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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What if The WiiU's rumored AAA Game is Kingdom hearts 3?

Materia-Blade said:

Xenoblade has a bigger area rendered at a given time than skyrim while having much better graphics (polygons, textures,everything else). I don't know what you're trying to say with that "population" comparison, since XCX is full of things on every area. Smash is certainly more demanding than skyrim, with its 1080p 60fps and non blurry/low polygon characters.

Bayonetta 2 IS 60fps, xenoblade is clearly focusing on graphics and draw distance instead of 60fps and Wind Waker HD is 30 fps on wii u because the original game was designed that way. An increase to 60 would probably change the physics. For example, the original kingdom hearts when run on an emulator at 60fps makes objects fall twice as fast, as if doubling the fps increased the gravity.

The fact you aren't accepting is that Wii U games that aren't lazy ports/ports from lower platfroms consistently run at 720p 60fps with much better graphics than ps360 or 1080p 60fps with slightly better graphics than ps360. That's twice the average framerate and three times the average resolution (640p) for those two last gen consoles. Since ps360 had 200 gflops gpus, that easily puts wii u in the range of 600 gflops.

The 5670 is a 620 GFlop card and I remember it performing much better than my Wii U in a lot of titles. Case in point ME2 and ME3 ran at 60fps (720p, could hit 900p30) while the Wii U port is capped to 30. Looking at youtube that card runs titles like Crysis 2 and Dirt 3 at High up to 1366 x 768 (> 720p) over 30fps. It also runs newer games like Far Cry 4 and Watch Dogs, admittedly at low but 8th gen PC "low" presets look pretty good. The Wii U rarely does that. Claiming that the Wii U has 3x the graphical throughghput of the PS3/360 and nearly half of the X1s is  very generous of you.



I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine

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sc94597 said:
Kami said:


hat makes their opinion more believable then the popular one? 

Their opinion is the popular one you keep citing. The 170 - 350 gflop estimate comes from the collection of articles found in that post. 

And even they say;

It it worth noting at this stage that a large portion of the GPU logic is still unexplained.


What I meant is what is making their opinion the popular one? Ever wonder why it's percieved that way? That being said there is almost no evidence that supports you're theory of the Wii U GPU being 550 gigaflops. 



Current Consoles: PS3, PS4, Wii U

PC Specs: i7-4770, GTX 560 Ti, 12GB 1600Mhz DDR3

Darwinianevolution said:
Goodnightmoon said:
DolPhanTendo said:
I would take a good guess and say it is Dragon Age: Inquisition


Inquisition is rated M, it has a lot of sex on it, is not dragon age.



Also it's made by EA, and EA doesn't make WiiU games anymore. They really hate the U, with all the discussions they had with Nintendo about the Origin thing.

Good point! Was no aware it was an EA game so nevermind what I said...........Next guess with ttruely thinking it through would be Mortal Kombat X



SubiyaCryolite said:

The 5670 is a 620 GFlop card and I remember it performing much better than my Wii U in a lot of titles. Case in point ME2 and ME3 ran at 60fps (720p, could hit 900p30) while the Wii U port is capped to 30. Looking at youtube that card runs titles like Crysis 2 and Dirt 3 at High up to 1366 x 768 (> 720p) over 30fps. It also runs newer games like Far Cry 4 and Watch Dogs, admittedly at low but 8th gen PC "low" presets look pretty good. The Wii U rarely does that. Claiming that the Wii U has 3x the graphical throughghput of the PS3/360 and nearly half of the X1s is  very generous of you.


Poor comparisons, as the ME ports were not well optimized for the WiiU, much like the poorly optimized AC games at launch or the Batman games. Deus Ex is about the only one that saw even a smidgen of optimization for the WiiU's architecture and capabilities.



SubiyaCryolite said:

The 5670 is a 620 GFlop card and I remember it performing much better than my Wii U in a lot of titles. Case in point ME2 and ME3 ran at 60fps (720p, could hit 900p30) while the Wii U port is capped to 30. Looking at youtube that card runs titles like Crysis 2 and Dirt 3 at High up to 1366 x 768 (> 720p) over 30fps. It also runs newer games like Far Cry 4 and Watch Dogs, admittedly at low but 8th gen PC "low" presets look pretty good. The Wii U rarely does that. Claiming that the Wii U has 3x the graphical throughghput of the PS3/360 and nearly half of the X1s is  very generous of you.

Things to consider:

1. Theoretical performance = / = real performance. This isn't to say that the Wii U's GPU. Two cards can estimate 600 gflops but have varying performance. Especially when talking about specific games and resolutions. 

2. Other components: your CPU and memory likely didn't bottleneck Mass Effect games. 

3 Wii U runs Watch Dogs.  Here is watch dogs on a 5750, I can imagine the 5670 is worse. " i am getting around 22-50fps (without fraps)" "720p"  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYzhhLzPErw

4. Late ports are rarely optimized. 

This isn't to say that the Wii U's GPU is superior to the 5670, as it is likely based on its predecessor the 4670 with modifications. Nor is it to affirm his 600 flop estimate, but I just wanted to point out that there can be many reasons why these phenomena would exist on equally capable cards. 



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Kami said:
sc94597 said:

Their opinion is the popular one you keep citing. The 170 - 350 gflop estimate comes from the collection of articles found in that post. 

And even they say;

It it worth noting at this stage that a large portion of the GPU logic is still unexplained.


What I meant is what is making their opinion the popular one? Ever wonder why it's percieved that way? That being said there is almost no evidence that supports you're theory of the Wii U GPU being 550 gigaflops. 

What makes their opinion the popular one? People look for specs and don't care about the context in their comparisons. The people who made this estimate obviously made conditional statements like, if we assume, and there is still we don't know. Then somebody who just wanted to make lists compared what they could find without understanding these conditions.  I never said the Wii U GPU is 550 gigaflops. I said that the Wii U's GPU is based on a card that outputs around 480 gigaflops, and there are just as many estimates with the Wii U's low end being 350 gigaflops and upper end being 550 gigaflops. Somebody scouring the internet will probably average both these views and choose 350 gigaflops. The truth is though, nobody knows what the upper and lower limits of the Wii U's potential is, because the GPU is not that simple. And theoretical performance doesn't always translate to real world performance. This all started because you thought the 350 gigaflop estimate was official, which prove my point. People look for an easy number to quantify things without understanding the context from which that number was found. 



SubiyaCryolite said:
Materia-Blade said:

Xenoblade has a bigger area rendered at a given time than skyrim while having much better graphics (polygons, textures,everything else). I don't know what you're trying to say with that "population" comparison, since XCX is full of things on every area. Smash is certainly more demanding than skyrim, with its 1080p 60fps and non blurry/low polygon characters.

Bayonetta 2 IS 60fps, xenoblade is clearly focusing on graphics and draw distance instead of 60fps and Wind Waker HD is 30 fps on wii u because the original game was designed that way. An increase to 60 would probably change the physics. For example, the original kingdom hearts when run on an emulator at 60fps makes objects fall twice as fast, as if doubling the fps increased the gravity.

The fact you aren't accepting is that Wii U games that aren't lazy ports/ports from lower platfroms consistently run at 720p 60fps with much better graphics than ps360 or 1080p 60fps with slightly better graphics than ps360. That's twice the average framerate and three times the average resolution (640p) for those two last gen consoles. Since ps360 had 200 gflops gpus, that easily puts wii u in the range of 600 gflops.

The 5670 is a 620 GFlop card and I remember it performing much better than my Wii U in a lot of titles. Case in point ME2 and ME3 ran at 60fps (720p, could hit 900p30) while the Wii U port is capped to 30. Looking at youtube that card runs titles like Crysis 2 and Dirt 3 at High up to 1366 x 768 (> 720p) over 30fps. It also runs newer games like Far Cry 4 and Watch Dogs, admittedly at low but 8th gen PC "low" presets look pretty good. The Wii U rarely does that. Claiming that the Wii U has 3x the graphical throughghput of the PS3/360 and nearly half of the X1s is  very generous of you.

An unoptimized port? really? Wii U has many games that run better than ME3 while being much more graphically intensive. Not that you can compare gpus like that but are you sactisfied? it's your own logic.



sc94597 said:
Kami said:


What I meant is what is making their opinion the popular one? Ever wonder why it's percieved that way? That being said there is almost no evidence that supports you're theory of the Wii U GPU being 550 gigaflops. 

What makes their opinion the popular one? People look for specs and don't care about the context in their comparisons. The people who made this estimate obviously made conditional statements like, if we assume, and there is still we don't know. Then somebody who just wanted to make lists compared what they could find without understanding these conditions.  I never said the Wii U GPU is 550 gigaflops. I said that the Wii U's GPU is based on a card that outputs around 480 gigaflops, and there are just as many estimates with the Wii U's low end being 350 gigaflops and upper end being 550 gigaflops. Somebody scouring the internet will probably average both these views and choose 350 gigaflops. The truth is though, nobody knows what the upper and lower limits of the Wii U's potential is, because the GPU is not that simple. And theoretical performance doesn't always translate to real world performance. This all started because you thought the 350 gigaflop estimate was official, which prove my point. People look for an easy number to quantify things without understanding the context from which that number was found. 

Ok so the Wii U being at most is around 550 right? You do realize that still makes it much weaker right. And earlier you said games like Xenoblade were CPU intesive. This is not 2005 games no matter what type these days are almost always GPU intesive. SO games like Xenoblade would benefit from a more powerful GPU then a CPU. 



Current Consoles: PS3, PS4, Wii U

PC Specs: i7-4770, GTX 560 Ti, 12GB 1600Mhz DDR3

Kami said:
sc94597 said:

Their opinion is the popular one you keep citing. The 170 - 350 gflop estimate comes from the collection of articles found in that post. 

And even they say;

It it worth noting at this stage that a large portion of the GPU logic is still unexplained.


What I meant is what is making their opinion the popular one? Ever wonder why it's percieved that way? That being said there is almost no evidence that supports you're theory of the Wii U GPU being 550 gigaflops. 

It's popular because people like to hate on nintendo. plus, it's not like others are making their estimation like them.



Kami said:
sc94597 said:

What makes their opinion the popular one? People look for specs and don't care about the context in their comparisons. The people who made this estimate obviously made conditional statements like, if we assume, and there is still we don't know. Then somebody who just wanted to make lists compared what they could find without understanding these conditions.  I never said the Wii U GPU is 550 gigaflops. I said that the Wii U's GPU is based on a card that outputs around 480 gigaflops, and there are just as many estimates with the Wii U's low end being 350 gigaflops and upper end being 550 gigaflops. Somebody scouring the internet will probably average both these views and choose 350 gigaflops. The truth is though, nobody knows what the upper and lower limits of the Wii U's potential is, because the GPU is not that simple. And theoretical performance doesn't always translate to real world performance. This all started because you thought the 350 gigaflop estimate was official, which prove my point. People look for an easy number to quantify things without understanding the context from which that number was found. 

Ok so the Wii U being at most is around 550 right? You do realize that still makes it much weaker right. And earlier you said games like Xenoblade were CPU intesive. This is not 2005 games no matter what type these days are almost always GPU intesive. SO games like Xenoblade would benefit from a more powerful GPU then a CPU. 

Still no.