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Forums - General Discussion - If you are against gay marriage, explain why without mentioning religion

 

Are you for or against gay marriage?

For 290 49.49%
 
Against 171 29.18%
 
don't know 16 2.73%
 
whatever who cares? 108 18.43%
 
Total:585
BasilZero said:
MrBubbles said:
ps. all christians are idolators and are going to hell


Was that really necessary especially from the fact that the OP stated dont mention religion ~-~

they may not be been quoted or mentioned in my post but it was directed to someone who mentioned idolatry (also, its true only insofar as based on their own beliefs since hell doesnt exist for them to go to)



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Player1x3 said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
Player1x3 said:
Andrespetmonkey said:

Do you know how many ancient societies allowed pedophilia by modern standards? A lot more than those that didn't, not that that's to say it makes it morally right, but to say they weren't exactly low on the morality spectrum. Anyway, this is irrelevant to my point, which is that the acceptence and documentation of homosexuality is not an exclusively modern phenomenon in the western world. My point has nothing to do with rights and wrongs.


Well then, we should be glad Christianity ended stuff like that in the Western World :)

I'm not one for oppression and persecution of innocent people, but you can be glad at whatever you want mate.

Im glad it brought end to slavery, pedophilia, animal/human sacriface, homosexuality among leaders and generals, paganism and idoltary.  Altho, I admit it brough quite the few problems as well, mostly coming from the corrupted leaders

It certainly didn't end slavery or pedophilia. 

You'd have to be very naive to think it stopped homosexuality among leaders and generals. All it stopped is it being publicly known. 

"quite a few problems" is a vast understatement, but don't interpret that as a bash against christianity, I recognise that the actual religious guidance/philosophy isn't strictly at fault. Corrupted leaders as you mention, for example, are a big part of it. 



Kantor said:
I support it myself, but the only sensible idea I have heard is that marriage is a religious institution, so it should follow religious laws.

In which case, it should have no government recognition, and a government-recognised life partnership should be open to any two (or, hell, more than two) consenting adults.


Exactly, but i would argue even the government recognized life partnership is unecessary.  The only reason government has anything to do with marriage right now is they added tax breaks into the tax code so that they could regulate marriage.  Just eliminate marriage completely from the tax code and get government completely out of marriage.  

People shouldnt have to pay a fee and get a license from the government in order to commit to each other!



You should be asking: "In what way are you for or against gay marriage?", as you can have both a personal opinion and an opinion with regard to politics or to the public.  For instance, I answered the poll question as "against" due to me personally being against it, but legally it is an entirely different matter.

My personal feelings are that, within my family, and with regards to raising my children, I will not tolerate homosexual marriage, and it will not be discussed or given any credibility in my home. Homosexual behavior ceases procreation, and therefore it serves no meaningful purpose, and is merely a social act with no significance.

Since government is involved, and that won't be changing anytime soon, my political opinion is that homosexuals cannot be prohibited from a legal marriage, as a government/ paper marriage is meaningless in the eyes of everything except the law, so therefore what does it matter to heterosexuals like myself if homosexuals commit to a legal marriage or not? I don't like it, I never will, but there isn't any reasonable legal basis for prohibiting it.

I should add, though, as I have in other threads about "gay marriage", that it is quite a double-standard for the people who advocate for these so-called "gay rights" when most of them would be horrified at the thought of legalizing plural marriage. I don't see any difference between the two. If marriage is something that is perfectly suitable to non-heterosexual people, why is it so bad for non-monogamous people to be legally wed? You support homosexual rights but not non-monogamous rights?



 

I think in some (most?) countries you get "special" rights when you are married. Most of those rights are based on the thought you will stay together, share apartment/house and most likely become parents I think. That last thing is a no in gay marriage. You can adopt children but you are not "making new ones".
But yeah, most people are just against it because of religion (but still don't care about weapons, for example...) or because it's "different".
Let people do whatever they want. But if there are special rights for "normal" marriages, kick those out of the rights of gay marriages, maybe create different ones. They will still cry not being totally equal but hey ....



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Andrespetmonkey said:
Player1x3 said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
Player1x3 said:
Andrespetmonkey said:

Do you know how many ancient societies allowed pedophilia by modern standards? A lot more than those that didn't, not that that's to say it makes it morally right, but to say they weren't exactly low on the morality spectrum. Anyway, this is irrelevant to my point, which is that the acceptence and documentation of homosexuality is not an exclusively modern phenomenon in the western world. My point has nothing to do with rights and wrongs.


Well then, we should be glad Christianity ended stuff like that in the Western World :)

I'm not one for oppression and persecution of innocent people, but you can be glad at whatever you want mate.

Im glad it brought end to slavery, pedophilia, animal/human sacriface, homosexuality among leaders and generals, paganism and idoltary.  Altho, I admit it brough quite the few problems as well, mostly coming from the corrupted leaders

It certainly didn't end slavery or pedophilia. 

Of course it did Andre :)

http://medicolegal.tripod.com/catholicsvslavery.htm

You'd have to be very naive to think it stopped homosexuality among leaders and generals. All it stopped is it being publicly known. 

Good enough for me lol :P

"quite a few problems" is a vast understatement, but don't interpret that as a bash against christianity, I recognise that the actual religious guidance/philosophy isn't strictly at fault. Corrupted leaders as you mention, for example, are a big part of it. 

I agree





sperrico87 said:

You should be asking: "In what way are you for or against gay marriage?", as you can have both a personal opinion and an opinion with regard to politics or to the public.

My personal feelings are that, within my family, and with regards to raising my children, I will not tolerate homosexual marriage, and it will not be discussed or given any credibility in my home. Homosexual behavior ceases procreation, and therefore it serves no meaningful purpose, and is merely a social act with no significance.

Since government is involved, and that won't be changing anytime soon, my political opinion is that homosexuals cannot be prohibited from a legal marriage, as a government/ paper marriage is meaningless in the eyes of everything except the law, so therefore what does it matter to heterosexuals like myself if homosexuals commit to a legal marriage or not? I don't like it, I never will, but there isn't any reasonable legal basis for prohibiting it.

I should add, though, as I have in other threads about "gay marriage", that it is quite a double-standard for the people who advocate for these so-called "gay rights" when most of them would be horrified at the thought of legalizing plural marriage. I don't see any difference between the two. If marriage is something that is perfectly suitable to non-heterosexual people, why is it so bad for non-monogamous people to be legally wed? You support homosexual rights but not non-monogamous rights?

Let me first say that I don't think gays are bad people and that I think they deserve just as much respect as anyone else.

With that said I am for Civil Unions for gays that come with all the same legal amenities as marriage. What I mean is that it wouldn't be called Marriage, but it would be like it in a legal sense.

The reason for this is I look at the natural world as having a purpose. Men and woman have sexual organs for procreation. That is why we are sexually attracted to each other, to have sex and make babies. Marriage is the result of human culture responding to human nature. Male and female fit together in nature. I'm not of the opinion that this is a choice so I don't judge people for being gay, but at the same time I don't believe that it is what humans are supposed to be.

With that said I would actually prefer it if the government would get out of marriage almost completely. The only reason that the government regulates marriage is for tax reasons. In my opinion there should be very few laws regarding marriage and the only one I can think of right now is minimum age of consent. If the government wasn't involved then anyone could "marry" anyone they want so long as they are of legal age. It would be a civil contract between two people just like it used to be hundreds of years ago. Religious people would get married in a church before God and non-religious people would just sign a standard marriage contract and have any kind of ceremony they want. This would let gays consider themselves really married and people who don't like it can just choose not to consider it real marriage.

A piece of paper from the government granting legal license doesn't really matter two the two people who love each other and are devoted to each other. Cut out the government and marriage is what ever the people choose to consider it between themselves. If that marriage comes to and end it would be no different than two business partners splitting assets in the closing of a hardware store.

Put simply, I want the government out of our lives, but since that won't happen I'm for Gay Civil Unions instead of Gay Marriage based on the natural purpose male and female reproduction.



I don't think it's possible to talk about marriage without bringing up religion. The only reason marriage exists is because it is a religious commandment.

Without religion there is no reason to be against gay marriage or even to be in favor of hetero marriage for that matter.



Muffin31190 said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
Player1x3 said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
 

 

 

 

Or u could Just look at the history of the most influential person in Greek History and see that the video is Just BS. Alexander the Great, and if u dont know about him .. well He was Gay, pretty much every historian has come to that agreement that he was either a Homosexual or atleast Bisexual, So yeah homosexuality definitely looked down upon in Ancient Greece<---(sarcasm).
And i would have liked to believe the video that was posted (for the sake of historical fact) But none of the Statments made in the video were sourced, so the whole thing could have just been an opinion.

I don't know how homosexuality was looked upon in ancient greece.... since ya know... I dont live in that era. However, it is a huge misconceptopn that homosexuality was widely practiced by them. I know that Plato and Aristotle frowned upon it and that the works were refrenced in the video too. Both my wifes ancient greek and my ancient greek philosophy professor have said the same thing.



kain_kusanagi said:

Let me first say that I don't think gays are bad people and that I think they deserve just as much respect as anyone else.

With that said I am for Civil Unions for gays that come with all the same legal amenities as marriage. What I mean is that it wouldn't be called Marriage, but it would be like it in a legal sense.

The reason for this is I look at the natural world as having a purpose. Men and woman have sexual organs for procreation. That is why we are sexually attracted to each other, to have sex and make babies. Marriage is the result of human culture responding to human nature. Male and female fit together in nature. I'm not of the opinion that this is a choice so I don't judge people for being gay, but at the same time I don't believe that it is what humans are supposed to be.

With that said I would actually prefer it if the government would get out of marriage almost completely. The only reason that the government regulates marriage is for tax reasons. In my opinion there should be very few laws regarding marriage and the only one I can think of right now is minimum age of consent. If the government wasn't involved then anyone could "marry" anyone they want so long as they are of legal age. It would be a civil contract between two people just like it used to be hundreds of years ago. Religious people would get married in a church before God and non-religious people would just sign a standard marriage contract and have any kind of ceremony they want. This would let gays consider themselves really married and people who don't like it can just choose not to consider it real marriage.

A piece of paper from the government granting legal license doesn't really matter two the two people who love each other and are devoted to each other. Cut out the government and marriage is what ever the people choose to consider it between themselves. If that marriage comes to and end it would be no different than two business partners splitting assets in the closing of a hardware store.

Put simply, I want the government out of our lives, but since that won't happen I'm for Gay Civil Unions instead of Gay Marriage based on the natural purpose male and female reproduction.

I think this is very reasonable and well rounded. I'd vote for you in an election!! Great post IMO.