| Trunkin said: I've always found it strange that in a series such as ASOIF where there is supposedly no black and white... |
There's plenty of black and white in the series. Especially black. What makes you think otherwise?
| Trunkin said: I've always found it strange that in a series such as ASOIF where there is supposedly no black and white... |
There's plenty of black and white in the series. Especially black. What makes you think otherwise?
So after finishing season 2 on TV, I read them all really quickly, so I can't specify a favourite book, but I enjoyed all of them! Despite getting a bit confused....
As for the theories I think the "R+L=J" is true, I definitely like to think that there is 1 honourable man in Westeros...
I also thoroughly believe that Young Griff is real
I feel my memory is too poor to remember all the fine details, I will probably have to re-read them all before he releases the next book (that, and keep watching the tv series)
My favorite novel is ACOK. I really love the climax of the war of the five kings and think it should have lasted longer, just like Ned's ordeals in King's Landing. As GOT stood I almost got the feeling of a tragic shakesperean feudal lord lost in a renaissance court and making mistake after mistake just for the sake of having him dying by the end.
Anyways ASOIAF is a very funny series because it stands at the top of the counter-wave of LOTR-styled fantasy who want the rid the genre of it's usual tropes, courtesy of decades of authors ripping off Tolkien, and a perceived idealism who honestly doesn't exist (like Aragorn not being accepted as king firsthand and Frodo succumbing to the ring before the end).
As consequence a lot of people have learned to expect the absolute, most gritty things ever from ASOIAF now when it's clear to be the author didn't intend the series to look like that, when seen as a whole (maybe only the first part who extends to the red wedding only, the original GOT when the series was a trilogy).
I mean... Jon's parentage, the whole Azor Azhai stuff, Dany's dreams about Jon... the series was hinting at a standard epic ending where they are united as lovers and defeat the evil beyond the wall. I can see Jon forging his epic lightbringer (man look at the name of that) on Dany's heart and such, like the legend. I really do. And maybe a true Aegon at the throne after being introduced in the by-then second book, ADWD. Now who knows what GRRM might pull because of these expectancies...
P.S. For those who do not know the last book originally was called "A Time for Wolves". Do you have any doubt a Stark reunion was going to happen, alongside most of what I mentioned above?
| Kantor said: I think the most interesting controversy at the moment is whether Young Griff/Aegon VI is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen, a Blackfyre pretender, or Magister Illyrio's son. The most considerable evidence for him being the real thing is what Varys said to Kevan right at the end of A Dance With Dragons, when nobody else could hear and when Kevan was about to die. He described Aegon and said that he had received training worthy of a king and had landed in Westeros. This seems to confirm that Aegon is alive, and although it doesn't confirm that he is Young Griff, it seems unlikely that he could be anything else. Jon Connington seems to believe it, but that's not much evidence of anything. Daenerys has a vision of a "mummer's dragon", but this is ambiguous. It could either mean: a) He isn't a real dragon at all, and therefore not a Targaryen b) He is a dragon, and the mummer in question is Varys, who is certainly controlling him to some degree. He also has the Targaryen features, but so do the Daynes and people from Lys, and I'm sure many others. Because of the first bit, however, I still lean towards believing that he is the real Aegon. |
I'm pretty sure he's a Blackfyre. It's consistent with everything we know: the Golden Company's sole purpose was to overthrow the Targaryens and impose a Blackfyre on th Iron Throne, Varys (Aegon's supporter) was doing as much as he could to undermine the Targaryens when they were still on the throne (and doing a good job of stoking the fires Robert was hellbent on creating), and while the male line of the Blackfyres died out, they were oddly specific in omitting any mention of the female line.
There's also that passage in Crows about how the Blackfyre's emblem was washed away after the end of their rebellion, and when it was found decades later it had turned red with rust (and thus looked like the Targaryen's emblem). In a series so filled with symbolism, I find that passage persuasive.
noname2200 said:
There's plenty of black and white in the series. Especially black. What makes you think otherwise? |
I phrased that pretty poorly. What I meant was that no character or family in the series is purely black or purely white, just different shades of gray. Although, now that I think about it, Joffrey and Ramsay kind of poke a hole in that assumption.

| KylieDog said: Stannis is not still at the wall, did you somehow miss his entire march to Deepwood Motte and then to Winterfell? |
I am not sure he really matters, he is surely about to die...
Also, who is left in the north to fight, they just seem to die constantly
Trunkin said:
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Some shades of grey are light or dark enough though, just as much as in other series. It becomes really hard to generate reader empathy and grip them to the story otherwise. Most POVs are essentially good characters, for instance; I think the difference relies on it being a cynical rather than idealistic instance by sheer necessity for most people in the series.
Trunkin said:
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Yeah, I'd argue that some characters are pretty much all of one or the other. Ramsay is the obvious example of black, but there's not much redeeming Gregor or the slavers in Essos either. I also have a hard time seeing much good in Caster or Walder Frey. Conversely, I'd argue that Ned and Jon in particular are pretty "white": their failings come in the area of competence (Ned) or inexperience (Jon) rather than moral failings. Brienne and especially Sam fall under this spectrum too, in my opinion.
| KylieDog said: Stannis is not still at the wall, did you somehow miss his entire march to Deepwood Motte and then to Winterfell? |
Stannis was last seen at the wall if you prefer. He is currently in some unspecified place in the North until you read the initial sample chapter from The Winds of Winter. Is it worth amending that?
| KylieDog said: So anyone want to hear a well though out theory on the return of Khal Drogo? |
Viserys, Drogo and Rhaego reincarnated as their respective dragons. It is known.