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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Pachter: Nintendo should go third party until they can make a good console

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Cross-X on 18 January 2014

LMFAO!!!

Pachter's logic here is flawless!!! What's his IQ I wonder!!



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oniyide on 18 January 2014
binary solo said:
oniyide said:
binary solo said:
oniyide said:
binary solo said:
oniyide said:
binary solo said:
Why wouldn't they just call Wii U a gen 7.5 console and make it a very short cycle releasing Wii 2 in 2015, with better specs than PS4 at a lower price? Why would you go third party only temporarily?

Even though I don't by Nintendo home consoles I would hate for them to go out of the home console hardware business, just like I thought it was a sad day that Sega went out of hardware but I never bought a Sega console.

I'll always want Playstation to have a strong generation. And I might uncharitably snigger at Nintendo (or MS) if it's are struggling. But really Nintendo being in the hardware game is much better than them not being in the hardware game.

I actually can't understand why some people salivate at the prospect of a console maker going out of business. Even with Microsoft I'm ambivalent about them staying in consoles, rather than hoping for Xbox's total demise. I don't say prayers to the console gods for Xbox to crumble and disappear. Actually what I'd prefer is for MS to sell Xbox to a third party. That way I could actually see myself possibly buying Xbox in a future generation; though not if they sold it to Apple.

do people want a console with that short of a life cycle? im thinking no

I'm thinking people mostly don't want Wii U, so the length of the Wii U console cycles is irrelevant to most people. If people keep not buying Wii U then it's gonna be a short generation anyway. Nintendo could hide thier home console losses because their handhelds carried them. But it seems 3DS isn;t carrying them at the moment.

thats fair, but im thinking it might be bad, because Sega did something similar with Saturn and 32x. I dont know about Japan and Europe but those two got cut short in the US and IMHO that is one of the main reasons that DC was never really able to take off. People will be reluctant to buy a system from a company that is known to cut support short, i know i am.

That's a good point. I don't know the Saturn / 32x story, but I think perhaps Nintendo could get away with a short cycle for WiiU partly on the basis that Wii2 would be more powerful than PS4bone and thus be seen to have better potential longevity than WiiU - not that Wii U's raw power necessarily spelt doom for it, but being less powerful than PS4bone hasn't helped, or rather being seen (rightly or wrongly) as not much more powerful than PS360 didn't help - and the fact that Nintendo has been around for a long time so people shouldn't see it as a likely pattern.

But if Nintendo merely releases a more powerful console but does nothing else different I think they will get Wii U like sales again. They basically need to convince those whose first ever console was a Wii to buy Wii 2 (or Wii U). I personally know 3 perhaps 4 families who bought Wii and had never bought a console before (probably were rather anti-video game before Wii, and in a general sense probably still are). They have absolutely no reason to want to buy a Wii U and so they won't. All the next iterations of the various Mario games isn't going to be a draw for them, they are not at all invested in the LoZ world, they don't have cherished childhood / adolescent memories of playing the heck out of Donkey Kong, they've never heard of Metroid, they think Pokemon is a TV cartoon.

It is unfortunate for Nintendo that their biggest failure with Wii was not converting vast numbers of first time game players into gamers. And I don't think they recognised this as even being something they needed to address. I think they assumed these first timers would behave exactly the same as long time gamers. Put out a new console, with upgraded versions of the things they liked on Wii and they will turn out in droves to buy the new console. They misread the situation terribly. And Nintendo should have been very worried by the fast drop off in Wii sales from 2009-2011 instead of just seeing the LTD rising far above any of the past home console, at the same time as PS3360 were getting a second wind.

Its not even about power, its not that Wii U isnt as good as PS4 or xone. but the fact that they released a console that is only a bit more powerful than a console that has been on the market for SEVEN years. that is inexcusable no matter how one wants to spin it. It should have been smack in the middle of PS360 PS4/xone MINIMUM. not closer to PS360. 

Buts that what they did try to do with the Wii U. the gamepad was supposed to be the wiimote. that didnt happen so here we are. THe thing is you just cant replicate wiimote status if it were easy everyone would do it. 

Ive heard this talk before but it was never going to happen, ever. They didnt address it because they know they CANT do it. YOur grandma who bought a Wii for sports, resort or whatever fitness crap, never cared about video games, so why would she all of a sudden? She wouldnt, shes not going to be playing COD, Street Fighter ever and she never was. I dont want to be that guy, but the situation played out exactly how i thought it would when they did the first reveal. The Wii crowd are not gamers and they were never going to be, its not in their nature, thats why they dont care about updated stuff of even the things they do like.  PS360 was always going to do ok, it was never a matter of if or when. 360 was actually ok from the jump. Sony just was just arrogant but they learned. Gamers care about the stuff those two were offering and it shows in the sales. Wii was too far behind tech wise and it was always going to catch up to them. 

I was actually thinking of the millions of non-gamer parents who bought Wii for their 5-year olds. That is, in Pacther's words, an addressable market. They just need to work out how to address them. More of the same, more or less, wasn't going to do it. And thinking a tablet controller would do it was a somewhat predictable mistake. But I also wonder if Kinect stole some of this potential market away, esp in the USA. Kinect really was an amazing phenomenon in the USA. It is directly responsible 360 eventually outselling Wii in the USA, even if it's taken more years on the market to do so. But MS should not make any assumptions about those latter day 360+Kinect buyers. They are no more likely to go for Xb one for the same reason as similar people who stuck with Wii aren't buying Wii U.

The over 40's who bought Wii for themselves are a one night stand, by and large, I agree.


but what?! if not more of the same what was going to do it. becasue i would bet they are being addressed by phones and tablets. Hell Candy Crush is more popular among women in that demograph you just described. I think Kinect effect is overblown, look at the software sales they dropped quick



crissindahouse on 18 January 2014

help sony and microsoft to sell even more consoles to have an even stronger competition when you release a new console against them. this sounds really easy to achieve.

another problem is that second and first party developers are on average much stronger as third party. nintendo would be third party then and you can't expect that they will retain the quality they have so that their franchises could stop to be considered as the best in their genre. that would mean that less people would be interested in them which would make it even harder to tell people "hey, we made the games for xbox and playstation but you have to buy a nintendo console to get the next games"



binary solo on 18 January 2014
oniyide said:
binary solo said:

I was actually thinking of the millions of non-gamer parents who bought Wii for their 5-year olds. That is, in Pacther's words, an addressable market. They just need to work out how to address them. More of the same, more or less, wasn't going to do it. And thinking a tablet controller would do it was a somewhat predictable mistake. But I also wonder if Kinect stole some of this potential market away, esp in the USA. Kinect really was an amazing phenomenon in the USA. It is directly responsible 360 eventually outselling Wii in the USA, even if it's taken more years on the market to do so. But MS should not make any assumptions about those latter day 360+Kinect buyers. They are no more likely to go for Xb one for the same reason as similar people who stuck with Wii aren't buying Wii U.

The over 40's who bought Wii for themselves are a one night stand, by and large, I agree.


but what?! if not more of the same what was going to do it. becasue i would bet they are being addressed by phones and tablets. Hell Candy Crush is more popular among women in that demograph you just described. I think Kinect effect is overblown, look at the software sales they dropped quick

I dunno, I'm not a gaming industry mogul. But I'm sure creative minds at Nintendo could have come up with something, if only they'd recognised the need to do so. They knew more of the same at the end of the GC generation would kill them in the home console space, so they came up with Wii. As I said, Nintendo's biggest failure was in assuming most of the market they created with Wii were committed to a long term relationship with them. At least that's what it looks like they assumed. And I know for sure that several VGC members made the same assumption, especially in the years when Wii sold>20 million units. In those years the future was bright and assured for several console cycles, because of reasons.

Kinect was a microcosm of Wii. It burnt bright but not long and only really in the USA. And I think it had 2 effects on Nintendo: It accelerated the decline in Wii sales in the USA; and it took potential Wii U sales away from Nintendo by getting some early gen Wii owners to move to Kinect, rather than wiaitt for Nintendo's next offering.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

oniyide on 18 January 2014
binary solo said:
oniyide said:
binary solo said:
 

I was actually thinking of the millions of non-gamer parents who bought Wii for their 5-year olds. That is, in Pacther's words, an addressable market. They just need to work out how to address them. More of the same, more or less, wasn't going to do it. And thinking a tablet controller would do it was a somewhat predictable mistake. But I also wonder if Kinect stole some of this potential market away, esp in the USA. Kinect really was an amazing phenomenon in the USA. It is directly responsible 360 eventually outselling Wii in the USA, even if it's taken more years on the market to do so. But MS should not make any assumptions about those latter day 360+Kinect buyers. They are no more likely to go for Xb one for the same reason as similar people who stuck with Wii aren't buying Wii U.

The over 40's who bought Wii for themselves are a one night stand, by and large, I agree.


but what?! if not more of the same what was going to do it. becasue i would bet they are being addressed by phones and tablets. Hell Candy Crush is more popular among women in that demograph you just described. I think Kinect effect is overblown, look at the software sales they dropped quick

I dunno, I'm not a gaming industry mogul. But I'm sure creative minds at Nintendo could have come up with something, if only they'd recognised the need to do so. They knew more of the same at the end of the GC generation would kill them in the home console space, so they came up with Wii. As I said, Nintendo's biggest failure was in assuming most of the market they created with Wii were committed to a long term relationship with them. At least that's what it looks like they assumed. And I know for sure that several VGC members made the same assumption, especially in the years when Wii sold>20 million units. In those years the future was bright and assured for several console cycles, because of reasons.

Kinect was a microcosm of Wii. It burnt bright but not long and only really in the USA. And I think it had 2 effects on Nintendo: It accelerated the decline in Wii sales in the USA; and it took potential Wii U sales away from Nintendo by getting some early gen Wii owners to move to Kinect, rather than wiaitt for Nintendo's next offering.

Oh i think they have recognized. They cant do it, if they could they would have. Naw they knew they werent commited which is probably why they stopped with the WIi and went with the WII U and its pad. Otherwise they would have just done a WIi 2. Only a crazy person would have thought it would be assured for several cycles.

It did have an effect on WIi in the US fair enough, but not on WIi U. Kinect was long done before WIi U hit the shelves, their not even the same thing.



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binary solo on 18 January 2014
oniyide said:
binary solo said:
oniyide said:
binary solo said:
 

I was actually thinking of the millions of non-gamer parents who bought Wii for their 5-year olds. That is, in Pacther's words, an addressable market. They just need to work out how to address them. More of the same, more or less, wasn't going to do it. And thinking a tablet controller would do it was a somewhat predictable mistake. But I also wonder if Kinect stole some of this potential market away, esp in the USA. Kinect really was an amazing phenomenon in the USA. It is directly responsible 360 eventually outselling Wii in the USA, even if it's taken more years on the market to do so. But MS should not make any assumptions about those latter day 360+Kinect buyers. They are no more likely to go for Xb one for the same reason as similar people who stuck with Wii aren't buying Wii U.

The over 40's who bought Wii for themselves are a one night stand, by and large, I agree.


but what?! if not more of the same what was going to do it. becasue i would bet they are being addressed by phones and tablets. Hell Candy Crush is more popular among women in that demograph you just described. I think Kinect effect is overblown, look at the software sales they dropped quick

I dunno, I'm not a gaming industry mogul. But I'm sure creative minds at Nintendo could have come up with something, if only they'd recognised the need to do so. They knew more of the same at the end of the GC generation would kill them in the home console space, so they came up with Wii. As I said, Nintendo's biggest failure was in assuming most of the market they created with Wii were committed to a long term relationship with them. At least that's what it looks like they assumed. And I know for sure that several VGC members made the same assumption, especially in the years when Wii sold>20 million units. In those years the future was bright and assured for several console cycles, because of reasons.

Kinect was a microcosm of Wii. It burnt bright but not long and only really in the USA. And I think it had 2 effects on Nintendo: It accelerated the decline in Wii sales in the USA; and it took potential Wii U sales away from Nintendo by getting some early gen Wii owners to move to Kinect, rather than wiaitt for Nintendo's next offering.

Oh i think they have recognized. They cant do it, if they could they would have. Naw they knew they werent commited which is probably why they stopped with the WIi and went with the WII U and its pad. Otherwise they would have just done a WIi 2. Only a crazy person would have thought it would be assured for several cycles.

It did have an effect on WIi in the US fair enough, but not on WIi U. Kinect was long done before WIi U hit the shelves, their not even the same thing.

And so were the people who bought Kinect, who otherwise might have been willing to give WiiU a go. Which is why Kinect did have a depressing effect on the Wii U's market potential in the USA. Can't say the same about Europe and the rest of the world though. Peeople just went off the boil for Wii and no one was converted into a console gamer.

So are we bascially back to the core console gamer being 90% of the console market for gen 8, and Wii U having to fight to get GC level sales, because that's about as much of the core console gamer market to whom Nintendo appeals? And total console sales is probably going to be at about gen 6 level, but more evenly distributed between PS4 and xb one.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Moren on 18 January 2014

We have the Official NintenDOOMination Thread for topics like these.



oniyide on 19 January 2014
binary solo said:
oniyide said:
binary solo said:
oniyide said:
binary solo said:
 

I was actually thinking of the millions of non-gamer parents who bought Wii for their 5-year olds. That is, in Pacther's words, an addressable market. They just need to work out how to address them. More of the same, more or less, wasn't going to do it. And thinking a tablet controller would do it was a somewhat predictable mistake. But I also wonder if Kinect stole some of this potential market away, esp in the USA. Kinect really was an amazing phenomenon in the USA. It is directly responsible 360 eventually outselling Wii in the USA, even if it's taken more years on the market to do so. But MS should not make any assumptions about those latter day 360+Kinect buyers. They are no more likely to go for Xb one for the same reason as similar people who stuck with Wii aren't buying Wii U.

The over 40's who bought Wii for themselves are a one night stand, by and large, I agree.


but what?! if not more of the same what was going to do it. becasue i would bet they are being addressed by phones and tablets. Hell Candy Crush is more popular among women in that demograph you just described. I think Kinect effect is overblown, look at the software sales they dropped quick

I dunno, I'm not a gaming industry mogul. But I'm sure creative minds at Nintendo could have come up with something, if only they'd recognised the need to do so. They knew more of the same at the end of the GC generation would kill them in the home console space, so they came up with Wii. As I said, Nintendo's biggest failure was in assuming most of the market they created with Wii were committed to a long term relationship with them. At least that's what it looks like they assumed. And I know for sure that several VGC members made the same assumption, especially in the years when Wii sold>20 million units. In those years the future was bright and assured for several console cycles, because of reasons.

Kinect was a microcosm of Wii. It burnt bright but not long and only really in the USA. And I think it had 2 effects on Nintendo: It accelerated the decline in Wii sales in the USA; and it took potential Wii U sales away from Nintendo by getting some early gen Wii owners to move to Kinect, rather than wiaitt for Nintendo's next offering.

Oh i think they have recognized. They cant do it, if they could they would have. Naw they knew they werent commited which is probably why they stopped with the WIi and went with the WII U and its pad. Otherwise they would have just done a WIi 2. Only a crazy person would have thought it would be assured for several cycles.

It did have an effect on WIi in the US fair enough, but not on WIi U. Kinect was long done before WIi U hit the shelves, their not even the same thing.

And so were the people who bought Kinect, who otherwise might have been willing to give WiiU a go. Which is why Kinect did have a depressing effect on the Wii U's market potential in the USA. Can't say the same about Europe and the rest of the world though. Peeople just went off the boil for Wii and no one was converted into a console gamer.

So are we bascially back to the core console gamer being 90% of the console market for gen 8, and Wii U having to fight to get GC level sales, because that's about as much of the core console gamer market to whom Nintendo appeals? And total console sales is probably going to be at about gen 6 level, but more evenly distributed between PS4 and xb one.

We're going ot have to agree to disagree on the first part. The kinect and WIi U arent even clost ot the same kind of device. Dont know why someone who would want a hands free device want some tablet controller as a substitute. People dont want the Wii U, period. 

Honestly it looks that way. I cant think of anything else. Doesnt seem like Ninty could mess with Sony or even MS in this field. Hell they had a year headstart. A YEAR! Dont even know what they could have done. The writing was on the wall probably as far back as when PS1 hit the scene.



ICStats on 19 January 2014

I don't believe that Nintendo is under the gun to do something drastic soon or die, so I think their action will depend on how they think a future Nintendo console will do.

a) Do they have a future concept in mind they think will be killer?
b) Do they have no idea, but are hopeful they could in a couple of years?
c) Do they start to think think that it's the beginning of the end of Nintendo consoles?

Obviously if it's 'c' then I think you will see them do a Sega soon.  It wouldn't make sense to wait.  But if we don't see that, then I think we know that Nintendo is still hopeful for a future product.



My 8th gen collection

Cobretti2 on 19 January 2014
Skeeuk said:
Nintendo games played with real controllers would be neat, I think they should go third party, the games will be much better, more people can play them and Nintendo fans can carry on enjoying those games on proper console's


sigh