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Is raising minimum wage nationwide a horrible idea?

Forums - Politics Discussion - Is raising minimum wage nationwide a horrible idea?

People who think raising minimum wage fixes things are the same idiots who think that if everyone was given a million dollars then we would all be millionaires.

Well we would all be millionaires technically speaking, but we would not be living the millionaire lifestyle. All of a sudden a gallon of milk would cost $10 or a case of beer $50. Gas would be raised to $10 a gallon, ect. The value of the dollar would decrease.



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exdeath said:
amak11 said:
I feel people really don't understand why minimum wage increases and what it should increase/decrease to in relation. Minimum wage increases because prices of basic needs have increased (these are the things we have a right to have, food and water). Minimum wage should have been adjusted with inflation but it clearly wasn't in the US. My country is doing the same now with the last minimum wage increase this past month being to 11 dollars an hour (then again it cost more to live in Canada than it does the US) but now it's being tied to inflation. .


Ramen or a sack of beans and rice and water to survive and splitting a $400 a month apartment 2 or 3 ways until you're done with school does not require $15 an hour.  IPhones and BMW leases do.

 

This isn't about survival and getting by while you proactively better yourself for the future, this is about people who wish to continue living beyond their means to keep up with their friends and neighbors and people they see on TV in material wealth and status.

 

Stop buying iPhones and bluerays and playstations and spinning rims and eating out all the time and you WONT NEED $15/hr .

 

But if you WANT $15/hr quit buying shit you don't NEED for a little while so you can afford to survive until you can earn it like everyone else who is already there.

 

People who don't understand the concept of short term sacrifice for long term prosperity will NEVER have enough to "survive" regardless of the minimum wage.  It's like these payday loan places.Quit buying cigarettes for one goddamn month and you'd be caught up.


Stop being ignorant to the real problem. Food, Rent, utilities, everything is going up in price if you can't afford to put that roof over your head and pay for school. 

Let me go down your list so I can dink off these rather rude comments from you. 

Ramen or a sack of beans and rice and water to survive and splitting a $400 a month apartment 2 or 3 ways until you're done with school does not require $15 an hour.  IPhones and BMW leases do.

Where I live, an apartment that is 400 a month to rent is non-existent. 400 dollars is YOUR share two-ways. You can't survive off beans, rice and water for 3 or 4 or more years. iPhones and BMW leases need much more than 15 an hour. You pretend to know where I live and you don't, we also taxes on virtually everything, including utilities. iPhones and BMWs suck anyways. 

This isn't about survival and getting by while you proactively better yourself for the future, this is about people who wish to continue living beyond their means to keep up with their friends and neighbors and people they see on TV in material wealth and status.

People who wish to live beond their means? So their job doesn't require a cell phone so they are in constant contact with the business? I know plenty of people who hate minimum wage and welfare and would love to go to school but they can't afford it, eating and paying rent. Most of these people fell on hard times because people like you forced your way up a corperate ladder and created a huge problem in the US. People going homeless, who want to go to school and better themselves, can't apply for loans cause they have no assets, etc. People are dying on the streets because of people like you.  

Stop buying iPhones and bluerays and playstations and spinning rims and eating out all the time and you WONT NEED $15/hr .

Again with the 15/hr bullplop. You automatically think that people who your current mimimum wage are out buying iphones, blurays, and playstations and spinning rims and eating out all the time? How ignorant are you of social class do you not see that people actually spend their money on bills and the necessities they need to survive. The people you see doing that are the ones living off mommy and daddy's dime. Those people are very materialistic and very undeserving of any job their parents help them obtain.

But if you WANT $15/hr quit buying shit you don't NEED for a little while so you can afford to survive until you can earn it like everyone else who is already there.

Why are you raging off at me about this crap? All I said is where I live ( In CANADA I might add) minimum wage is 11/hr, which is not much to survive on when rent is 8-900 dollars, utilities are 150 to 300 or more. Getting basic supplies like milk and bread are expensive in themselves. People work for their money, including me. So I suggest you change your tone with me. 

People who don't understand the concept of short term sacrifice for long term prosperity will NEVER have enough to "survive" regardless of the minimum wage.  It's like these payday loan places.Quit buying cigarettes for one goddamn month and you'd be caught up.

People who sacrificed everything and gained nothing are just rejects according to you. Okay, we have the next republican candidate right here. Hey Clone-Mitt tell us again how your plan to put people on the streets is a good one? 



This, my friends, is a result of what I call The Vicious Circle of Inflation. People always love to say inflation is good, and really, that's just bullshit. In fact, it shouldn't even be called inflation, since it's not that goods have more value. Nope, it's actually your money has less value. As they say, the same amount of gold that could buy you a really good suit in the past, will still buy you a really good suit, today. However, the same isn't true for the $50 you spent decades ago on said suit.

There are several things that add to this, but the largest contributor is the government and its poor policies. This includes printing money to cover some debts and, most importantly, over regulating and adding unnecessary new taxes onto companies. Now, some on the left will say, "Yes, those big, greedy companies deserve to pay more money than they already are." Of course, they don't take the time to think about the consequences. What happens is that these new regulations that the companies, large and small, must now meet and the new taxes that they have to pay affect not only their bottom dollar, but also their ability to expand. When that happens, companies pass these new costs onto the customers in the form of higher prices. They may also cut hours/wages, or even jobs, in lieu of (or sometimes even in conjunction with) charging higher prices.

What you have, now, are unhappy employees who are missing pay and/or people who can no longer afford to purchase products they once enjoyed (of course, many of these purchases are not necessities.) Well, the government could always go through and see what taxes are just and what regulations are 100% needed for safety, as they caused the problem, therefore taking this new burden off of companies. Of course, the government never likes to admit mistakes. In fact, they do the exact opposite, and pass more taxes and regulations almost yearly. But, to help out the employees/citizens, they increase minimum wage. In their mind, this means more money in those people's pockets and therefore things will go back to the way they were. Of course, what they just did was devalue the money, as now you need more to buy the same thing. It also has a funny affect of adding to the companies costs, again, on top of the taxes and regulations, which starts this funny little cycle all over again.

Sadly, you also have a changing mindset in America, probably worldwide, as well. People think they deserve more for doing less. This wasn't always the case. Before, people recognized minimum wage jobs were mostly meant for starting teenagers, either as a starting point to them becoming something greater or as a temporary job while they finished school. Now, we have people who think they should be able to make a decent living, and even raise a large family, flipping burgers at a fast food restaurant. What they don't realize is that, yes, they will go up to $15 an hour, BUT the prices of EVERYTHING will go up to reflect the change in wage, the increased cost of business. So, you can say goodbye to the "Dollar Menu," and say hi to the "3 Buck Menu."

And do you know who this hurts the most? The low to mid range of the middle class, who are already making ~$15+ an hour. Are they going to get a ~$7-$8 raise to reflect the change to minimum wage and prices going up? Fuck no. Businesses won't be able to afford a raise like that across the board. If they are lucky they may get $1-$2, MAYBE $3, raises. Which means, they may be doing alright, now, but once the change takes place, they are going to be struggling. They will have to budget themselves and buy less, which in turn, hurts the economy. And I wouldn't be surprised if some smaller businesses decide they have made enough money and just close down shop, which isn't what our job market needs right now, either. It's also something I'm sure those that despise mega corporations will just "love," since they will probably be some of the few who can still afford to do business.



supernihilist said:
Its simple. The lower the wage, the higher the number of employees a Company can have with the same money. Higher production with no added cost.
Thats why capitalist conglomerates always put pressure trying to push minimum wage down.

You can't have a healthy economy that way. Capitalist economy is also based heavily on consumerism. If most people can't afford more than basic goods to survive (food, water, shelter, education, energy, healthcare in US etc) then the economy would start to collapse as wealth or profits would start to disappear. Really it should be in the interests of the capitalist class to ensure people can buy their stuff but instead it's done with fake credit rather than real cash. 

Also, why would a company hire more people if labour is cheaper when it's not expanding? that makes no sense. 

Pushing down wages may sound good to you but because of constant inflation it would never work. Yet alone the opposition from unions and workers. The thing with minimum wage is to be a balance to allow people to start on decent wages to live on but also keep the balance with the constant cost of living which seems to always rise. Going to 15 is really taking it to where it should of been had wages not stagnated since the 80s. 



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Mr Khan said:

No, minimum wage is meant to alleviate poverty, which is defined as sole provider for a family of 4. That may change as dual income becomes increasingly the norm, but it is still designed that *all* of us can raise a family if we so choose. That path should not be limited to those of us fortunate enough to be on or ahead of the curve.

I don't believe that to be the case. I'm pretty sure a minimum wage is meant to prevent employers from exploiting workers, as in, paying too little for their services. And for them to be at or above the poverty line. I can find no alternative definition about one person raising a family of 4 only working minimum wage. It only applies to the workers, themselves, having a "living wage", not a whole family having a "living wage".

But let's just say that it is meant to be a wage where one income can raise a family of 4. You're gonna need a lot more than $15/hr for that, if you're the only one bringing in money. Whether it be one adult and 3 kids or one breadwinner, another adult (spouse or SO) and 2 kids, $15/hr isn't gonna cut it for those additional expenses (more food, more clothes, home utilities going up due to more people using water, electricity, etc., putting kids in school, and more) on top of paying mortgage/rent. If that's what people were asking for to raise the minimum wage, they'd be asking for $25/hr+ (not an arbitrary number. That's the average annual income of a household of 5 (2 adults, 3 kids) and being above the poverty line for what a family that size entails. Maybe reduce it to $22/hr if you get rid of one kid (2 adults, 2 kids), or get rid of one adult (1 adult, 3 kids) for that family of 4 you spoke of)). It's clear that that's not the case if they're only asking for $15/hr. Like I said, the workers just want that "extra stuff", not just to "live". And they're not entitled to that



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thismeintiel said:

This, my friends, is a result of what I call The Vicious Circle of Inflation. People always love to say inflation is good, and really, that's just bullshit. In fact, it shouldn't even be called inflation, since it's not that goods have more value. Nope, it's actually your money has less value. As they say, the same amount of gold that could buy you a really good suit in the past, will still buy you a really good suit, today. However, the same isn't true for the $50 you spent decades ago on said suit.

There are several things that add to this, but the largest contributor is the government and its poor policies. This includes printing money to cover some debts and, most importantly, over regulating and adding unnecessary new taxes onto companies. Now, some on the left will say, "Yes, those big, greedy companies deserve to pay more money than they already are." Of course, they don't take the time to think about the consequences. What happens is that these new regulations that the companies, large and small, must now meet and the new taxes that they have to pay affect not only their bottom dollar, but also their ability to expand. When that happens, companies pass these new costs onto the customers in the form of higher prices. They may also cut hours/wages, or even jobs, in lieu of (or sometimes even in conjunction with) charging higher prices.

What you have, now, are unhappy employees who are missing pay and/or people who can no longer afford to purchase products they once enjoyed (of course, many of these purchases are not necessities.) Well, the government could always go through and see what taxes are just and what regulations are 100% needed for safety, as they caused the problem, therefore taking this new burden off of companies. Of course, the government never likes to admit mistakes. In fact, they do the exact opposite, and pass more taxes and regulations almost yearly. But, to help out the employees/citizens, they increase minimum wage. In their mind, this means more money in those people's pockets and therefore things will go back to the way they were. Of course, what they just did was devalue the money, as now you need more to buy the same thing. It also has a funny affect of adding to the companies costs, again, on top of the taxes and regulations, which starts this funny little cycle all over again.

Sadly, you also have a changing mindset in America, probably worldwide, as well. People think they deserve more for doing less. This wasn't always the case. Before, people recognized minimum wage jobs were mostly meant for starting teenagers, either as a starting point to them becoming something greater or as a temporary job while they finished school. Now, we have people who think they should be able to make a decent living, and even raise a large family, flipping burgers at a fast food restaurant. What they don't realize is that, yes, they will go up to $15 an hour, BUT the prices of EVERYTHING will go up to reflect the change in wage, the increased cost of business. So, you can say goodbye to the "Dollar Menu," and say hi to the "3 Buck Menu."

And do you know who this hurts the most? The low to mid range of the middle class, who are already making ~$15+ an hour. Are they going to get a ~$7-$8 raise to reflect the change to minimum wage and prices going up? Fuck no. Businesses won't be able to afford a raise like that across the board. If they are lucky they may get $1-$2, MAYBE $3, raises. Which means, they may be doing alright, now, but once the change takes place, they are going to be struggling. They will have to budget themselves and buy less, which in turn, hurts the economy. And I wouldn't be surprised if some smaller businesses decide they have made enough money and just close down shop, which isn't what our job market needs right now, either. It's also something I'm sure those that despise mega corporations will just "love," since they will probably be some of the few who can still afford to do business.

If minimum wage and inflation is such a kneejerk relationship, then why would a minimum wage hike automatically be lost to inflation? Especially if so few people are supposedly working the minimum in the first place?



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PDF said:
outlawauron said:
PDF said:

Australia has a $15 minimum wage, yet the price of a combo meal is still comparable to the US. 

 To deny prices will rise some is niave and stupid.  However to pretend all the bill of a higher minimum wage will be footed to price is also niave and stupid.  Competition will keep companies from sharp price increases.  Instead it will be a slow rise in prices.  There won't be a skyrocket affect of inflation. 

Corporations will also benefit from consumers having more expendable cash.  SInce most companies are economies of scale, this will greatly benefit them as they will  gain more customers.

Bringing it up to $10 to match what we had in the 70's is more than doable.

No it isn't. It's not even close. I spent nearly 2 weeks in Australia and another week in New Zealand. Everything I bought was at least 50% more expensive for the same product in the US. 

I don't think anyone denies that minimum wage needs to be increased a bit, but the $15 suggestion is a joke.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/

Exchange rates must have been awful when I visited years ago, because everything was $2-3 AUD more than it would have been in USD. I remember going to low profile resturants and my meal being over $20 for a very small amount of food. Things that would expected to cost around $10 in the US.



The worst part of this thread is the immediate assumption that
A) The cost of living is the same in every state
And
B) Anyone working minimum wage is lazy, never went to some college or graduated and/or has kids that they "planned to get" (and I won't elaborate on that, use your brain).

This is why you don't have these kinds of discussions on forums of a luxury hobby.

Raising minumum wage (that high all at once) doesn't solve everything but it will definitely help people once deflation occurs and power returns to your money. All those people have to do is save their money until then and use it effectively. 



Kazus said:

The worst part of this thread is the immediate assumption that
A) The cost of living is the same in every state
And
B) Anyone working minimum wage is lazy, never went to some college or graduated and/or has kids that they "planned to get" (and I won't elaborate on that, use your brain).

This is why you don't have these kinds of discussions on forums of a luxury hobby.

Raising minumum wage (that high all at once) doesn't solve everything but it will definitely help people once deflation occurs and power returns to your money. All those people have to do is save their money until then and use it effectively. 

Nobody said people working minimum wage was "lazy", just that the job they're doing that take no skills to accomplish shouldn't be overly compensated. As for people and college, take a look here. Jobs are out there. It's on you to be qualified for it. Just because you went to school doesn't automatically mean you get a job. Art history, Philosophy, and English majors obviously went to school, but there's barely any jobs in those sectors...but those students freely chose those majors. 7.9M may seem steep (omg so many people can't get a job!), but an unemployent rate of 5.6% is pretty damned low (if all those positions were filled instantly).

And sex has consequences. If you're going out and having sex and having kids as a result, that's not society's fault; that's your fault. Society isn't responsible for your actions, you are. Whether your kids are planned or not planned, it's still your responsibility



spurgeonryan said:
Pretty much every state is talking about raising the minimum wage right now. Then what! Prices will just go up. You cannot expect to get a ton of money for doing minimum wage jobs. It is not businesses fault that you did not go to college, did not work hard, had kids, etc.

 





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