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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Worst Moves in History (Nintendo)

Godchild1020 said:

While not many people will agree with me, but I'm going to say the Wii U. They are doing the same thing they did with the Wii and they will very well do it again with their next console after the Wii U. While it worked out well with the Wii and it might work again for the Wii U, but it hurts them in the long run with third party developers. It also hurts them when their console is weaker than the other consoles, when the other two release their next gen console (That is to be known, once they announce theirs). It may be stronger than the current gen consoles, but not the console that has longevity with Third Party.

I know the console is great and the Gamepad is top notch. The apps and the games to come from their Nintendo and their first party studios will be a complaining reason to purchase the console, if you haven't already or have any interest in the console or the games.

I don´t agree with you for one reason - it is far too early to judge the WiiU. I don´t see how 3rd party support will be hurt with the WiiU, it can´t get worse than with the Wii and actually is already better.



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Soundwave said:
selnor said:
Soundwave said:
DieAppleDie said:
Nintendo did not refuse to use CDrom on the N64, they couldnt find a partner in time to meet the deadline


Blatantly false. Not only did they have a CD-ROM deal with Sony which they went back on, they had one with Philips as well. 

Sony got greedy. Nintendo didnt turn on them. It was the other way around. Obviously it worked for Sony. 

Part of me thinks although both Japanese if Ninty stopped Hardware they would climb in bed with MS as Sony F**Ked them over all those years ago.

 

This is actually not true. What people gloss over is that there actually where THREE deals Nintendo signed for the CD format --

1988 -- Signed with Sony. Someone in Nintendo's legal department made a boo-boo apparently, because the contract gave Sony a large chunk of CD licensing fees. 

1991 -- At the June CES show, Nintendo floors Sony by making an announcement with rival Philips the day after the Super NES Playstation is announced. 

1992 -- Sony and Nintendo reconcile. Sony agrees that Nintendo gets all software royalties. The deal would allow Sony to make a Super NES + CD-ROM hybrid (the Playstation), but this wasn't a big deal, there were Famicom + Disk System combos made by Sharp in the 80s for the Japanese market as well. 

1993 -- Nintendo basically cans all development in any CD tech, basically riding out their Philips deal by letting them release some token Mario/Zelda games for the Philips cd-i (Hotel Mario, etc.). In August 1993, Nintendo reaches an agreement with Silicon Graphics to create a next-generation system dubbed Project: Reality, which will be cartridge based. Sony, reeling from being cut out of any partnership with Nintendo opts to go on and make their own game system, the Playstation.

Also a myth. Sony wanted more at the end. Nintendo didnt want to give them that much. The actual PS design was originally penned by Nintendo. It released in exactly the same design. They literally left all on the table and restarted completely. Trying to source with Phillips. Which was taking to long so Nintendo ad no choice to keep to an already late schedule to the generation and go with the familiar cartridges. 

Although expensive cartridges are the best choice even today. N64 ( admitadely with an amazing compression engine ) fit 2 PS CD Roms onto a a mammot 512mb Cart in Resi 2. With R&D cartridge size could be huge today. Although game costs would rise to that of the Snes and N64 era. Overtime though it surely would get cheaper to make. 

But thats another story. I do miss no load times at all. Robustness and awesome looking carts. But this is really a pipe dream.



killer7 said:
@Sensei
"WiiU being inferior to PS3 and 360"
Sorry but this is not true! The WiiU has 2 GB RAM 1 GB for Gaming wich is still more than the PS3 or the 360! The Randeon HD 4000 series wich is in the U is more powerfull than the Cell and the WiiU has HDMI 1.4! Yes the processor is a bit weak but the clock rate isn´t everything!


Althoug I agree with you. Your comparing a GPU to a CPU. You should be comparing the Radeon to RSX in PS3 which it beats very well. In fact te Wii U CPU is also more capable than the Cell CPU.



selnor said:
Soundwave said:
selnor said:
Soundwave said:
DieAppleDie said:
Nintendo did not refuse to use CDrom on the N64, they couldnt find a partner in time to meet the deadline


Blatantly false. Not only did they have a CD-ROM deal with Sony which they went back on, they had one with Philips as well. 

Sony got greedy. Nintendo didnt turn on them. It was the other way around. Obviously it worked for Sony. 

Part of me thinks although both Japanese if Ninty stopped Hardware they would climb in bed with MS as Sony F**Ked them over all those years ago.

 

This is actually not true. What people gloss over is that there actually where THREE deals Nintendo signed for the CD format --

1988 -- Signed with Sony. Someone in Nintendo's legal department made a boo-boo apparently, because the contract gave Sony a large chunk of CD licensing fees. 

1991 -- At the June CES show, Nintendo floors Sony by making an announcement with rival Philips the day after the Super NES Playstation is announced. 

1992 -- Sony and Nintendo reconcile. Sony agrees that Nintendo gets all software royalties. The deal would allow Sony to make a Super NES + CD-ROM hybrid (the Playstation), but this wasn't a big deal, there were Famicom + Disk System combos made by Sharp in the 80s for the Japanese market as well. 

1993 -- Nintendo basically cans all development in any CD tech, basically riding out their Philips deal by letting them release some token Mario/Zelda games for the Philips cd-i (Hotel Mario, etc.). In August 1993, Nintendo reaches an agreement with Silicon Graphics to create a next-generation system dubbed Project: Reality, which will be cartridge based. Sony, reeling from being cut out of any partnership with Nintendo opts to go on and make their own game system, the Playstation.

Also a myth. Sony wanted more at the end. Nintendo didnt want to give them that much. The actual PS design was originally penned by Nintendo. It released in exactly the same design. They literally left all on the table and restarted completely. Trying to source with Phillips. Which was taking to long so Nintendo ad no choice to keep to an already late schedule to the generation and go with the familiar cartridges. 

Although expensive cartridges are the best choice even today. N64 ( admitadely with an amazing compression engine ) fit 2 PS CD Roms onto a a mammot 512mb Cart in Resi 2. With R&D cartridge size could be huge today. Although game costs would rise to that of the Snes and N64 era. Overtime though it surely would get cheaper to make. 

But thats another story. I do miss no load times at all. Robustness and awesome looking carts. But this is really a pipe dream.

No offense, but you're making a lot of this up. There is no source for any of that. I have EGM magazines from this era, and the different deals between Sony and Philips are well documented on the internet. 

These are revisionist histories that certain Nintendo fans make up to make themselves feel better (ie: Nintendo designed the Playstation, lol, blantant lie). 

Nintendo was arrogant and stubborn and chose to stick with cartridges. And they got their butts whupped as a result and lost most of their third party backing, something that haunts them to this day. 

Sony didn't trick Nintendo into anything. Even after Nintendo backed out of the CD deal, Sony's execs were reluctant to challenge Nintendo and Ken Kutaragi had to basically beg the Sony higher ups to let him make a Playstation console (which had nothing to do with the SNES CD-ROM hybrid). Nintendo took their dominance in the game industry for granted and dared third parties to go elsewhere -- and they went right into Sony's lap. 



@selnor
It is sad that still people think (wish) the WiiU is weaker than the PS3! But i would not bash the WiiU too hard:

http://gamingbolt.com/sce-executive-ps4-may-not-have-better-graphics-than-the-ps3

I am NOT a fanboy- i own every Playstation console!



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KHlover said:
Godchild1020 said:

While not many people will agree with me, but I'm going to say the Wii U. They are doing the same thing they did with the Wii and they will very well do it again with their next console after the Wii U. While it worked out well with the Wii and it might work again for the Wii U, but it hurts them in the long run with third party developers. It also hurts them when their console is weaker than the other consoles, when the other two release their next gen console (That is to be known, once they announce theirs). It may be stronger than the current gen consoles, but not the console that has longevity with Third Party.

I know the console is great and the Gamepad is top notch. The apps and the games to come from their Nintendo and their first party studios will be a complaining reason to purchase the console, if you haven't already or have any interest in the console or the games.

I don´t agree with you for one reason - it is far too early to judge the WiiU. I don´t see how 3rd party support will be hurt with the WiiU, it can´t get worse than with the Wii and actually is already better.

I forget the term, but the meaning is similar to this example. Say Nintendo releases a console one way and then again the same way a few years later. They leed the people or the consumers to think they will do it again. Or maybe this one works better; A bus comes at 3 o'clock on Tuesday for the past 3 weeks, the fourth Tuesday comes up and you think it will come again at 3 o'clock. there is a term for it. At least I think I'm exampling it correctly.

Anyway, what I trying to get at is; that if you do something one way consecutively, people will start or expect for you to do the same thing every time. They came with innovative controls, but not enough power to last as long as the other consoles in the same generation. Just check out  Sony and Microsoft, you expect them to come out with high powered consoles next gen, because of their past.

Another note is that the Wii did have a good share of 3rd party support, but not enough to make it a viable choice when going for Multi-platform games, because of the lack of power. The Wii was and still is a great system, but lacked the power to compete with the PS3 and 360. I can only expect the same thing in the 8th gen, but that is to be seen when Sony and Microsoft announce their next console.

I'm just saying the power in the console is what is going to hold it back with developers in a few years. And Nintendo will end up launching another console in 5-6 years, when Sony and Microsoft will hold off for about 8-10 years. But they have every right to do so. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I just think it something that will happen because of their past.



Godchild1020 said:
KHlover said:
Godchild1020 said:

While not many people will agree with me, but I'm going to say the Wii U. They are doing the same thing they did with the Wii and they will very well do it again with their next console after the Wii U. While it worked out well with the Wii and it might work again for the Wii U, but it hurts them in the long run with third party developers. It also hurts them when their console is weaker than the other consoles, when the other two release their next gen console (That is to be known, once they announce theirs). It may be stronger than the current gen consoles, but not the console that has longevity with Third Party.

I know the console is great and the Gamepad is top notch. The apps and the games to come from their Nintendo and their first party studios will be a complaining reason to purchase the console, if you haven't already or have any interest in the console or the games.

I don´t agree with you for one reason - it is far too early to judge the WiiU. I don´t see how 3rd party support will be hurt with the WiiU, it can´t get worse than with the Wii and actually is already better.

I forget the term, but the meaning is similar to this example. Say Nintendo releases a console one way and then again the same way a few years later. They lead the people or the consumers to think they will do it again. Or maybe this one works better; A bus comes at 3 o'clock on Tuesday for the past 3 weeks, the fourth Tuesday comes up and you think it will come again at 3 o'clock. there is a term for it. At least I think I'm exampling it correctly.

Anyway, what I trying to get at is; that if you do something one way consecutively, people will start or expect for you to do the same thing every time. They came with innovative controls, but not enough power to last as long as the other consoles in the same generation. Just check out  Sony and Microsoft, you expect them to come out with high powered consoles next gen, because of their past.

Another note is that the Wii did have a good share of 3rd party support, but not enough to make it a viable choice when going for Multi-platform games, because of the lack of power. The Wii was and still is a great system, but lacked the power to compete with the PS3 and 360. I can only expect the same thing in the 8th gen, but that is to be seen when Sony and Microsoft announce their next console.

I'm just saying the power in the console is what is going to hold it back with developers in a few years. Any Nintendo will end up launching another console in 5-6 years, when Sony and Microsoft will hold off for about 8-10 years.

Hm, I think Iget your point and I kind of agree with you. But I still think the WiiU at least has a chance to recieve a good 3rd-party support in the future. The Wii was massively underpowered last gen and thus never even had a chance to recieve most of the multiplats, since the Wii-Version almost had to be programmed from scratch. The WiiU however has more than enough power for the recent multiplatform games and converting the games does not seem to be that complicated according to statements from developers we already have (too lazy to search for sources right now, it is ~1 AM here in Germany^^). While many big multiplatform games this year are not announced for the WiiU (yet?), I´m pretty confident that this year´s iteration of CoD, Fifa etc. will all be similar in quality to the "big" releases (no rushed ports!), having the same release date and a bigger userbase will give the WiiU a much needed chance. IF the WiiU versions manage to have a similar attachment rate to the PS360, 3rd party support for 2014 should be secured.

Regarding PS4/Xbox720: At least according to recent rumors PS4 won´t be much stronger than the WiiU, making ports at least possible. Additionally the new engines (UE4, Cry Engine 3) seem to be scaleable, further reducing the difficulty of a port. Although I don´t really like the comparison it seems to fit, it should be like a game with "Very High" details compared to "High" details -> nothing too bad

Also, at the time the PS4/Xbox720 release the WiiU should have a pretty good userbase, increasing the priority of it. Additionally the PS4/Xbox720 will have tp fight against the 140 Mio+ userbase of the last generation, so at least in the year after launch many big games will still be on these platforms. If WiiU managed to fullfill my 1st prediction, it should recieve these games too, there won´t be a disadvantage to the PS4/Xbox720.

Conclusion: I get your point, but I only can partially agree with it.



Man, I could write a book on the number of things Nintendo did wrong. Hell, they created their own worst enemy and then handed them the market back in the 90's. Every console they release has a built in HUGE flaw. I could go on and on.

Lucky for them, they always do one thing right and that's why they're still around, today.



nintendo should have bought Rare before microsoft, not for the studios, but for the IP"s. Banjo Kazooie should return to it's home, where it will be loved and embraced.



Bet with ninjablade:

Ninjablade wins if the next 5 multiplat on the wii u are inferior to the 360 version.

I win if one of the 5 mulitplats are on par or superior on the Wii U.

let squaresoft slip through their fingers



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