puts wii u in the range of 600 gflops.

there are no wii games that compare to games like grand theft auto on last gen in terms of visuals or technical prowess

...that you would name smash bros... a fighting game demonstrates this

i'm not including xenoblade because it isn't out yet



SubiyaCryolite said:
Materia-Blade said:

Because games are different. also, wii u doesn't have an off the shelf gpu and consoles use gpus better, stop using this 5670 example or whatever.

Is the PS4s GPU off the shelf either? No. And yet people compare it to the 7870/7850 all the time. Same applies to the XBox one. The WiiU isn't alien tech and it does not perform the way a 620 gflop card would.

Nothing indicates that the systems GPU runs circles around the 360s Xenos. GPU bound games like trine, most wanted and pikmin all run at 30fps on the system for a reason. The difference between Wii U multiplats and 360 ports are minimal at best. There isn't a single game AAA or indie that runs at 30fps on the 360 and 60fps on Wii U. There isn't any game, indie or AAA that runs at 720p on the 360 and 900p on the Wii U.

Would you call those titles CPU intensive? No. Lazy ports? Intellectually dishonest. Were looking at a 40 to 60% processing power boost over the 360. 336 to 384 GFLOPs is  reasonable and explains all the 720p60 games. Anything else is wishful thinking.

The RAM helps but if I was to describe a powergap I'd the the 360 is a Nintendo 64 and the Wii U is a Nintendo 64 with the memory expansion pack.

Actually the PS4's GPU is a standard pitcairn with a few modifications (lower clockspeed, fewer shading units, etc) , but nothing like what was discovered in the analysis of the Wii U's GPU (which doesn't look very similar to an r700 that it was supposed to be based off of.) I don't know the details of the Xbone's hardware, so I won't comment on it. 

At the very conservative estimates, the Wii U's GPU is about 1.5 times (or 50%) Xenos in raw power. If we consider the extra memory bandwidth the Wii U has over the 360, then that is an even more significant difference. Frame-rates tend to be locked. Let's say that the game runs 31 fps unlocked on a Xenos, but 45 fps on the Wii U (average) unlocked. That represents a 1.5 times difference, which if the port wasn't a straight port can go into other features (like anti-aliasing or geometry detail.) Still, they'll lock the game to 30 fps because of monitor and television standards, and dedicating resources to vsync won't be worth it. Having said that, many 360 games run sub-HD and sub-30 fps while an overwhelming majority of games run 720p on the Wii U with a locked 30 fps. Furthermore, we see games like SSBB run at 1080p 60 fps on the Wii U. I have a hard time believing the 360 would keep up with this, for the sole reason of memory bandwidth alone. Most of the 360's 1080p games were much simpler than SSBB. 

Notice how first party, exclusive games, which take advantage of hardware that is unique to the Wii U tend to outperform multiplats. How can you say it is intellectually dishonest to call these multiplats poor ports in reflection of that? 

Your statement of the 360 is a N64 and Wii U is an N64 with a memory expansion is ridiculous. Even if we ignore raw power, the Wii U's GPU supports more modern features than the 360's, including things like hardware tesselation. This is evident in the effects found in Wii U games. Additionally, the GPU is at the very low estimate 50% faster, and the ram amount and bandwidth is greatly excessive. The CPU is a bottleneck of course, and that is the main reason why multiplats don't run that great, but also not the only reason. 



Materia-Blade said:
SubiyaCryolite said:

Not optimised for Wii U is a popular excuse but do you honestly think a 5670 cant run games like Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8 or Smash 900p60fps? Why is Pikmin 3 capped to 30fps, is that poorly optimised? How on earth would running Wind Waker HD at 60fps "break physics" when PS2 remasters run at 1080p60 with bokeh depth of field on the PS3 (Zone of Enders)?Do you honestly think a 5670HD couldnt run those games at 900p60? If you'd ever owned the card you wouldnt say that. 

Because games are different. also, wii u doesn't have an off the shelf gpu and consoles use gpus better, stop using this 5670 example or whatever.

On a technical level games can be very similar. If the Wii U is that much stronger then these poorly "optimized" games wouldn't happen. You think developers spent time optimizing the ps3, 360, pc, Xbox one and ps4? Then said fuck the Wii U? Doubt it. The Wii U has more memory but that does almost Nothing when it comes to multiplats with last Gen consoles And so far what we've seen doesn't justify the Expressos advantage over the 360's xenon and the PS3's Cell Engine. 



Current Consoles: PS3, PS4, Wii U

PC Specs: i7-4770, GTX 560 Ti, 12GB 1600Mhz DDR3

sc94597 said:

Actually the PS4's GPU is a standard pitcairn with a few modifications (lower clockspeed, fewer shading units, etc) , but nothing like what was discovered in the analysis of the Wii U's GPU (which doesn't look very similar to an r700 that it was supposed to be based off of.) I don't know the details of the Xbone's hardware, so I won't comment on it. 

At the very conservative estimates, the Wii U's GPU is about 1.5 times (or 50%) Xenos in raw power. If we consider the extra memory bandwidth the Wii U has over the 360, then that is an even more significant difference.

Pseudoscience. What proof do you have for that claim?

Frame-rates tend to be locked. Let's say that the game runs 31 fps unlocked on a Xenos, but 45 fps on the Wii U (average) unlocked. That represents a 1.5 times difference, which if the port wasn't a straight port can go into other features (like anti-aliasing or geometry detail.) Still, they'll lock the game to 30 fps because of monitor and television standards, and dedicating resources to vsync won't be worth it.

Made up figures to suit your argument. Give actual framerates from actual games

Having said that, many 360 games run sub-HD and sub-30 fps while an overwhelming majority of games run 720p on the Wii U with a locked 30 fps.

Please list multiplats that are sub 720p on the 360 and full 720p on the Wii U

Furthermore, we see games like SSBB run at 1080p 60 fps on the Wii U.

Several Nintendo fans on VGChartz itself admit that Smash U looks like Smash Brawl running in Dolphin. This is the same game that runs on a 3DS. The game isnt pushing high poly models, stages or fancy effects by any stretch of the imagination. The PS3 has several 1080p60 games as well. Apart from Smash what games run at 1080p60?

I have a hard time believing the 360 would keep up with this, for the sole reason of memory bandwidth alone. Most of the 360's 1080p games were much simpler than SSBB. 

Examples of how Smash is so complex? Feel free to use screenshots. Figures of the Wii Us "super bandwidth" compared to the 360 would also be nice.

Notice how first party, exclusive games, which take advantage of hardware that is unique to the Wii U tend to outperform multiplats. How can you say it is intellectually dishonest to call these multiplats poor ports in reflection of that? 

Thats true for exclusives on every system, see PS3, PS4, X1 and every console known to man.

Your statement of the 360 is a N64 and Wii U is an N64 with a memory expansion is ridiculous.

How so. Given the enhancements the memory pack offered to the vanilla M64 the analogy fits perfectly. If anything, the Wii U doesnt even offer comparable gains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_accessories#Expansion_Pak

Even if we ignore raw power, the Wii U's GPU supports more modern features than the 360's, including things like hardware tesselation.

So what? The 5670HD also had Direct X11 featues bu DX10 cards like the 4870, 4850 and 4770 are still stronger. Those features are only as good as the power backing them up. The 360 also has a hardware tesselator, it was used in all Forza gamnes, which were 720p60 with 4-2x MSAA. Somethng still absent on the Wii U.

This is evident in the effects found in Wii U games. Additionally, the GPU is at the very low estimate 50% faster, and the ram amount and bandwidth is greatly excessive. The CPU is a bottleneck of course, and that is the main reason why multiplats don't run that great, but also not the only reason. 

Source for "greatly excessive" bandwidth please?





I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine