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sc94597 on 03 March 2015
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SubiyaCryolite said:
sc94597 said:

Actually the PS4's GPU is a standard pitcairn with a few modifications (lower clockspeed, fewer shading units, etc) , but nothing like what was discovered in the analysis of the Wii U's GPU (which doesn't look very similar to an r700 that it was supposed to be based off of.) I don't know the details of the Xbone's hardware, so I won't comment on it. 

At the very conservative estimates, the Wii U's GPU is about 1.5 times (or 50%) Xenos in raw power. If we consider the extra memory bandwidth the Wii U has over the 360, then that is an even more significant difference.

Pseudoscience. What proof do you have for that claim?

Frame-rates tend to be locked. Let's say that the game runs 31 fps unlocked on a Xenos, but 45 fps on the Wii U (average) unlocked. That represents a 1.5 times difference, which if the port wasn't a straight port can go into other features (like anti-aliasing or geometry detail.) Still, they'll lock the game to 30 fps because of monitor and television standards, and dedicating resources to vsync won't be worth it.

Made up figures to suit your argument. Give actual framerates from actual games

Having said that, many 360 games run sub-HD and sub-30 fps while an overwhelming majority of games run 720p on the Wii U with a locked 30 fps.

Please list multiplats that are sub 720p on the 360 and full 720p on the Wii U

Furthermore, we see games like SSBB run at 1080p 60 fps on the Wii U.

Several Nintendo fans on VGChartz itself admit that Smash U looks like Smash Brawl running in Dolphin. This is the same game that runs on a 3DS. The game isnt pushing high poly models, stages or fancy effects by any stretch of the imagination. The PS3 has several 1080p60 games as well. Apart from Smash what games run at 1080p60?

I have a hard time believing the 360 would keep up with this, for the sole reason of memory bandwidth alone. Most of the 360's 1080p games were much simpler than SSBB. 

Examples of how Smash is so complex? Feel free to use screenshots. Figures of the Wii Us "super bandwidth" compared to the 360 would also be nice.

Notice how first party, exclusive games, which take advantage of hardware that is unique to the Wii U tend to outperform multiplats. How can you say it is intellectually dishonest to call these multiplats poor ports in reflection of that? 

Thats true for exclusives on every system, see PS3, PS4, X1 and every console known to man.

Your statement of the 360 is a N64 and Wii U is an N64 with a memory expansion is ridiculous.

How so. Given the enhancements the memory pack offered to the vanilla M64 the analogy fits perfectly. If anything, the Wii U doesnt even offer comparable gains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_accessories#Expansion_Pak

Even if we ignore raw power, the Wii U's GPU supports more modern features than the 360's, including things like hardware tesselation.

So what? The 5670HD also had Direct X11 featues bu DX10 cards like the 4870, 4850 and 4770 are still stronger. Those features are only as good as the power backing them up. The 360 also has a hardware tesselator, it was used in all Forza gamnes, which were 720p60 with 4-2x MSAA. Somethng still absent on the Wii U.

This is evident in the effects found in Wii U games. Additionally, the GPU is at the very low estimate 50% faster, and the ram amount and bandwidth is greatly excessive. The CPU is a bottleneck of course, and that is the main reason why multiplats don't run that great, but also not the only reason. 

Source for "greatly excessive" bandwidth please?



1. What proof do you have of your claims, that are scientific? 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-wii-u-graphics-power-finally-revealed

" However, the 16 TMUs at 550MHz and texture cache improvements found in RV770 do elevate the capabilities of this hardware beyond the Xenos GPU in the Xbox 360 - 1.5 times the raw shader power sounds about right. "

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171375-reverse-engineered-ps4-apu-reveals-the-consoles-real-cpu-and-gpu-specs

"This is likely a yield-boosting measure, but it also means AMD implemented a full HD 7870 in silicon. According to Chipworks, the GPU is 88 mm sq, and takes up about a third of the total die. Looking at AMD’s published figures for the HD 7870, however, the Pitcairn GPU core is a 228 mm sq part."

2. 

I gave you an example of a thought device. If you want a specific example how about we compare Bayonetta 2 to Bayonetta though. Or even the original Bayonetta (Wii U) to Bayonetta (360.) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du0eEWddqVQ&t=39

Notice the game is between 50-60 fps on Wii U and drops into the 40s regularly on the 360. 

"How does the Wii U stack up against Xbox 360 then? To put it simply: very favourably. In fact, while it's difficult to nail down a 1:1 comparison due to the game's chaotic nature, similar sequences actually suggest slightly faster overall performance on Wii U. Coupling a slightly higher frame-rate with the elimination of screen-tear results in a smoother experience overall. Frame-rate drops occur in all of the same situations as Xbox 360, but the bulk of the experience seems to maintain its 60fps target fairly well indeed."

Bayonetta 2 looks even better, and has similar performance. 

 

3.Since when are the best games on a platform which takes advantage of said platform multiplats. Again, you have failed to tell us why bad ports is a poor excuse. 

4.Smash Bros U obviously has higher polygon counts, higher res textures, and more going on the screen (eight characters) than Brawl. Furthermore, the 3DS game is heavily downgraded in just about all areas. Have you looked at them? The 1080p sports games on the 360 don't even compare. 

I'm sure there will be plenty more 1080p 60 fps games by the end of this generation. The PS3 and 360 have the advantage of being on the market for 10 years. Having said that, none of the games are as demanding as Super Smash Bros U, and many of their 1080p games run at 30fps, only pretty basic PSN/XBL games and remakes really hit the 1080p 60fps target. 

5. The burden is on you to show a 360 game as complex as SSBB that runs at 1080p 60fps. 

6. Who said otherwise? The argument is that you need to look at exclusives to see gains in performance, because ports are just that. Should we start judging the PS4/Xbone's capabilities based on their PS360 ports? Of course not. 

7."consists of 4 MB (megabytes) of random access memory (RAM) — which is RDRAM, the same type of memory used inside the console itself[1][8] — increasing the Nintendo 64 console's RAM from 4 MB to 8 MB of contiguous main memory" Is comparable to advancements in GPU power, memory bandwidth, and memory size? 

8. A more extensive feature-set allows developers to work with things much more easily. Otherwise, why add new features if the old ones were good enough? Obviously its an advantage on its own right. 

9

http://hdwarriors.com/general-impression-of-wii-u-edram-explained-by-shinen/

"‘Wii U eDRAM usage is comparable to the eDRAM in the XBOX360, but on Wii U you have enough eDRAM to use it for 1080p rendering.

In comparison, on XBOX360 you usually had to render in sub 720p resolutions or in mutliple passes."

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Wii-U-Memory-Bandwidth-GPU-More-Powerful-Than-We-Thought-62437.html

"It's been speculated that taking the information above into consideration, the Wii U's total bandwidth of gigabytes per second, including the possible 1024 bits per macro and GPU – which, according to TechPowerUp clocks in at 550mhz – would come out to around 563.2GB per second. "