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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How many 10 Million sellers will the Wii U have?

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Mandalore76 said:
Gamerace said:
Mandalore76 said:

I keep hearing people bash the Gamepad as a "non-innovation".  Having used the Gamepad, not just for gaming, but for everything else it can do on the system, it tremendously impoves your experience interfacing with the console and all it's capabilities.  In my opinion, not using a Gamepad controller on any other next gen system will feel like a step backwards at this point.

It's a non-innovation because Nintendo has long admitted to having considered this very idea for Wii (based off DS's success) but for various reasons decided it wouldn't be a good idea.   They went with the Wiimote instead which won them the generation hands-down.

So what do they do with WiiU?  Enhance or reimagine motion controls? No.  Add something else (halograms? head tracking?) to make it even more immersive? No. Surprise us with something totally new?  No.   The pick up the disgarded 7 year old idea, brush it off and call it a day.   

This is non-innovative.  6 years ago, it would have seemed like a DS home console but would still be seen as a lot more novel than it is today when people already own multiple touch screen devices.  Now it comes across as a poor 'me-too' instead of something original.

Plus what happened to motion controls?  After revolutioning the industry and creating all new types of game play they are just tossing it aside (mostly)?  This is folly.  This allows MS to carry that banner going forward, (while apeing much of the gamepads features via Smartglass) and taking some of Wii's audience with it.

Have you personally used a Wii U?  The motion controls are still there.  The Wii motes are compatible, the only console I know of that you don't have to go out and buy all new controllers for.  And, the Gamepad itself utilizes motion controlls which is evident from the very pack-in title (Nintendoland) that comes with the Deluxe package.   So, motion controlls have not been kicked aside for a "7 year old idea".  For me, it's not like having a DS home console, it's like having a console packed with a mini laptop.

Basic motion control is a standard in all devices now.  Phones, tablets, game controllers.  PS3 had it, 3DS has it, Vita.  I fully expect all next gen controllers will have it and some touch functionality as standard features, so the fact that it's in the gamepad is practically irrelevant.  The wiimote and nunchuk allowed a range of movement that the gamepad (which is more tilt) can't match.  You can't swing the gamepad like a tennis rack, sword or baseball bat for example.  You can't drum with it like you did with Wiimote/nunchuk.  You can't aim it like a gun. Etc, etc.  It's taken away that viseralness which sold so many Wii's (and Kinect and Moves).

As for using wiimotes, WiiU does allow use of them but unless the game is multiplayer where it's forced, most games will not support the use of wiimote/nunchuk.  If they all did, I'd be thrilled.   IR aiming on Mass Effect would be great, and the possiblilities with Assassin's Creed sword fighting from the guys who made Red Steel 2!  Or ZombiiU!  But alas - no wiimote compatibility.  CoD and Pikmin 3 do but that's the only ones I know of (with single player).  So yes, for all effect and purposes, it has been kicked aside.   Wii also had support for the gamecube controller but how many games actually supported it?  A few, but not many.

Why revolutionize an industry and then go backwards?  It's equivelant to Apple introducing a iPhone with a keypad.  Yes, some people would be thrilled to have a iPhone with keypad, just as some are to see the dual analog return on WiiU, but it's still a step backwards.     In my opinion, a touch surface and/or screen could have been incorporated in a modified wiimote design.  In fact a touch surface on a wiimote / nunchuk would eliminate some buttons and add greater immersion.   A small screen could be on a wiiUmote or it could be seperate altogether allow you to still swing freely.    Yes, I know, you can do that with WiiU but the gamepad isn't designed for it and very few games will be designed for the required use of two seperate controllers (Possibly Tiger Woods PGA tour since the wiimote was so beneficial and the gamepad could be used as a tee - but really, that would add very little, I doubt most people would bother with the gamepad for a tee.  WiiU Fit will probably alternate).   Games will be designed around the gamepad, not the wiimote.  Largely because WiiU will get PS3/360 ports (poss PS4/720) which are all based on dual analog.  It's easier to port to the gamepad and slap a map or such on the gamepad screen.  We're already seeing that in some games now.  

Where Wii had poorer graphics but often superior (and more fun) controls, WiiU will not have that distinction.  It'll be the same controls, with maybe some tacked on use of the gamepad screen - which in most cases will be very minor and skipable.  Maybe some great uses of the gamepad will come along for Madden or such, we'll see.  But more likely WiiU will have the same controls but still poorer graphics (to PS4/720).  

Oh the other hand, Nintendo could have made the gamepad a full-on tablet, with multi-touch and Android operating system.  Then games could be streamed from WiiU to gamepad via internet and you could take it anywhere.  That would be a huge incentive for people to get a WiiU!  Best of both worlds!  But no, they didn't go there either.



 

Gamerace said:

Basic motion control is a standard in all devices now.  Phones, tablets, game controllers.  PS3 had it, 3DS has it, Vita.  I fully expect all next gen controllers will have it and some touch functionality as standard features, so the fact that it's in the gamepad is practically irrelevant.  The wiimote and nunchuk allowed a range of movement that the gamepad (which is more tilt) can't match.  You can't swing the gamepad like a tennis rack, sword or baseball bat for example.  You can't drum with it like you did with Wiimote/nunchuk.  You can't aim it like a gun. Etc, etc.  It's taken away that viseralness which sold so many Wii's (and Kinect and Moves).

As for using wiimotes, WiiU does allow use of them but unless the game is multiplayer where it's forced, most games will not support the use of wiimote/nunchuk.  If they all did, I'd be thrilled.   IR aiming on Mass Effect would be great, and the possiblilities with Assassin's Creed sword fighting from the guys who made Red Steel 2!  Or ZombiiU!  But alas - no wiimote compatibility.  CoD and Pikmin 3 do but that's the only ones I know of (with single player).  So yes, for all effect and purposes, it has been kicked aside.   Wii also had support for the gamecube controller but how many games actually supported it?  A few, but not many.

Why revolutionize an industry and then go backwards?  It's equivelant to Apple introducing a iPhone with a keypad.  Yes, some people would be thrilled to have a iPhone with keypad, just as some are to see the dual analog return on WiiU, but it's still a step backwards.     In my opinion, a touch surface and/or screen could have been incorporated in a modified wiimote design.  In fact a touch surface on a wiimote / nunchuk would eliminate some buttons and add greater immersion.   A small screen could be on a wiiUmote or it could be seperate altogether allow you to still swing freely.    Yes, I know, you can do that with WiiU but the gamepad isn't designed for it and very few games will be designed for the required use of two seperate controllers (Possibly Tiger Woods PGA tour since the wiimote was so beneficial and the gamepad could be used as a tee - but really, that would add very little, I doubt most people would bother with the gamepad for a tee.  WiiU Fit will probably alternate).   Games will be designed around the gamepad, not the wiimote.  Largely because WiiU will get PS3/360 ports (poss PS4/720) which are all based on dual analog.  It's easier to port to the gamepad and slap a map or such on the gamepad screen.  We're already seeing that in some games now.  

Where Wii had poorer graphics but often superior (and more fun) controls, WiiU will not have that distinction.  It'll be the same controls, with maybe some tacked on use of the gamepad screen - which in most cases will be very minor and skipable.  Maybe some great uses of the gamepad will come along for Madden or such, we'll see.  But more likely WiiU will have the same controls but still poorer graphics (to PS4/720).  

Oh the other hand, Nintendo could have made the gamepad a full-on tablet, with multi-touch and Android operating system.  Then games could be streamed from WiiU to gamepad via internet and you could take it anywhere.  That would be a huge incentive for people to get a WiiU!  Best of both worlds!  But no, they didn't go there either.


The gamepad was not an idea that was discarded 6 years ago.  It was something that was conceived of as an add-on for the Wii.  Realizing that not everyone purchases add-on's for their systems, they decided to build their next system around it, because they wanted to create an experience that everyone who owned the console would share.  This isn't the first time they did that.  The Wii-mote was originally conceived as an add-on for the Gamecube.  Knowing that not all Gamecube owners or future Gamecube purchasers would buy the Wii-mote as an accessory, they built the Wii around it.  So, it's not a 6 year old idea that was discarded and then later dusted off as you claim.  It's something that evolved over time.  Evolving since the Gamecube as a matter of fact.  I had the cable that connected my Gameboy Advance to the Gamecube for playing Pacman Vs. which allowed the GBA to function in a similar fashion to one of the Gamepad's functions now.  I thought that was extremely innovative when I played it, and I'm glad they continued to work on evolving that idea and seeing it through to fruition.

I don't think that just because they built the Wii around motion controls that EVERY console Nintendo now develops has to focus on that as the center experience of the console.  Are you saying that if Playstation Move is not the default controller that comes packed-in with the PS4, then Sony is taking a step-backwards?



Nintendoland will be a 10m+ seller, because it is bundled.

NSMBU will probably be bundled at some point, so this should rather be a question of when, not if it will break 10m.

Smash Bros and Mario Kart should hit the 10m mark as well. So my answer would be at least 4, probably more.



Probably NintendoLand, since it is bundled with some consoles.



 Been away for a bit, but sneaking back in.

Gaming on: PS4, PC, 3DS. Got a Switch! Mainly to play Smash

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mysticwolf said:
Probably NintendoLand, since it is bundled with some consoles.

Oh, ye of little faith! They'll have at the very least 4 10 million sellers!



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

DanneSandin said:
mysticwolf said:
Probably NintendoLand, since it is bundled with some consoles.

Oh, ye of little faith! They'll have at the very least 4 10 million sellers!

Yes, I will admit I am a bit skeptical against the Wii U. But if anyone can make it successful, its Nintendo.



 Been away for a bit, but sneaking back in.

Gaming on: PS4, PC, 3DS. Got a Switch! Mainly to play Smash

Mandalore76 said:
Gamerace said:

Basic motion control is a standard in all devices now.  Phones, tablets, game controllers.  PS3 had it, 3DS has it, Vita.  I fully expect all next gen controllers will have it and some touch functionality as standard features, so the fact that it's in the gamepad is practically irrelevant.  The wiimote and nunchuk allowed a range of movement that the gamepad (which is more tilt) can't match.  You can't swing the gamepad like a tennis rack, sword or baseball bat for example.  You can't drum with it like you did with Wiimote/nunchuk.  You can't aim it like a gun. Etc, etc.  It's taken away that viseralness which sold so many Wii's (and Kinect and Moves).

As for using wiimotes, WiiU does allow use of them but unless the game is multiplayer where it's forced, most games will not support the use of wiimote/nunchuk.  If they all did, I'd be thrilled.   IR aiming on Mass Effect would be great, and the possiblilities with Assassin's Creed sword fighting from the guys who made Red Steel 2!  Or ZombiiU!  But alas - no wiimote compatibility.  CoD and Pikmin 3 do but that's the only ones I know of (with single player).  So yes, for all effect and purposes, it has been kicked aside.   Wii also had support for the gamecube controller but how many games actually supported it?  A few, but not many.

Why revolutionize an industry and then go backwards?  It's equivelant to Apple introducing a iPhone with a keypad.  Yes, some people would be thrilled to have a iPhone with keypad, just as some are to see the dual analog return on WiiU, but it's still a step backwards.     In my opinion, a touch surface and/or screen could have been incorporated in a modified wiimote design.  In fact a touch surface on a wiimote / nunchuk would eliminate some buttons and add greater immersion.   A small screen could be on a wiiUmote or it could be seperate altogether allow you to still swing freely.    Yes, I know, you can do that with WiiU but the gamepad isn't designed for it and very few games will be designed for the required use of two seperate controllers (Possibly Tiger Woods PGA tour since the wiimote was so beneficial and the gamepad could be used as a tee - but really, that would add very little, I doubt most people would bother with the gamepad for a tee.  WiiU Fit will probably alternate).   Games will be designed around the gamepad, not the wiimote.  Largely because WiiU will get PS3/360 ports (poss PS4/720) which are all based on dual analog.  It's easier to port to the gamepad and slap a map or such on the gamepad screen.  We're already seeing that in some games now.  

Where Wii had poorer graphics but often superior (and more fun) controls, WiiU will not have that distinction.  It'll be the same controls, with maybe some tacked on use of the gamepad screen - which in most cases will be very minor and skipable.  Maybe some great uses of the gamepad will come along for Madden or such, we'll see.  But more likely WiiU will have the same controls but still poorer graphics (to PS4/720).  

Oh the other hand, Nintendo could have made the gamepad a full-on tablet, with multi-touch and Android operating system.  Then games could be streamed from WiiU to gamepad via internet and you could take it anywhere.  That would be a huge incentive for people to get a WiiU!  Best of both worlds!  But no, they didn't go there either.


The gamepad was not an idea that was discarded 6 years ago.  It was something that was conceived of as an add-on for the Wii.  Realizing that not everyone purchases add-on's for their systems, they decided to build their next system around it, because they wanted to create an experience that everyone who owned the console would share.  This isn't the first time they did that.  The Wii-mote was originally conceived as an add-on for the Gamecube.  Knowing that not all Gamecube owners or future Gamecube purchasers would buy the Wii-mote as an accessory, they built the Wii around it.  So, it's not a 6 year old idea that was discarded and then later dusted off as you claim.  It's something that evolved over time.  Evolving since the Gamecube as a matter of fact.  I had the cable that connected my Gameboy Advance to the Gamecube for playing Pacman Vs. which allowed the GBA to function in a similar fashion to one of the Gamepad's functions now.  I thought that was extremely innovative when I played it, and I'm glad they continued to work on evolving that idea and seeing it through to fruition.

I don't think that just because they built the Wii around motion controls that EVERY console Nintendo now develops has to focus on that as the center experience of the console.  Are you saying that if Playstation Move is not the default controller that comes packed-in with the PS4, then Sony is taking a step-backwards?

I'm not making that up.  It's a well established fact.

"The Nintendo DS is said to have influenced the Wii's design. Designer Ken'ichiro Ashida noted, "We had the DS on our minds as we worked on the Wii. We thought about copying the DS's touch-panel interface and even came up with a prototype." The idea was eventually rejected because of the notion that the two gaming systems would be identical. Miyamoto also stated, "[...] if the DS had flopped, we might have taken the Wii back to the drawing board."["

The original design for dual screen (like DS) was rejected for three reasons: 1) As stated it would have made Wii too similar to DS. 2) They wanted to expand the audience and they realized the complexities of controllers disswayed any non-gamer from playing games.  3) The inventor of what would become the wiimote walked into their offices (after being rejected by MS and Sony) and Iwata realized that was what they were looking for.    By early 2005 they had working wiimotes (but deemed they weren't ready to show at E3 that year).   That means the original dual touch screen idea was disgarded in 2004.

So a full 8 years later, they are now parading it around as the next thing - despite having all the same problems as it did in 2004.  In fact, far more now.  That isn't innovation.   That's called DESPERATION from a company that is bankrupt of ideas.    Everything in WiiU is rehashed.   All the Nintendoland games are rehashes of earlier games, NSMBU is the 4th kick of the game without any innovation behind it.  It could just as easily be on Wii.   Wii Fit U?  Pikmin 3?  Wario?  Where's the Wii Sports/Fit/Music type innovation?   It's not there.  Where's the blue ocean strategy that made Wii hugely successful?  Not there.

Nintendo has abandoned the very prinicipals that led to Wii's success and gone back to it's old behaviours. It's has since 2009 really.  Sales will do likewise.

As for Sony....

Sony made it's mark with the PS1 by going after the mature gamer.  That is their focus even today.  They were much more family - friendly with the PS2 but this generation PS3 is the least family friendly console out.  Family games (Lego, etc) sell far less on PS3 than Wii or 360.  Even Sony's Move accessory was aimed more at the mature market.    That market is very well entrenched in using the dual analog controller, for them to goto a Move only option would be disasterous.  But since Move was only a half-hearted add-on, staying dual-analog wouldn't really be backwards for them.

Having said that.  The next Xbox definitely has a much enhanced Kinect.  Sony meanwhile has patented a hybrid Move/dual analog controller.  No word yet on what PS4 will use but if they go with that then WiiU suddenly has the worse option for motion controls.  That is going backwards.



 

Somehwere between 0 and 175... Just to be safe.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Gamerace said:

I'm not making that up.  It's a well established fact.

"The Nintendo DS is said to have influenced the Wii's design. Designer Ken'ichiro Ashida noted, "We had the DS on our minds as we worked on the Wii. We thought about copying the DS's touch-panel interface and even came up with a prototype." The idea was eventually rejected because of the notion that the two gaming systems would be identical. Miyamoto also stated, "[...] if the DS had flopped, we might have taken the Wii back to the drawing board."["

The original design for dual screen (like DS) was rejected for three reasons: 1) As stated it would have made Wii too similar to DS. 2) They wanted to expand the audience and they realized the complexities of controllers disswayed any non-gamer from playing games.  3) The inventor of what would become the wiimote walked into their offices (after being rejected by MS and Sony) and Iwata realized that was what they were looking for.    By early 2005 they had working wiimotes (but deemed they weren't ready to show at E3 that year).   That means the original dual touch screen idea was disgarded in 2004.

So a full 8 years later, they are now parading it around as the next thing - despite having all the same problems as it did in 2004.  In fact, far more now.  That isn't innovation.   That's called DESPERATION from a company that is bankrupt of ideas.    Everything in WiiU is rehashed.   All the Nintendoland games are rehashes of earlier games, NSMBU is the 4th kick of the game without any innovation behind it.  It could just as easily be on Wii.   Wii Fit U?  Pikmin 3?  Wario?  Where's the Wii Sports/Fit/Music type innovation?   It's not there.  Where's the blue ocean strategy that made Wii hugely successful?  Not there.

Nintendo has abandoned the very prinicipals that led to Wii's success and gone back to it's old behaviours. It's has since 2009 really.  Sales will do likewise.

As for Sony....

Sony made it's mark with the PS1 by going after the mature gamer.  That is their focus even today.  They were much more family - friendly with the PS2 but this generation PS3 is the least family friendly console out.  Family games (Lego, etc) sell far less on PS3 than Wii or 360.  Even Sony's Move accessory was aimed more at the mature market.    That market is very well entrenched in using the dual analog controller, for them to goto a Move only option would be disasterous.  But since Move was only a half-hearted add-on, staying dual-analog wouldn't really be backwards for them.

Having said that.  The next Xbox definitely has a much enhanced Kinect.  Sony meanwhile has patented a hybrid Move/dual analog controller.  No word yet on what PS4 will use but if they go with that then WiiU suddenly has the worse option for motion controls.  That is going backwards.

 

You and I disagree greatly on the concept of what innovation is.  You can talk to me about touch screens on iphones, and ipads and tablets until you are blue in the face, but as far as I am concerned, they are not part of the conversation when it comes to console gaming.  So, how long the technology has been out is irrelevant if the Wii U is the first console ever to adapt the technology for home console gaming.  The people who buy an iphone didn't say to themselves, I'd like to go out and get myself the latest gaming device today.  No, those people were in the market for the most advance cell phone they could buy, and one of the applications is that it can also play games.  Much like the 3DS has a camera application (which I have made great use of on my trips), but Nintendo doesn't claim to have sold 23 million+ cameras in the past year and a half, and no bought a 3DS primarily to replace their digital camera (by the way, in bad indoor lighting the 3DS camera is indeed not good, but outdoors I have taken great pictures with it).  Same with tablets.  While 84% of people surveyed who own tablets might say they play games on it, I doubt they purchased the tablet with that as their primary use for it.  At least, I don't know anyone who was in the market for a portable gaming device and said, I'd best purchase a tablet for that. 

Anyway, you can call the Gamepad a move of desperation if you wish.  I prefer to see the "innovative" applications it offers the gamer to streamline their experience interfacing with the console.  Having used the Gamepad in conjunction with the Wii U myself, I cannot imagine using a D-pad/Circle Pad to move a cursor/highlight tabs on the screen as opposed to the simplicity of swiping the Gamepad's touch screen with a stylus.  If I have to do that in 2013/2014 on another system while accessing on-screen menus, I would consider that a step-backwards in time.